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How much modding is necessary?


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#41 Zoraster

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 12:38 PM

Typically the only thing we run with required is KTM and CTRA. CTRA has limited uses now it seems and we've gotten away from keeping people from raiding if they DONT have it installed. it used to be alot more important to us pre-BC.

The whole modded/purist player conversation always seems to come up from time to time. From our own experience, being a guild that has completed Kara and just trying to find enough bodies to move forward, having alot of 'new' players experiencing high-end content for the first (or close to it) time makes things like KTM invaluable, even for healers. I say for healers because when I ran resto, I could know EXACTLY when I was gonna die because I accidently crit healed some nugget that hadn't secured their target :)
But 'experience' teaches you that you use your cooldowns to reduce aggro whenever they are up and you are going to have no problems. A new fire mage who wants to impress people with their l33t skillz are going to blow their manapool like a 17yr old after the prom, its nice for them to have something that screams slow down or you WILL die.

For healing, I find Clique an awesome mod. Works with CTRA/grid, just hover over the person alt/ctrl/shift left/right/middle click all of my spells, dont even have to look any more. The difference being that I can also be almost as efficient running no ui's because after 2+ years you tend to pick up a trick or two :)

bag mod, auctioneer and I think that's it. I used to use the Discord mods library which made for some of the sweetest looking UIs but everytime blizzard patched you had to spend 4+ hours retweaking everything. Life is simplier now.

#42 Kaubel

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 01:51 PM

--Zoraster


You don't really need to do this.

#43 Obituary

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 03:55 PM

None are necessary. But people who say they can do their job(s) just as well without any mods are kidding themselves.

Boss timers really have no substitute. Being able to pre-cast that heal or prepare in some way for some boss ability is priceless. I'm sure some people have timed an ability here and there with a buff timer (or a timer mod) or something before boss mod x or y had the timer built in. Point being, it gets difficult to do this without a mod, and definitely takes away from your performance in other areas.

Threat meters now a days are pretty accurate and considering Omen has graced our presence, even the crappiest of computers should be able to run it. There really is no way this can be replaced, no matter how good someone is at judging their threat. Let's give this person the extreme benefit of the doubt, saying they can calculate their threat with 100% accuracy. This still isn't enough...why? Because mobs will roll parries/dodges and tanks, even with the wonderful hit itemization we've been granted, will still miss. I try to warn people when that happens to me, but being able to take a half second glance at a graph will always win.

Finally, a replacement of raid frames (for healing classes mostly) will increase efficiency by some great amount. I'm pretty sure if you took Grid away from all the healers in my guild, shit would hit the fan. Some of its features can not be taken care of by the default UI, in any capacity, unless there has been some type of upgrade that I'm not aware of.

At the tail end of things, I guess I could mention some type of outfit mod (I'm partial to ClosetGnome). I can think of a few times, especially as a tank, where switching gear quickly could make a decent impact on things raiding wise. This gear switching might be accomplished with a really long macro though? Not sure on that one.

#44 Xejin

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:03 PM

My guild has finally gotten into Karazan (two bosses down the first night, no wipes - yay go us) and I'm starting to require people to use certain mods.

Everyone needing Omen and BigWigs.
Casters needing either PerfectRaid or Grid. (I prefer PerfectRaid for the healers myself)

and for fun and friendly competition:

Most people have SWStats.

I'm borderline on requiring people to install Quartz and make up some /stopcasting macros. One of our casters is either laggy or watching TV because he's coming in under the druids in DPS (he claims lag of course). I'm hesitant because Blizzard has said their implementing something to make /stopcasting unnecessary - but they haven't defined what that is yet.

#45 Guest_alkis_*

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:59 AM

On threat meters, Praetorian put it very well a while back (can't find his post so this may not be word for word):

"Dpsing without threat meters is like healing without health bars"

How do you know if your tank got a string of 2-3 miss/parry/dodge right at the beginning of the encounter or after an agrowipe? Answer: you don't and there is no amount of skill that will allow you to do the right thing in those situations.

