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5.4 Subtlety Reborn


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#21 Layke

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:54 PM

Hey Maeko, I was looking at your logs, and was curious how you did so well. Any tips you could pass along? There's such little info about this spec, but I really want to play it well and am looking for anyone who knows what they're doing!

#22 Speaker

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

Dashboard - 28-09 19:33 - A S Y L U M - World of Logs
Dashboard - 28-09 17:26 - A S Y L U M - World of Logs

Here are a couple of my logs. Not bad, considering I'm only in LFR gear. Anyway I'm going to try to get some info going.

My opener is as follows: Ambush > SnD > Hemo > Ambush. At that point Subterfuge has worn off and you will want to start your normal rotation.

Priority is as follows:

If <1 second on SnD cast SnD
If <8 combo points and hemo debuff is <3 seconds cast hemo
If =>5 combo points and find weakness is up cast eviscerate
If =>5 combo points points and rupture is <2 seconds cast rupture
If =>8 combo points cast eviscerate
else cast backstab

That is the rotation that I have come up with. Most of it seems self-explanatory. But yeah, took me awhile to realize that rupture is a waste when you have find weakness up since it isn't going to benefit from the dmg like eviscerate. Sometimes the rotation will be different and needs some last second decisions. Like you refresh hemo before you eviscerate even when find weakness is up if you are still going to have enough time to get the eviscerate off before the buff wears off. I just didn't think it was necessary to over-complicate the rotation. For the opener I was only able to squeeze in a max of 2 ambushes. Last, you want to try and hold onto those anticipation stacks because often rupture and SnD will fall off at the same time. Having those reserves allows you to keep both of them refreshed without ever having to let them fall off.

Cooldown management. Always make sure you have <7 combo points before you vanish and <6 before you do blades + dance. That way you can get your first ambush off and eviscerate with find weakness buff without capping combo points. Personally, before ever popping cooldowns I would also wait until my hemo, rupture, and slice were all refreshed. That would give me the most amount of time where I could spam ambush and eviscerates while find weakness was up. Wait until find weakness wears off, pool your energy up, and then cast shadow dance + shadow blades. Start off with an ambush, and try and squeeze as many ambushes and eviscerates in as possible. Right before the buff fades refresh find weakness with one last ambush. Then once find weakness wears off again, and rupture, SnD, and hemo are refreshed again, pool your energy and vanish and start from the beginning. If for some reason shadow blades and shadow dance were out of sync by more than 10 seconds I would not wait to pop them simultaneously because I feel like this is probably a dps loss. I can't confirm that, but it seems probable. Last I am unsure if popping shadow blades with shadow dance is necessarily a dps increase. Shadowcraft says it is so I'll assume that it is right.

Macros that I made for sub:

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 10
/cast Ambush

#showtooltip Vanish
/cast Vanish
/cast Ambush
/startattack

#showtooltip
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance:0] Backstab
/cast [stance:1/2/3] Ambush
/cast Premeditation

The first two allow you to spam your cooldown key and get your ambush off without delay and wasting gcd time. The last one I have bound to the same key on my stealth and out of stealth bars. I made this one because wow has a delay between the bar changing when shadow dancing and vanishing which means it will backstab instead of ambush on the first cast. I think this macro solves that issue, as well as automates premed. I thought of putting premed on the vanish and shadow dance macros, but that can be bad because you might cap combo points. This way you spam the cooldown macros to get your first ambush and then eviscerate with the find weakness buff to prevent your anticipation stacks from capping. Then start spamming your main ability with the premed attached.

For aoe, unlike assassination, you will want to cast crimson tempest at 5 combo points. Anytime you are aoeing you will want the Glyph of Sharp Knives.

I'd be happy for anyone to critique me. This is literally my first day playing subtlety for raiding since I can't remember and I am still learning a lot myself. Anyways, good luck to all those learning this spec. It is much stronger than combat or assassination at the moment.

