Jump to content


Photo

Warlords of Draenor paladin discussion

Warlords Draenor paladin talents stats

  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#41 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 30 May 2014 - 09:12 AM

Some more numbers...

 

-Flash of Light nerfed to 185.3% SP, down from 218%.

-Word of Glory nerfed to 88.2% SP, down from 103.7%.

-Holy Prism damage nerfed to 120.58%, down from 141.86%. Healing down to 178.93% from 210.5%.

-Supplication changed: now gives +100% FoL healing and +50% crit chance, instead of just a guaranteed crit.

-Eternal Flame heals every 2 secs for 20 secs, down from every 3 secs for 30 secs. Direct heal is the same as WoG, but HoT is up from 9.43% SP to 16.03% SP.

 

-Holy Shield lets you block spells.

-Light's Hammer healing nerfed to 40.24%, down from 47.34%.

 

Plus a bunch of similar healing nerfs for Holy's dedicated healing spells.


Clear ether!


#42 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:20 PM

Major changes to WoD stats incoming:

 

-Amplify is gone. Expect to see on trinkets perhaps, as in SoO.

-Readiness is gone. Expect to see on trinkets perhaps, as in SoO.

 

-In their place is Versatility: +1% damage, healing, absorbs and +0.5% damage reduction. The plan is for it to be a good secondary stat, but (hopefully) never the best one. Also useful for hybrid-y hybrid classes/specs obviously, and I guess a top stat (THE top stat?) in PvP.

 

-In addition, the tertiary/minor Cleave stat is currently going to be retired, but may yet make it in.

 

 

Bit worrying that they announce these changes so late in the day (come on guys, don't you have spreadsheets & theorycrafting sessions earlier in the dev process :P ?), but better than nothing I suppose.


Clear ether!


#43 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:15 AM

Time for a few Ret set bonuses:

 

-PvP 2pc: 50% shorter CC duration when Avenging Wrath is active.

-PvP 4pc: Gain 1% damage & healing per HP spent for 8 secs (passive).

 

-T17 2pc: +10% CS damage.

-T17 4pc: Using TV or DS gives you +5% damage for 5 secs.

 

In other news, Seraphim increases Versatility instead of Readiness. Each spec also gets +5% of 1 stat from all sources: Holy gets +5% crit stat, Prot gets +5% Haste stat, Ret gets +5% Mastery stat.


Clear ether!


#44 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

A few more changes...

 

-Judgements of the Bold removed. The HP generated is folded into the base spell for Rets (but no more debuffing from it). Also Holy gets free Judgements.

-Tower of Radiance folded into Bacon of Light.

-Holy pallies have lost Seals of Righteousness & Truth.

-Sanctity Aura returns! It's a passive that grants 3% Versatility to the Ret pally & all allies within 100 yards. This buff is also brought by Arms & Fury warriors (Inspiring Presence), Frost & Unholy DKs (Unholy Aura), and Druids (MotW). Not sure why it's MotW but not BoK, but we'll see, maybe it's just a temporary thing.

-Spell Haste & Attack Speed Haste have been merged into one buff.


Clear ether!


#45 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 21 June 2014 - 09:59 AM

Ret T17 bonuses updated:

 

-2pc: Judgement has a chance to deal 10% of the total damage of your Censure damage to the target (says 101% chance ATM :P ).

-4pc: TV & DS have a 30% chance to let you use HoW regardless of the target's health (same buff name - Crusader's Fury).

 

In other news, Crusader Strike & HotR have lost their flat bonus damage. Also, Judgement of Insight (from Empowered Seals) only heals you for 3% of your max health (down from 5%) each time. Our multistrikes proc the Hand of Light Mastery (including the multistrikes from DS & HotR), and finally the tooltip for Sword of Light has been heavily reduced in length, but I can't see any actual changes to its effects listed.

 

What else... we're also getting Flasks for secondary stats it seems - 109 armour / crit / haste / mastery / multi-strike, plus spirit & stamina. May be an interesting direction to take flasks in WoD, instead of the usual Str/Agi/Int model we've had up until now, although it could to get very expensive for top end raiders if they have to use a new flask regularly to min/max for fights.


Clear ether!


#46 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:35 PM

Some minor changes for Rets:

 

-Harsh Words damage up from 88.2% SP to 264.59% SP.

-Word of Glory healing up from 88.2% SP to 264.59% SP.

-Divine Purpose appears to no longer have any duration, based on the tooltip.

 

Most of the rest seems to be wording changes.


Clear ether!


#47 Shando

Shando

    Glass Joe

  • New Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 10 July 2014 - 04:17 AM

Looks like they changed the 4pc to be the 2pc and created a new 4pc
 
Paladin T17 Retribution 2P Bonus
Using Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm has a 30% chance to empower you with Crusader's Fury.
Crusader's Fury allows the use of Hammer of Wrath regardless of your target's current health.
 