#46 Kaubel

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 01:34 AM

None are necessary.

The thread topic is rhetorical, and anyone halfway intelligent knows what the OP is asking, so why has this been said like five times already? Do you guys honestly think it's an insightful comment that contributes to the discussion?

#47 Nuke

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 12:13 PM

Well, you don't need TeamSpeak or Vent either for a raid but few people are going to disagree on how helpful they are.


Interesting,how are you going to do everything past Prince without any verbal communications?

#48 Northerner

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:20 PM

Interesting,how are you going to do everything past Prince without any verbal communications?


It really wouldn't be that hard at all. I raided for a long time in EQ (and up to AQ in WoW) without TS or Vent and it works just fine if you have people used to doing so. In some ways I'd even venture that it promotes personal accountability.

I rely heavily on voice these days of course but text is a perfectly acceptable form of communication. Well, at least it used to be.

#49 Roywyn

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:01 PM

Interesting,how are you going to do everything past Prince without any verbal communications?

Pre-BC, we killed everything but C'thun and Four Horsemen/Sapphiron/Kel'thuzad without any voice communication in raids. There was a ventrilo server where 10/15 people were, but nothing raid leading happened on it.

We started using and enforcing it halfway through SSC, mostly for Lady Vashj. Announcing where striders/naga/tainted elementals spawn allows your raid to react faster, and timing the use of the fourth core can make or break phase three.

I used to raid with everyone on TS before and couldn't even imagine raiding without voice communication. The difference is that raiding without voice communication requires more awareness of the current situation, and I'd say it also makes you far more sensitive to your surroundings.


So, while using voice communications is very helpful in general, there are only few fights that kind of require them. Namely those, where people need to make fast decisions that require immediate reaction of the whole raid.

Vashj - reaction on spawn and timing the 4th core. Kael'thas - timing/deciding phoenix kills right before or right after barrier/pyroblasts. (That's as far as we came.)
Everything else I'd say can be done by proper briefing and execution, with voice communication having only a minor impact.

#50 Malan

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 04:43 PM

Interesting,how are you going to do everything past Prince without any verbal communications?


Beatdown Brigade uses no verbal comms of any sort, and I asked last week if people would use it once it was built into WoW - the answer was a resounding No. We're working Vashj now (3/4 shields down, just need to kill striders faster and we'll have the kill) and have A'lar and A'lar and VR down in TK. Everything we do is coordinated pre-pull, raiders are expected to be where they need to be at the right time, and urgent alerts are all macro'd into raid warnings. ie, the strider kiter on Vashj has a macro for when he needs a tailor net on the strider, and everyone has macros alerting that they're throwing the Core to someone.

#51 Chicken

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 04:47 PM

Beatdown Brigade uses no verbal comms of any sort, and I asked last week if people would use it once it was built into WoW - the answer was a resounding No. We're working Vashj now (3/4 shields down, just need to kill striders faster and we'll have the kill) and have A'lar and A'lar and VR down in TK. Everything we do is coordinated pre-pull, raiders are expected to be where they need to be at the right time, and urgent alerts are all macro'd into raid warnings. ie, the strider kiter on Vashj has a macro for when he needs a tailor net on the strider, and everyone has macros alerting that they're throwing the Core to someone.

We run without voice communication as well, pretty much same progression as Malan's guild, though we do have Vashj down.

We ran without voice communication pre-TBC as well, got about halfway through Naxx and killed everything else including C'Thun (And Naxx progression was halted mostly by the pre-expansion burn out).

Voice Communications are nice, but they're not required. Macros are a winner instead, as are minimap pings.

#52 Obituary

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 04:59 PM

The thread topic is rhetorical, and anyone halfway intelligent knows what the OP is asking, so why has this been said like five times already? Do you guys honestly think it's an insightful comment that contributes to the discussion?


You caught me. I'm not halfway intelligent, I just decided to answer the question with the obvious answer before I went on to explain myself.




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