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#23 YzeroXY

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:32 AM

In case you need more logs, here are some from my guild. Only Friday and Saturday are main raid logs, as we only raid those two days a week. For some reason more than one person is logging, and therefore logs are fragmented at times.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Things to note:

- Played subtlety on all bosses except for Garrosh (passed the spot)
- As expected, the spec is not as good on multitarget fights, but I found it to be viable and it exceeded my expectations even on those
- There are a few annoying bosses that turn around randomly when targeting players with certain abilities, which can be very frustrating during ShD or high haste situations
- I've used Rune of Re-origination (549) on all fights, all stats reforged as closely as possible, with haste being prevalent
- As powerful as the trinket seems to be, it's very clunky in practice. When it procs during heroism, you can easily cap energy (t16 2-set doesn't help, either), and you need to avoid using SnD during the proc (as it becomes weaker due to having 0 mastery), which is not always possible
- 25M raids seem to be having major input lag and fps drop issues for many people. I don't have the best PC around, but I've never had issues before ToT, and pretty much everyone in my guild is complaining about input lag. For me personally, first 30-40 seconds of the fight are barely playable, and optimal play is just out of the question for that period
- Having played assassination since the start of MoP, and not touching subtlety since DS, I felt there was a lot I could improve when it comes to my performance

In the end, from my limited experience, the single target dps that subtlety now provides is so good that it managed to outshine even specs with very strong cleave/aoe potential on something like Dark Shamans (where you dps 4 targets until shamans reach 80% HP, 2 targets until 70%, and then proceed with single target dps until the end). Our kill was fairly chaotic, but there was a decent try where my steady single target dps (I did not cleave/aoe at all) caught up with and outdpsed the specs with high initial burst.

And lastly, there is always an argument to be made about how much cleave do you really need on certain fights. Usually a lot of it is just padding, and in such cases subtlety rogue can simply focus on the boss. For bosses where killing an add very fast is a must, subtlety still excels with it's burst.

#24 Layke

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

Here are my logs from this week. Bear in mind that these were my first two nights playing the spec since Cataclysm, so there was a lot of room for learning. That being said, I've since gotten the spec down a bit better and have seen a HUGE increase over Assassination and Combat in terms of pure single target damage.

Sha of Pride - Damage Done - 25-09 21:08 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

Iron Juggernaut - Damage Done - 25-09 21:08 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

*Note about IJ, I missed one of the Shock Pulses and got blasted back half way across the room. Lost probably around 10 seconds and my damage suffered greatly for this. Until that point, I was around 310k.

General Nazgrim - Damage Done - 25-09 21:08 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

Malkorok - Damage Done - 25-09 21:08 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

Thok - Damage Done - 26-09 21:14 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

Siegecrafter - Damage Done - 26-09 21:14 - Celestial Rebirth heals - World of Logs

So, overall, solid numbers that surpassed my previous week as Mutilate. Also, as I said, these were my two first nights learning the spec, so I expect next week for them to be even higher. Overall, the spec plays really well and pushes out some serious numbers. Having another Rogue present to tricks you when you pop ShD is an insane boost. I saw over a million DPS burst frequently.

#25 Pathal

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:37 PM

I think that's enough posting of logs. There's a few quirks I found.

- From a discussion with someone earlier during PTR, I was under the impression that it was impossible to saturate ShD with GCDs. I took their word for it so I could use simpler code. Turns out that's not true. It's already been fixed but won't show up anywhere until I find a better solution for FW.
- FW uptime is a little high, I'm looking into finding a better way to calculate this right.

What impact does this have on gearing? Probably next to zero. FW is effectively a damage modifier that applies to the majority of the damage, damage modifiers rarely have any meaningful impact on EP weights. The ShD GCD concern amounted to <1% DPS. Overall impact on DPS is probably a couple %, but shouldn't be major. I don't think Sub will have any >5% theoretical lead over the other specs.

#26 Ascari

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:33 PM

So, I ran a test on some raid dummies with and without rupture. With rupture i did 12.6mil damage in 2 min, without rupture and only hemo (with the glyph) i did 14.8mil damage in 2 min.

I'm still undecided, I was hoping someone with better gear and more knowledge of the class would answer me, perhaps it's worth not using Rupture and instead spamming Evis if you have the glyph and just keep Hemo up for the SV.

