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Automated Guild Progress Ranking


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#981 Bethink

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:24 PM

A quick look at our realm's progression reveals some problems: US-Moonrunner Guild Ranking - klickers Tracker - World of Warcraft

- Dates for many of the early kills are improperly recognized as the date of the 2nd or 3rd time the boss was killed.
- Realm ranks are inconsistent and incorrect, with 2 guilds credited with 1st kills of Halfus / Magmaw / Conclave despite very different display dates.
- Infernal Affairs is incorrectly identified as killing Magmaw-25, around the time we had two 10-mans killing it at once after 3 previous kills.
- Equitas is identified as first killing Halfus-25 on Jan 4th, which they may have done but we know they killed it in 10-man on Dec 16th.


Ad (1). This is difficult to analyze without further details. Possible general reasons for this are that a kill requires a minimum number of guild membes to be recognized as a guild kill and that the Conclave of Wind achievement criterion was bugged when Cataclysm launched resulting in kill credit not being awarded to players that were dead when the encounter ended. Feel free to append ?analyze to any guild URL to view the aggregated kill counts the reasoning engine is working with when processing kills.

Ad (2). I cannot follow you on this. Realm rank 1 would appear to be uniquely assigned for Halfus and Magmaw, and shared by Equitas and Internal Affairs for Conclave of Wind which was defeated on December 13 by both guilds. Note that there is a (realm) rank 1 for both the 25-man and the 10-man first kill.

Ad (3). This has been fixed with todays push.

Ad (4). The tracker is currently giving unconditional preference to 25-man kills. I am considering altering this behaviour to give preference to kills machting the guild bracket.

#982 PsiVen

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:07 PM

Yes, most of the dates I noted before have fixed themselves now. The only additional error I've noticed is the 'roster joined' log bit which seems to be picking up on the first time it sees a character get an achievement or something, not actually on guild joins.

Perhaps I'm not using it correctly, but I was unable to get &analyze to do anything but return 404.

#983 Bethink

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:49 PM

The join dates may be due to characters below the level of 85 currently being ignored by the tracker.

The URL parameter should have read ?analyze if it is the first query argument.

#984 ztn

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

Bethink - can you post here an example of calculation "relative encounter difficulty". May be on Heroic: Al'Akir. I don't clearly understand how to do it from this guide. But numbers seems totaly wrong.

#985 Bethink

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:57 PM

Here is an example of the calculation for the normal modes. The following table shows the number of kills on each raid size as well as the ratio of these kills:

[TABLE="head"]Encounter | 25-Man Kills | 10-Man Kills | Ratio
Magmaw | 3796 | 22916 | 0.165648455
Omnotron Defense System | 3663 | 20307| 0.180381149
Maloriak | 3563 | 12995| 0.274182378
Atramedes | 2828 | 10369| 0.27273604
Chimaeron | 2333 | 8561| 0.272514893
Nefarian | 884 | 1566| 0.56449553
Halfus Wyrmbreaker | 3438 | 20506| 0.167658246
Valiona and Theralion | 3076 | 16071| 0.19140066
Ascendant Council | 1637 | 8101| 0.202073818
Cho'gall | 1626 | 4378| 0.371402467
Conclave of Wind | 2624 | 14645| 0.179173779
Al'Akir | 690 | 4600| 0.15
[/TABLE]

The geometric mean of the ratio is 0.2303.

Now let us calculate the relative encounter difficulty for Al'Akir on 25-man.

  • The number of 25-man guilds is 4144.
  • The number of 10-man Al'Akir kills is 4603.
  • The expected number of 25-man kills is the number of 10-man kills multplied by the ratio, i.e. 4603 * 0.2303 = 1060. (This is less than the 4144 25-man guilds, so there is no capping.)
  • The effective number of 25-man Al'Akir kills is 690.
  • The relative encounter difficulty is defined as (expected - effective) / expected, i.e. (1060 - 690) / 1060 = 0.35

Hopefully, I did a better job at explaining the calculation with this example than I did in the FAQ.

As for Heroic: Al'Akir, the calculation is likely to be more in the realm of divination than mathematics at this time as there are only two kills of this encounter so far (one on each raid size.) The relative difficulty calculation becomes more meaningful and stable as there are more kills. Also note that heroic encounters are calculated independent of normal mode encounters, so the current heroic ratio is different from the current normal ratio used in the example above.

#986 Bethink

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:22 PM

I have added a personalized news feature to the klickers tracker:
My News - klickers Tracker - World of Warcraft

The personalized news page displays aggregated news about the guilds and characters that you have favorited. You are informed about their raid progress and learn when they change name, guild or realm. Use of this feature requires you to log in to the tracker web site using your Google account (which can be created free of charge if you do not already have one.)

#987 Bethink

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 10:43 PM

I just wanted to let you know that Wowtrack now supports progress tracking based on the loot obtained by guild members - in addition to the existing achievement based method. This is of particular importance for the ranking of guilds that have formed during progress, or that have changed raid size while progressing. More details can be found in this blog post: Wowtrack: Loot Based Guild Progress Tracking

#988 snowman2050

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:38 AM

A quick question, does Wowtrack support multiple groups in 1 particular guild? For example my guild currently has a strict 10man group and a strict 25man group, never mixing and progressing as 2 seperate entities. On Wowtrack it lists us as a 10man guild but does not track the 25man kills.

So the question is, can Wowtrack support 2 types of raid entities listed under 1 guild, if not do you have plans to implement this kind of support?

No Longer playing WoW - But feel free to find and join me over at http://www.talkgeek.net/

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#989 Bethink

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 09:00 AM

This is not supported. Given the current armory output, I see no way of doing this in a reliable way in the general case. Therefore, there are currently no plans of implementing this. Of course, plans may change as the armory evolves.

#990 Bethink

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:05 PM

Wowtrack now provides push notifications on your iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. You can receive notifications on raid progress and other events relating to your favorite guilds and characters. More information can be found in this blog post:
Wowtrack: Push Notifications on the iPhone




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