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5.4 Subtlety Reborn


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#41 Pjaddnave

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

I've worked out that by macroing ambush into my cooldowns that I can spam the cooldown macro initially, and once I have <=3 cps then I can start spamming my regular dmg macro with premed baked into it. That way there is no premed/cp wasting. Just in case you are lazy like me and don't want to have to worry about the added hassle of having premed on a separate bind.


Is thoose the same macros you posted some days ago? or have you written new ones?

#42 Speaker

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Is thoose the same macros you posted some days ago? or have you written new ones?


Same macros, I just changed the intent on how to use them. Originally it was just for a quick-casted initial ambush if the GCD was free. But now I pretty much chain cast the cooldown macros until my CPs are low enough to where I can switch to my regular backstab/ambush macro without wasting the CPs from premed. Just a simple thing to free yourself from having to bind premed.

#43 Ascari

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

Before I get started, I wanted to point out that, after some digging, I've come to the conclusion that simcraft isn't handling the Master of Subtlety buff correctly, and is undervaluing our DPS because of it. No idea how to fix it, but maybe one of you can.

Normally I'd continue to just lurk on the forums, but since the spec is (relatively) young as far as this expansion goes, I thought I'd toss my HaT (get it?) into the ring and try to put all the correct information in one place, as well as some of my own insight.

Gear
Helm:
Neck:
Shoulders:
Chest:
Bracers:
Gloves:
Belt:
Legs:
Feet:
Ring 1:
Ring 2:
Trinket 1:
Trinket 2:
Weapon MH:
Weapon OH:

Stat Weights
Agility: 4.010
Yellow Hit: 3.301
Expertise: 2.934
Haste: 1.799
Crit: 1.696
Mastery: 1.680
White Hit: 1.010
Mainhand Dps: 4.666
Offhand Dps: 0.806

T16 2pc: 3021.017
T16 4pc: 1471.888

Thanks for doing that, I put together the same list, the only difference i have is that instead of if you take and then instead of provide better stats. You can reforge into hit and exp that you need.

You get a good amount more haste and mastery, a little less crit and maybe 50 less Agi. But I don't really run Sims so if you can check that I would appreciate it. I know it's all very subjective and it's such a minute little difference, but I like to have my BIS list for each patch :)

#44 Jurugar

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:19 PM

Thanks for doing that, I put together the same list, the only difference i have is that instead of if you take and then instead of provide better stats. You can reforge into hit and exp that you need.

You get a good amount more haste and mastery, a little less crit and maybe 50 less Agi. But I don't really run Sims so if you can check that I would appreciate it. I know it's all very subjective and it's such a minute little difference, but I like to have my BIS list for each patch :)


There are a couple permutations that come very close, really it's based on what you can actually get your hands on (and warforged if you're lucky). The setup you posted was one I tried and it sims ~100 DPS less than the one I listed.

Like I said, very close, but BIS is BIS even if the margin is really insignificant.

#45 Balthazor

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:39 PM

Is it worth it to delay using Shadowdance or Vanish until Premed is up, all other factors being equal (i.e., no bloodlust, no high damage burn phase on boss, etc)?

It seems with the reduced cooldown on our burst damage delaying use would end up being an overall damage loss over the course of a fight.

I think it makes sense to delay burst damage cooldowns for after FW has fallen off, but delaying just for an additional 2 CPs ... what do you guys think?

#46 Ascari

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

There are a couple permutations that come very close, really it's based on what you can actually get your hands on (and warforged if you're lucky). The setup you posted was one I tried and it sims ~100 DPS less than the one I listed.

Like I said, very close, but BIS is BIS even if the margin is really insignificant.


Yes I agree. Plus I'm not likely to get all heroic warforged let alone heroic BIS. However, this early in the patch, I know I can at least shoot for all warforged and some heroic BIS. And it feels good knowing that i'm squeezin the most possible out of my gear. Thanks for checking that for me :)

I don't delay, I pop ShD whenever it's up (unless FW is still up on the target).

#47 Jurugar

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:09 PM

Is it worth it to delay using Shadowdance or Vanish until Premed is up, all other factors being equal (i.e., no bloodlust, no high damage burn phase on boss, etc)?

It seems with the reduced cooldown on our burst damage delaying use would end up being an overall damage loss over the course of a fight.

I think it makes sense to delay burst damage cooldowns for after FW has fallen off, but delaying just for an additional 2 CPs ... what do you guys think?


My gut says no, Premeditation isn't the biggest deal and you can use it during Shadow Dance anyway so no reason to delay it. Vanish isnt so much about extra burst as it is keeping high uptime on Find Weakness, so a couple extra CPs are nice but wont make or break you.

Also, if you use Vanish/Shadow Dance-> Ambush with a sliver of time left on Find Weakness (i.e. 1 second or less), then that initial Ambush will benefit from the Find Weakness debuff and then reapply it.

#48 MrBluto

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:47 PM

For those of you tasked with killing Seige Engineers as Subtlety on Heroic Garrosh, I'll share what I've learned.

 

Out of stealth, open up with Garrote -> SnD -> Premed + Ambush -> Ambush -> Evis -> Backstab -> Evis

 

This will generally be enough to kill the first engineer if all of your trinkets are up and your engineer killing partner (or team) is worth their salt.  If your engineer team struggles to get him down before his cast finishes, you can use shadow blades with your first ambush to ensure enough CP for another Backstab -> Evis.  If this still isn't enough, consider shadow dancing and replacing each Backstab with Ambush (though it can lead to being energy starved as his cast is about to complete)

 

This is the only situation in this entire xpac (sans pvp) that I've found opening with Garrote to be advantageous for the subtlety opener. A single CP from garrote is more than enough time on SnD for the engineer. This minimizes the GCDs, Energy, and CP needed to get up a bleed effect, maximize Find Weakness, and start SnD.

 

If anybody else has a more effective way of killing the engineers as Subtlety, I'd more than welcome the information.



#49 Pivotstun

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:45 PM

5.4.7 Hotfixes: March 18

  • Resolved an issue where Vanish modified by Glyph of Vanish was incorrectly causing the Subterfuge effect to trigger twice. Vanish will now cancel its effect when the duration of Subterfuge expires.

 

I learned about this change today after having my rotation butchered in SoO yesterday not knowing what had happened. When removing Glyph of Vanish from Shadowcraft, I only see a DPS loss of 1660. I can't imagine the change being that insignificant in terms of overall DPS loss. Any thoughts?



#50 nordveien

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:20 PM

 

I can't imagine the change being that insignificant in terms of overall DPS loss.

What change do you mean here? Swapping out Glyph of Vanish or Blizzard resolving the bug? If the latter, I very much doubt that the occasional second Subterfuge proc, which was clearly a bug, was accounted for in Shadowcraft.



#51 Pathal

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:59 PM

It was added at the request of Haileaus sometime last year.

#52 nordveien

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:00 AM

Has anyone else noticed more T4 procs than usual this week? Not sure if it's just a crazy coincidence or something else.






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