It seems to be a gain...i really won't be able to tell unless i do some more raiding on things like Jug, i seem to get best numbers on Jug. :D

#27 Speaker

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:16 PM

Yes, rupture is a dps gain, and just from some paper math it seems to be a lot better than eviscerate. During my General Nazgrim attempts my average non-crit rupture was 22.7k dmg, and with 2 piece tier that is 14 ticks, so 318k dmg per rupture (ignoring crits). The average eviscerate non-crit was 177k dmg. The difference is about the same if you look at average crit dmg. Going through the logs of all attempts my highest dmg rupture tick was 81.9k dmg, so 1,146k dmg. My highest eviscerate was 950k. Also take into account that eviscerates are benefiting from find weakness, so when find weakness is not active rupture is going to have an even bigger lead over eviscerate.

Now what I am not sure of is if eviscerate should have a higher priority over rupture while find weakness is active or not. I'm starting to think it is better to prioritize refreshing rupture over everything else, except for probably slice and dice.

Also, shadowcraft is suggesting to use shadow blades during shadow dance, which to me, gives you maybe 1 or 2 more eviscerates while find weakness is up, but completely negates the bonus that it makes your autoattacks ignore armor because of find weakness. It just doesn't seem worth it to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

#28 phup

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:36 PM

the problem is that by the time your first FW fades, and then your shadowdance FW fades and then your vanish FW fades, you've delayed shadowblades by like a minute which is a very long delay for a strong cd with a 2.x minute cooldown (assuming assurance trinket). That long a delay will almost always cost you one use of that cooldown during the fight. I would say you definitely use shadowblades during your first dance. If you can weave it after the first one without having to delay any of your cooldowns significantly, that may be a gain, but most of the top parses I have looked at so far, they line SB up with dance even later in the fight but that may just be habit from t15 4pc.

Now that i'm playing sub on most of the single target fights, i plan to mess around with the SimC action list and see how dps compares between current setup and making sure they don't overlap. I'll post anything interesting here if someone hasn't already.

#29 Thuzada

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

#showtooltip
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast [stance:0] Backstab
/cast [stance:1/2/3] Ambush
/cast Premeditation


I'd be happy for anyone to critique me. This is literally my first day playing subtlety for raiding since I can't remember and I am still learning a lot myself. Anyways, good luck to all those learning this spec. It is much stronger than combat or assassination at the moment.

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Hey there, I only have a few things to say, first of all your explanation of the basic subtlety rotation was very good. In my experience it is extremely difficult to pin down and explain every single priority/optimization of the spec and I think you've done a good job.

I have one small issue with your spam-macro, and I'm not even sure if I'm right, but I believe that if you cast premeditation with 4-5 CP, the two points that you should be getting don't add to your anticipation stacks. This means that you should be putting the premeditation above the ambush/backstab, if that works.

Anyone not aware of weakauras/powerauras should immediately get the addon. It allows you to monitor all the things a rogue could need (FW buff, Rupture duration, SnD, Trinket procs, Cooldowns, CPs, Energy, anything at all with a spellID) And it allows you to customize how it shows up on your UI. It has a bit of a learning curve but it might only take a half hour or so to completely change over to it.

Another general point that a lot of people are sticking with is that Shadow Dance should never be used with FW buff up, however with the new rogue tier this could actually cause significant delays to your CD use. I haven't been able to test this since I don't have the privilege of any tier gear at the moment, but it was estimated back in the PTR that FW uptimes could be close to 100%. In the case of very high FW uptimes I think that Vanish and Preparation should be saved for those rare downtimes.

To everyone looking to get into this spec, it is MUCH harder to pull off properly than assassination or combat, but it is definitely more rewarding. It also has the added bonus of doing comparable damage to the other specs with the most recent hotfix!

#30 phup

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

I don't think Sub will have any >5% theoretical lead over the other specs.


In the latest SimC, Sub BiS single target is a solid 11% ahead of Assassination BiS (and 3.5% ahead of combat). I'm sure the gearing and reforging will get tweaked but I doubt that gap will close by much. I see a similar gap when I sim my own gear at a more modest 550ish item level.

That doesn't translate 1 to 1 for real world given sub's issues, but it's still too big a number to ignore on any encounters that are primarily single target fights.

#31 nordveien

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:27 PM

Just to make sure, can you now correctly compare projected damage between specs in Shadowcraft?

If I'm not mistaken, during ToT it wasn't working that way, for instance it constantly showed Combat with 4pc much higher than Assn with similar gear, and in reality it simply wasn't the case. Someone mentioned on these forums at that time that you cannot compare dps between specs using ShC, only dps within a single spec (for example when comparing two pieces of gear).

