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Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

Warlords of Draenor monk wow

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#21 Taser

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:56 AM

Right now, best thing you can do is just reading Alpha patchnotes, dev-blogs and twitter. Personally I have theorycrafting (all my spreadsheets and such) completely on hold until Beta starts and we are getting more info. Even the datamined tooltips that are available on wowhead and mmo-c are not worth calculating anything with. Keep calm, enjoy the show and pick up the real discussion when beta invites are being send out. It will get very interesting...that's for sure.



#22 Hinalover

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 02:51 AM



Amplify was removed. We don't know the relative values of Haste, Mastery, and Crit Ratings to percentages, nor do we know their weight in gems. Consequently, we can't know their relative strength as stats, only that they will behave as they do now.

 

Actually we do know the relative values to their 1% percentages (at this time; since they can change during Beta). Simulationcraft has values right now; and the values do line up with what is on Wowhead's percentage:

 

 
HP Per stamina:
90 - 49
100 - 60
 
Base Mana Regen per Spirit:
90 & 100 - 0.824414074420929
 
Mana
90 - 37,000
100 - 160,000
 
Crit Rating = 1% Crit
90 - 23
100 - 110
 
Haste Rating = 1% Haste
90 - 16
100 - 80
 
Mastery Rating = Mastery Value (From here you multiply this by ((Base Mastery % of spec) / 8) )
90 - 23
100 - 110
 
PVP Power = 1% PvP Power
90 - 10
100 - 49
 
Multistrike = 1% Multistrike (Multistrike does have a 200% cap; for more info you can read this: http://lhiveras-libr...istrike-and-you)
90 - 7
100 - 33
 
Readiness = 1 Readiness Value (Multiplied by spec specific coefficient [currently unknown but spell ids for coefficient is below])
90 - 23
100 - 110
 
Readiness spec specific spells
 
Mists of Pandaria Gems

Edited by Hinalover, 03 May 2014 - 03:22 AM.


#23 Pisshands

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:52 AM

Well then. Currently, 1% Crit is 600 Rating, 1% Haste is 425 Rating, and 1% Mastery is 920 Rating.

 

MoP ratios relative to Crit

Crit :: Haste = 600 : 425 = 1.41

Crit :: Mastery = 600 : 960 = .625

 

WoD ratios relative to Crit:

Crit :: Haste = 110 : 80 = 1.375

Crit :: Mastery = 110 : 176 = .625

 

Crit has lost about 2% of its item value relative to Haste and remained even to Mastery. Given that Haste is currently worth ~65% of Crit's EB generation value, the slight change in value is insignificant. Stats remain reasonably proportional, and the greater changes for which to account are how Multistrike and Readiness factor into tanking as-yet unseen encounters and how the loss of Crit from Agility and an additional 10% base Crit affect our early-expansion scaling.


Edited by Pisshands, 03 May 2014 - 05:55 AM.


#24 Nevernite

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:12 AM

Look at that.. I thought they just copy-pasted the trinket-readyness proc for now. BrM readyness affects Avert Harm and Clash which got removed(I hope they return Clash). Transcendence isn't worth mentioning because of the Draenor Perk.

 

But WW Readiness now affects even Fists of Fury. I like that.


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#25 Hinalover

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:46 PM

 

Crit has lost about 2% of its item value relative to Haste and remained even to Mastery. Given that Haste is currently worth ~65% of Crit's EB generation value, the slight change in value is insignificant. Stats remain reasonably proportional, and the greater changes for which to account are how Multistrike and Readiness factor into tanking as-yet unseen encounters and how the loss of Crit from Agility and an additional 10% base Crit affect our early-expansion scaling.

 

Currently the loss of Crit from Agility and the 10% base Crit, is a net loss than it is on live. Looking at my current live gear converted to WoD, I'm looking at ~48% Crit in my Windwalker gear when on live, I'm looking at 57% Crit. Looking at WoD ILvl 660 PvP set, it is around 27-30% Crit.

 

Also remember that in WoD, Tiger Strikes is being re-designed (and given to all specs [Ox Stance, Tiger Stance, and Crane Stance]) to provide 50% Multistrike for 8 seconds when it procs (8% change to proc from 2-handers, 5% chance from 2 1-handers) - http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=120273 That SHOULD be about a 1.87 PPM

 

But WW Readiness now affects even Fists of Fury. I like that.

 

It affects Fists of Fury on live. Just due to how it works right now, AoC just isn't that rewarding.


Edited by Hinalover, 03 May 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#26 Nevernite

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:59 PM

It affects Fists of Fury on live. Just due to how it works right now, AoC just isn't that rewarding.

Oh dang it, you are right. FoF is affected - RSK isn't.

Maybe somehow mixed that up, because it -as you mention- isn't that rewarding. Sorry about that.


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#27 Nevernite

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:20 PM

There is still one more thing bugging me..