Paladin T17 Retribution 4P Bonus
Hammer of Wrath causes your next Exorcism to generate 3 Holy Power.


Edited by Shando, 10 July 2014 - 04:18 AM.


#48 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

Can't say I like that 4pc very much. Even ignoring the difference in cooldowns, it seems a bit clunky to have to cast one spell so as to get a benefit from a second like that.


Clear ether!


#49 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1822 posts

Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

Neither is very likeable.

 

At least they're a conscious attempt to shake up the priority.  Unfortunately it shows a woeful ignorance of Sanctified Wrath and Holy Avenger.  The first already provides the 2 piece bonus for its duration, and the second provides a hyper-amplified version of the 4 piece bonus for its duration.  Pretty sure 4 piece will make SW automatically the superior talent (if it isn't, already).

 

It's also cumbersome - either Exorcism remains a "filler" spell at lowest damage per cast (like present tier), or its damage is (relatively) increased, causing us to want to use it ASAP in order for more chances to proc the reset.  If we want to immediately place it on CD to proc the reset, that directly conflicts with trying to use it specifically after HoW.  Under 20% you want to match a 15 sec CD (with random resets) and a 6 sec CD - that doesn't gel well.

 

Also 2 piece becomes completely useless under 20% (or during AW if you use SW).  So between the two for roughly 30% of every fight you always have the effects.  I can almost feel a cue for a gimmick boss who starts at '20% max health' (which is equal to other bosses full health).

 

I'm first to acknowledge it's hard to come up with new set bonuses, but these don't seem to carry the standard 2.5%/5% total damage increase one historically expects from the bonuses.


Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#50 TerellinMisha

TerellinMisha

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 10 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

Another thing to consider with the "usefulness" of this 2p is the perk for HoW, which makes it usable at 35%... seems to be even more lackluster, because you figure on a 7 minute fight where you're getting 4 uses of wings, you're making the availability of this perk less than 50%? Unless of course I missed something and that perk was taken out.



#51 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:52 PM

I'm first to acknowledge it's hard to come up with new set bonuses, but these don't seem to carry the standard 2.5%/5% total damage increase one historically expects from the bonuses.

 

Yeah... honestly, would it really be so bad to recycle a few older set bonuses? Just going over the set bonuses for Rets on Wowhead ATM. We've had lots of both flat and % damage buffs in the past, and whilst boring, they do at least have the advantage of working. Plus there've been quite a few more interesting ones - CD reductions and the like, which might help shake up the rotation a bit too. Heck, if they want us to use Exo more they could double the proc chance for it to reset as a 2pc, then buff its damage as a 4pc.


Clear ether!


#52 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1822 posts

Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

 Heck, if they want us to use Exo more they could double the proc chance for it to reset as a 2pc, then buff its damage as a 4pc.

I'd immediately spitball "bonus damage when AoW procs", so you want it normally on CD so you get the AoW early version.

 

Or, hell, play around with the new stats.  2 or 4piece gives ability X a Y% (additional) multistrike chance.

 

TerellinMisha - I hadn't even thought of perks.  If it's still 35%, then 35% + 16% uptime on Wings does lead close to 50% (some Wings are under the 35% border, so it's probably closer to 45%).  That does indeed make the 2 piece bonus sound rather pathetic.

 

Oh, forgot to mention, if the 4piece is as responsive as past "bonus HP" procs, you've probably hit another button or two before your client even knows you gained the 3 HP.  So you could go past 5, depending on how you let HP pool, or you could be sitting out a GCD or so waiting for your client to acknowledge the HP so it will permit the TV you want to be pressing.


Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#53 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

A few more minor updates for Rets:

 

-T16 bonus is now when you *cast* Exorcism, not when AoW activates.

-The WoD 2pc PvP bonus is now CC reduction for 15 secs when you cast Avenging Wrath (was whilst AW was active).

 

-Seraphim buffed from 30% of your secondary gear stats to 50% of them.

-Final Verdict does 50% of its damage to enemies near the target when you have SoR active.

 

Prot also finally gets a proper Sanctified Wrath, with +100% Holy Wrath damage, and HP generated from Holy Wrath too.


Clear ether!


#54 Theck

Theck

    Don Flamenco

  • • Former Guide Author/Contributor
  • 304 posts

Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:47 PM

By the way, I believe I have Ret and Prot up-to-date in the wod branch of simcraft. If you guys want to do some testing with it and/or look for bugs, feel free. You'll find dated alpha builds here:

 

http://downloads.sim...ft.org/?C=M;O=D

 

Some notes: T17 profiles use the ilvl 660 PvP realm premade gear, because that's the only L100 gear we had last time I updated them. There have been minor tweaks to the prot and ret APLs, but they've in no way been re-optimized post-squish. So feel free to make suggestions and I'll tweak the default APL / profiles.