#32 Pathal

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

I would advise against it.

Hopefully soon, you should be able to look at Combat and Sub that way and get an idea of which has better performance for what gear you have available, but I wouldn't do that now. And definitely not with Assassination.

#33 Pjaddnave

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:30 AM

Hello.

Yesterday i tried out Sub for the very first time in raidenviroment. And, i guess i didn't do that well..
Though im gone stick with it for thoose single targets fights and try to learn it better.
If somone would be so kind and give me some suggestion by looking on my logs i would be very glad since im totally new on this.

Also i like the previous posts in this thread, very informative and well written!

Dashboard - 03-10 21:02 - The Obsidian Order - World of Logs

#34 Speaker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:56 AM

For starters you need to start using glyph of vanish. Looking at your Sha of Pride kill you didn't take advantage of vanish once. This is a pretty big dps cooldown for subtlety. Rupture, and Hemo uptime could be slightly better. Make sure you always refresh rupture with 5 cps and at less than 2 seconds remaining and hemo at 3. Make sure you are getting the most out of find weakness as well. Don't pop another cooldown until find weakness has fallen off so you are getting the most amount of uptime on it. I don't think your logs were that bad though.

Just keep working at it. I've had to get a few additional addons just to try and keep track of everything.

#35 thatbadrogue

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:43 AM

I raided subt for heroics this week (didnt play it on malkorok because our strat revolves around me soaking transitions with our tanks.) The spec itself seems solid enough where I was competitive, but not phenomenal (most likely due to lack of familiarity).

Link to logs:
Dashboard - 01-10 20:04 - Anomaly - World of Logs

Obviously all the fights aren't on that one log and you'll have to go back to the weekly overview, but if curious you can take a look... if you see anything really f'ing bad, in terms of play i'd like you to tell me so i can attempt to remedy it, as i still have no combat weapon and will prob be playing sub next reset as well.

#36 Monco

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:16 AM

My opener is as follows: Ambush > SnD > Hemo > Ambush. At that point Subterfuge has worn off and you will want to start your normal rotation.


Don't forget to Premed before the pull and get SnD up before opening so are getting the energy return immediately. That way you don't waste any of the time you are in Master of Subtlety for the extra 10% damage by using a gcd and energy on a non-damaging finisher. It can make the opener a little more involved when you are trying to prepot, I'll sit stealthed targeting the boss, when the 10s pull timer comes up I'll Premed and immediately unstealth, and then at ~3s to pull I'll SnD, prepot, stealth and move into position for opener.

#37 Moefina

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:39 PM

Hi guys.

I worked on a macro for opening, works well for me, just wanted to know your opinion about this
#show
/cast Shadowstep
/cast Premeditation
/castsequence Garrote, Slice and Dice, Hemorrhage, Ambush
It focuses on getting FW and SV up, also I don't like casting SnD with just 2cp because I find myself still refreshing it while MoS is up.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my DPS, therefore I hope the Macro is not completely wrong. Just wanted to share.

#38 thatbadrogue

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

With Glyph of Hemo, SV isn't a problem and it seems like the GCD spent on Garrote would be better used in prolonging the FW an extra second or w/e to me, but that's completely unbacked by any math whatsoever so take that with a rather large spoonful of salt.

#39 Jurugar

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:42 PM

Before I get started, I wanted to point out that, after some digging, I've come to the conclusion that simcraft isn't handling the Master of Subtlety buff correctly, and is undervaluing our DPS because of it. No idea how to fix it, but maybe one of you can.

Normally I'd continue to just lurk on the forums, but since the spec is (relatively) young as far as this expansion goes, I thought I'd toss my HaT (get it?) into the ring and try to put all the correct information in one place, as well as some of my own insight.

Gear
Helm:
Neck:
Shoulders:
Chest:
Bracers:
Gloves:
Belt:
Legs:
Feet:
Ring 1:
Ring 2:
Trinket 1:
Trinket 2:
Weapon MH:
Weapon OH:

Stat Weights
Agility: 4.010
Yellow Hit: 3.301
Expertise: 2.934
Haste: 1.799
Crit: 1.696
Mastery: 1.680
White Hit: 1.010
Mainhand Dps: 4.666
Offhand Dps: 0.806

T16 2pc: 3021.017
T16 4pc: 1471.888

Sims out at 436.7k DPS with Pandaren Racial and two static agility professions. Gear/Stat Weights are tentative.