1. Healing Sphere got cut, because almost any other instant heal is gone, right?

2. As far as I know the monk is supposed to be a very mobile if not the most mobile class.

 

But if we look at the other hybrids - especially melees we'll see that they retain their instant heal mechanics, which can be used while on the move.

 

Druid

Feral: Predatory Swiftness[baseline], Enhanced Rejuvenation[perk]

Guardian: Dream of Cenarius[talent]

Balance: Nature's Swiftness[baseline], Enhanced Frenzy[perk]

Paladin

Retribution + Protection: Word of Glory now has 1.5 sec cast time, but they also have Selfless Healer[talent]

Shaman

Enhancement: Maelstrom Weapon[baseline]

Elemental Elemental Focus[baseline]

 

Even the ranged hybrids have atleast some kind of buff to their heals(well Enh. Frenzy is not really reliable). Some of the hybrids have to talent into. We have nothing. We have to stand still to heal another raidmember. We can't trigger an instant heal nor do we have a proc to buff the next Surging Mist. We lost some of our mobility, while the other DD's retained theirs.(Feral even gaining Enh. Rejuv perk). Brewmaster lost even more with Clash getting pulled.

 

IF we really are supposed to excell at mobility, then I think we need something to compensate for the loss of Healing Sphere and level the field. What comes to mind is something like Vital Mists for WW(for BrM too strong): "When you Tiger Palm, you gain Vital Mists, reducing the cast time and mana cost of your next Surging Mist by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec."

Or making Celerity baseline, because who are we kidding.. Enhanced Roll just doesn't cut it.

Taking Chi Torpedo does make Celerity mandatory, because it feels like a penalty without it. And if changing the lvl 15 talents, the feeling of when Roll comes back off cooldown is way off  and therefore inconsistent. Inconsistency is not concidered good game design, is it?

 

 

What are your thoughts on that topic, guys? Shall monks not get their niche of beeing good at mobility?

I am concerned..

 

Another thought:

Where is the point in having a "+10% movement speed aura" if no other melee will benefit from it, because we FSK or Roll away. People will just complain "the monk is supposed to accompany the other melees, so that all melees are faster at the target location" This is an indirect hit to our mobility, since we are not "allowed" to use FSK if we could. Wouldn't it make more sense to move that part from Stance of the Fierce Tiger to the Paladin and give them a passive +10%ms Crusader Aura instead?

 

 

// I didn't include +%heal from perks as they are subject to tuning anyway

// also wowhead tooltips don't work at the moment.


Edited by Nevernite, 05 May 2014 - 06:49 PM.

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#28 Hinalover

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:46 PM

It wasn't cut due to it being instant. They cut it mostly due to requirement of placing the orb, how small the orb is, and lag due to placing and picking them up. Surging Mist does a decent job for only 30 Energy. It just means we may need a mouseover macro for healing. As for Mistweavers, they are getting a lot of ways to heal using their healing sphere. Path of Mists can be extremely good, especially with the Detonate Chi spell which forces the explosion of the healing orbs.



#29 Nevernite

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:54 PM

Yea, I know MW has a lot of ways to heal ;) I was talking about non-healers specifically. Dropping or targeting is no diffrence in my opinion, i am concerned about the heal while-on-the-move. If the orb-placement was the only concern they wouldn't give Surging Mist a 1.5sec cast time. would they? For the other classes nothing changed, but we have to stand still now. This is a cut to movement. We wouldn't be able anymore to heal the person in prison in the Sha fight(4th boss SoO) while walking towards the orange plane. A feral druid on the other hand is still able to get a finisher off on the boss, and then heal the person in prison while walking on the orange plane. A paladin could also save his heal proc from Selfless Healer to use it on the person in prison - while on the move.

Monk just has to stand still, and has no other option, despite beeing the class with good mobility. Chi Wave is only reliable for a single tick, wich doesn't do much and Chi Torpedo is more of an AoE heal and has the cost of a Roll which might be needed elsewhere.

 

It isn't like I beg to buff us or nerf others. Just that we are the only hybrid DD's which won't able to do something we can do now, and that our mobilty will be worse than now. It just feels like a kick in the balls.


Edited by Nevernite, 05 May 2014 - 08:02 PM.

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#30 Nevernite

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 02:54 PM

Attention!! mad paint skillZ.

I know it doesn't look pretty, but I wanted to confront the spec-specific active spells[hotkey candidates -> button bloat] we use in MoP to the ones we'll use in WoD. It's nothing new, just a neat little illustration I did for fun. I tried, more or less, to line certain spells up which are comparable.

 

Let me make a blank statement without any facts to back it up, but I think I am right if I say that 'most' monks who use Dual Spec would change betweeen Brewmaster and Windwalker, since both specs can be played using the same equip. BrM/WW and MW use diffrent equip. We know that this will change with WoD.

First I wanted only to confront Brewmaster with Windwalker, but for comparison I decided to throw Mistweaver into it aswell.