 

Also, I've coded Final Verdict cleave (when SoRighteousness active) the way it appears it should work based on the tooltip. In other words, hits the primary target for 100% damage, hits all other targets for 50%. On beta, it was working slightly differently: the cleave was happening with any seal active, but when SoR was active the primary target also only took 50%. I'm pretty sure that's just buggy behavior though.

 

Right now it triggers hand of light on each target, so the sim replicates that behavior. In my testing, it also procced Seal of Insight on every target, but not Seal of Righteousness. I suspect that it shouldn't be proccing anything and the SoI procs I was seeing were unintentional. But for the moment, the cleave is proccing all seals (even SoR) in SimC until we determine the appropriate behavior.

 

FYI, I also plan on creating some batch processing scripts for protection, much like my old matlab sims but almost entirely in simc. Once I have the code written for those, it should be easy enough to extend to other specs or even classes (indeed, that's the long-term goal).


Edited by Theck, 29 July 2014 - 02:54 PM.


#55 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:07 AM

Small update - Blinding Light is back in, as a CC talent, in place of Evil is a Point of View.


Clear ether!


#56 Gothmor

Gothmor

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

In the next build we get a free Dp (100% Wpd instead of 50% wpd) after a succesful Final verdict, Blizz said it should´nt be good for single target rotation but I think it could be better if we weave the dp in our rotation and dont get any haste from gear, only mastery/multistrike.

 

The extra dp nonetheless, lowers our haste focus I think.  (I like haste, but more buttons too)


Edited by Gothmor, 05 August 2014 - 12:34 AM.


#57 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:47 AM

Some more changes:

 

-Seal of Insight just heals for a flat 16% SP now, down from 23.6% AP + 23.6% SP. Seems to be the same for all specs too.

 

-Can confirm the above change for Final Verdict: it makes your next Divine Storm do 100% more damage and have double its normal radius.

 

-Various healing spells and effects (including Glyph of Protector of the Innocent) now work with multistrikes.


Clear ether!


#58 Teleros

Teleros

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 123 posts

Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:26 AM

More changes...

 

-Censure does 30.9% SP over 15 secs, up from 25.7%.

-Crusader Strike does 120% weapon damage, up from 100%.

-Hammer of the Righteous does 42% weapon damage (up from 35%) plus 24% AoE weapon damage (up from 20%).

 

-Judgement does (1+ 60.25% SP + 72.36% AP) damage, up from (1 + 50.21% SP + 60.3% AP) damage.

-New Perk: HP consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free & deal 50% more damage.

-Empowered Seals healing from Judgement of Insight nerfed from 3% to 1%.

 

-Supplication changed: now has +50% Flash of Light healing (was 100%) and +100% crit chance (was 50%).

-Exorcism does (1 + 140.52% AP) damage, up from (1 + 117.1% AP) damage.


Clear ether!


#59 Tyrionth

Tyrionth

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

I guess with these new changes empowered seals and seraphim are rendered totally useless... not used SimC yet but I don't think changing seals (wasting GCDs) for an additional 15% AP and 30% iAS or a 5HP consumer every 30 secs can ever challenge having all TV damage as holy plus 100% dmg increase in the next DS, which is free.

 

It's a shame but I guess we won't have that many buttons in our priority list. The only way for another talent to be useful I can think of is maybe using Holy Avenger+Seraphim for bosses with a high damage burst needed every 1-2 minutes



#60 Konke

Konke

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 10 August 2014 - 06:04 PM

I guess with these new changes empowered seals and seraphim are rendered totally useless... not used SimC yet but I don't think changing seals (wasting GCDs) for an additional 15% AP and 30% iAS or a 5HP consumer every 30 secs can ever challenge having all TV damage as holy plus 100% dmg increase in the next DS, which is free.

 

It's a shame but I guess we won't have that many buttons in our priority list. The only way for another talent to be useful I can think of is maybe using Holy Avenger+Seraphim for bosses with a high damage burst needed every 1-2 minutes

Can you explain yourself further, 3% healing nerfed to 1% is the major change recently to the end tier talents and sealtwisting has been said to be the top dmg and not talking about t17 bonuses


"He's got to make his own mistakes and learn to mend the mess he makes. He's old enough to know what's right, but young enough not to choose it. He's noble enough to win the world, but weak enough to lose it. He's a New World Man..."

Rush - New world man





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Warlords, Draenor, paladin, talents, stats

8 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 8 guests, 0 anonymous users