Talents:
T1: Subterfuge
T2: Combat Readiness (optional)
T3: Elusiveness (optional but very strongly recommended)
T4: Shadowstep (optional but very very strongly recommended)
T5: Prey on the Weak (optional)
T6: Anticipation

The only really mandatory ones are Subterfuge in T1 and Anticipation in T6. Subterfuge because it allows you additional ambushes after breaking stealth to extend the Find Weakness debuff and also extends your Master of Subtlety buff for the duration, and Anticipation because it allows you to capture combo points from Honor Among Thieves that would normally go to waste, and also pool combo points for when Find Weakness is up for additional Eviscerates.

For the other tiers, you can pick what you want, but Elusiveness in T3 is very strong for general fight survival (especially when combined with Glyph of Feint), and Shadowstep in T4 is a staple for most rogues, but T2-T5 come down to playstyle if you strongly prefer one to another.

Glyphs:

Glyph of Vanish
Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins
Glyph of Feint/Redirect/Smoke Bomb

Glyph of Vanish and Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins are the only ones that are actually important to your damage. Glyph of Vanish extends your Subterfuge by an additional 3 seconds (though it doesnt extend your Master of Subtlety buff further), and Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins allows you leniency with not being required to maintain 100% rupture uptime during the fight for the Sanguinary Vein debuff, which gives you the freedom to use other finishers as you see fit.

The third Glyph is a preference call. I use Glyph of Feint because Feint is great, and therefore extending it by 2 seconds is even better. You can swap in Glyph of Smoke Bomb if your raid is hurting for mitigation cooldowns or Glyph of Redirect if you need to target swap often, though subtlety is not the best at target swapping fights because Find Weakness is a target-specific debuff.

In the end, your setup should look something like this:

Mists of Pandaria - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Rotation:


As for rotation, lot of people are getting the precombat part wrong, so let me start there:

Pre-Combat:

~15 seconds before pull (get as close to 18 as you can without going over, minimum of 7 seconds): Premeditation (from stealth) -> Unstealth -> Wait 1-2 seconds before pull -> Prepot + cast Slice and Dice -> Restealth -> Open

It's a little involved, but you'll want to cast Premeditation from stealth before pull to get Slice and Dice up, and you'll also need to be out of stealth to prepot, so you have to duck in/out/in of stealth.

Opener:

There are two options for openers, and it's somewhat unclear as of now which is better: a Garrote opener, or an Ambush opener.

Garrote Opener: Garrote -> Ambush -> Ambush
Ambush Opener: Ambush -> Hemorrhage -> Ambush

The Garrote opener costs 15 more energy, which makes it more difficult to pull off two Ambushes within the 3 second Subterfuge window (with 12,000+ haste I can't reliably pull it off on the target dummy without super micro-ing my Energetic Recovery procs). However, it has the benefit of immediately applying the Sanguinary Vein and Find Weakness debuffs, meaning both of your Ambushes benefit from both buffs, instead of your first benefiting from neither. In addition, the Hemorrhage you use to put up Sanguinary Vein would also not benefit from the buff, meaning you would either have a mediocre Hemorrhage dot or would have to spend more energy applying the correct one (which also effectively wastes the first one).

So basically, use the Garrote opener if you can (i.e. if you're going to use bloodlust on pull, or are very well geared with a lot of haste).

In Combat:

Things get a little dicey here, so I'll go into a general idea of what your mindset should be instead of a step-by-step list of what to do.

Your main combo point builder should be Backstab whenever possible (i.e. you can get behind your target), with Hemorrhage as your backup if you cant. You should use Hemorrhage to keep its bleed effect up, ideally during Find Weakness, because the bleed is based on the initial damage of the Hemorrhage it came from, which itself benefits from the armor penetration. During Shadow Blades, Backstab is replaced with Ambush.