 

And you may 've guessed already what I want to say: Why should Brewmaster have less abilites than the other specs. since we already hotkeyed the buttons in the other two specs. There should still be a slot left for Clash! #DontRemoveClash

XzaehEJ.jpg

 

 

I am also sad about Disable as BrM. Used it for the root. And not beeing able to switch to Tiger Stance suxx. Just yesterday I had to switch to TigerStance or stop DPS'ing to not get aggro again as Offtank.

As Mistweaver and Brewmaster I like to use Tiger Stance for the increased movement speed, sometimes even in raids depending on the situation. BTW: MoP Fistweaver in TigerStance has 10% ms - WoD Fistweaver in Crane Stance has not.

 

// I shifted BoK,TP and Jab from class to spec-specific in WoD since MW can only use it in Crane Stance.

Didn't include talents, since every spec could talent into an active ability in every row. Also didn't include Spells you wouldn't hotkey most of the time, like Legacy of the White Tiger/Emperor, Zen Pilgramage or stances..

 

#DontRemoveClash #DontRemoveClash #DontRemoveClash

 

 

 

 

With Ascension's energy reg beeing nerfed and Jab's cost raised to 50, why should a WW monk with the Empowered Chi-perk ever concider to pick Ascension over Chi Brew? Chi gain from Chi Brew is superior. Only situation where having the option to pool 6Chi would be useful is using two 4'CEx back to back after an ComboBreaker:CEx. I guess Chi Brews recharge time could be nerfed then because it is to strong compared to the other two talents in that row; but that would hit MW harder then BrM and WW.


Edited by Nevernite, 14 May 2014 - 09:39 AM.

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#31 Nevernite

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 07:58 AM

Warlords of Draenor Alpha Patch Notes Update - May 23

 

Monk

 

holy shit balls.. removing every single fun ability... *cry*

 

edit:

twitter:

https://twitter.com/...085379937562624

 

this explanation ... same reasoning with Clash but then doing NOTHING to buff roll, except some dumb glyphs.

*cry some more*


Edited by Nevernite, 24 May 2014 - 08:19 AM.

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#32 Taser

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:51 PM

Currently I am trying to set up some math for WoD. But there is one thing that I am currently stuck. And I thought, that someone might be able to help me out.

 
Situation:
New stat multistrike comes in
Monk's Tiger Strikes will be changed to
•Tiger Strikes is now available to all Monk specializations, and has a chance to trigger on successful auto attacks and their Multistrikes. It has an 8% chance to trigger while using a two-handed weapon, and a 5% chance to trigger while dual wielding.
•When triggered, Tiger Strikes now grants a 25% increase to Multistrike for 8 seconds instead of a 50% increase to attack speed and double attacks for 4 attacks.
Apart from the damage provided, Gift of the Ox (small healing orbs) are being spawned only by Multistrikes in WoD
 
As Tiger Strikes will trigger on whitehits and white multistrikes it will scale with and off itself. I started with the following formula:
 
Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 1 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%) * 0.08 * ( 8 * 0.25)
 
As the numbers are always the same we can simplify it:
 
Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%)
 
But I have to include the scaling. If I add one more instance I get to
 
Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike% + 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%))
 
There must be a possibility to simplify the formula, maybe based on some interest on interest calcs. Either math classes are too long ago or I am just plain stupid.


#33 Nevernite

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:48 AM

Just found this video:

Hurricane Strike usage begins at about 4:25
I have to agree with that Youtube-comment. I wonder how nobody posted a video from Hurricane Strike yet, when it looks that awesome(Atleast I think it does)


Edited by Nevernite, 27 June 2014 - 10:58 AM.

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#34 Nevernite

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 08:27 AM

45 energy Jab for Windwalkers.

https://twitter.com/...471923185586176


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#35 Whosbouncin

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:54 PM

With the Warlords changes to professions and racial abilities, it looks like Blizzard is trying to get rid of alot of the min-max factors for players in the game. I.E. this race is best for (insert pve/pvp) (insert class and/or spec)
 
Currently for my windwalker on live I am rolling blacksmithing and engineering. how do you folks feel professions will be used in WoD? Which benefits would be best to have from a pve standpoint for top tier raiding?

#36 MysticalOS

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:54 AM

The hope Blizzard has, is that there is no best, and professions return to being flavor and a choice rather than a min max. They seem to be doing pretty well with that goal.

Right now engineering still looks a little ahead depending on whether or not you value a clutch rocket boot that consumes your ability to use a dps pot. A living dps is still > being dead, so in an example like helm of command, those rocket boots still > pot in an emergency. However, it is not worth it if just trying to get to A to B faster mid fight and not in any danger to give up your dps or mana/concentration pot.

Now, they did say those tinkers will become boe so even that benefit is gone, but so far I have not seen that happen yet. When and if it does the engineering will lose that edge.

#37 Whosbouncin

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 03:24 PM

From my thoughts, i can see that you can get the leatherworking set FASTER by being a leatherworker yourself. but with the garrisons you can get any crafted gear regardless of your professions. 







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