For finishers, keep Slice and Dice up at all times, and keep Rupture up as much as possible, with Eviscerate as your finisher spam (obviously). Try to avoid reapplying Slice and Dice/Rupture during Find Weakness if timing allows, but do it anyway if they are falling off, with a lesser priority on Rupture. To make that a little more clear - it's worth it to push back Shadow Dance/Vanish by a few seconds to first reapply Slice and Dice/Rupture before applying the Find Weakness debuff; however, if the debuff is already out and Slice and Dice/Rupture is about to fall off, you should reapply it anyway.

Rupture vs Eviscerate during Find Weakness is a debate that requires someone with more free time (though admittedly writing this up took a while). Without Find Weakness, Rupture is the clear winner - it does 80-85% as much damage as Eviscerate (which would often be cut by an additional ~25% anyway because of armor mitigation) for 40% less energy. Even during Find Weakness, Rupture is more energy efficient...but then things get more complicated when the discussion shifts from removing Rupture entirely to simply delaying it during Find Weakness. There are times when you should delay rupture - an extreme example is if you have Rupture falling off and 5 CPs and 5 Anticipation charges with 1 second left on Find Weakness, then you can easily justify bumping the Rupture back a few seconds to snag the tail end of the debuff for the Eviscerate. However, what if that turns into 5 CPs +2 charges and 3 seconds left on Find Weakness? 4 CPs and 7 seconds left on Find Weakness? The answer is dynamic based on your combo points + charges, energy, time left on Find Weakness, and how many ticks of Rupture you'd lose. As a general rule of thumb, if you would lose 3 or more ticks of Rupture to use Eviscerate during Find Weakness, then it's probably not worth it.

Cooldowns can be another murky area. Shadow Dance is on a relatively low cooldown (especially with an Assurance of Consequence) and should be used virtually on cooldown to maintain high uptime of the Find Weakness debuff. It also replaces Backstab with a reduced-cost Ambush (-20 energy, to 40 energy cost). Because you have such high uptime of the Find Weakness buff, Shadow Blades loses some of its usefulness in overlap (with 100% armor penetration already on the target, the benefit of having shadow damage auto attacks is practically wiped out). However, the working assumption that is initially supported by Shadowcraft is that waiting to find an opening to use Shadow Blades is not worth the delayed usage of the CD, and that you should actually use it during Shadow Dance to increase your CP generation for more Eviscerate spam. During Shadow Dance, it is better to use an additional Ambush over applying/refreshing Hemorrhage.

For both Shadow Dance and Vanish, you should make sure to save enough energy to use one final Ambush at the end of the grace period (40 energy for Shadow Dance, 60 for Vanish). The purpose of this is to maximize your Find Weakness uptime (two Ambushes back to back only causes 11 combined seconds of Find Weakness, but two Ambushes 5 second apart causes 15 seconds). Assuming you took Glyph of Vanish (which you should), your Subterfuge buff will actually last 6 seconds instead of 3 (it will reapply itself after the first one runs out). Ambushing while the Find Weakness buff will give the Ambush the extra damage, so dont wait for the buff to fall off before reappying it with another Ambush.

As mentioned earlier, try to time your CDs out so that your Rupture and Slice and Dice are refreshed going into them, but dont avoid refreshing them should you need to. Additionally, you should be pooling energy/CPs for Shadow Dance and Vanish (and T16 4pc bonus procs when you get it) to get as many Ambushes/Eviscerates during the Find Weakness buff as possible, especially after a Vanish because your Master of Subtlety buff will be back up. You can also use Preparation to reset the cooldown of your Vanish, but don't be in a huge hurry to do so - most fights only last long enough to use a single Preparation (5min CD), so saving it for later isnt a waste of the CD.

Premeditation is best used on its own and not macroed into something else if you can manage it, but it is one more thing to manage in what is already the most complicated Rogue spec by a decent margin. The reason for this is Premeditation will not add to your Anticipation charges if used at 4+ combo points, so having it macroed in means you run the risk of losing those combo points (although if it's between macroing it in and not using it at all, macroing it in is obviously the better choice).

I'll add more as more info becomes available/uncovered

#40 Speaker

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:24 AM

I've worked out that by macroing ambush into my cooldowns that I can spam the cooldown macro initially, and once I have <=3 cps then I can start spamming my regular dmg macro with premed baked into it. That way there is no premed/cp wasting. Just in case you are lazy like me and don't want to have to worry about the added hassle of having premed on a separate bind.




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