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The Healadin Thread


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#21 Zurm

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:04 PM

Good point. While I personally was an FoL spammer until I got to hyjal/bt (ah, Naj'entus was a fun wake up call!), I didn't stay open minded. I will edit this accordingly after I put some thought into my wording.

Thanks for the input!

#22 promdates

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:18 PM

Quick update on the gear sheet... I went through last night and took out the majority of the cloth/leather items from atleast 5-6 item slots and added in the Season 2 gear. I also removed the non-dmg/heal items (i.e. tanking and ret dps gear), and all level 60 gear with a few exceptions. So somethings went from 100+ items to about 20-25.

If I have farm content tonight, I should be able to go through and finish it up tonight while raiding.. if not, I'm off work tomorrow and will have it completed by then.
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#23 Zurm

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:28 PM

For the gear sheet, how possible would it be for you to add something that models Meta gems and other special effects, specifically or the equip bonus on ? Maybe like a 0-1 binary input to say you do have it or not? If you can, keep in mind on the meta its a 2% proc chance to gain 300 mana, but it can proc off illumination as well as a heal (so crits have double chance). Not entirely sure how you would go about modeling the spire since its based on MT hp...maybe allow an input for the number of heals that the tank is below 50% (a percentage input?).

TY if you can, if not thats cool too, I'll try to figure it out as well.

#24 Strategia

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:44 PM

Trinkets: There are MANY trinkets you can choose from. There is no wrong answer, but here is a large selection of popular trinkets you can choose from:
...


Is there a particular reason Eye of Gruul or Fel Reaver's Piston are not included? I've debated the usefulness of Eye of Gruul but I'm fairly convinced the Piston is an awesome trinket. Are there better choices I can make or is this simply a plug-into-spreadsheet answer?

#25 promdates

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:27 PM

I thought it was common knowledge that the IED was the best meta... I could have been wrong. I'll see if there's someway I can go about moding that into the sheet.

As far as , last I checked, I believe it was either 1st or 2nd on the sheet.. again, could be wrong as I don't have access to view the sheet at work atm.

@ Strategia: The Eye of Gruul and Fel Reaver's Pison are both rather decent trinkets. The Piston is looked down as a sidegrade to Shard of the Scale from Onyxia as the HoT doesn't scale with your healing. The Eye isn't too horrible, passive 44 to healing and a 2% chance to lower your cast by 450. Granted, if you're spamming FoL, that's a 2% chance to have a free FoL... which is pretty good, but there are better trinkets than that imo.
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#26 galzohar

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:23 PM

AND we get mana back from the heals the shadow priests give (as of 2.1.3(?) only if its not an overheal, still amazing on any fight where we take damage to generate more net mana)

I remember reading somehwere that the level taken into account for the downrank penalty formula was 1 level below the level in which the next rank is learned. So if you learn rank 5 at 50 and rank 6 at 60, rank 5 counts as a level 59 spell for that formula.
I think this is worth verifying.

#27 promdates

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:16 PM

I remember reading somehwere that the level taken into account for the downrank penalty formula was 1 level below the level in which the next rank is learned. So if you learn rank 5 at 50 and rank 6 at 60, rank 5 counts as a level 59 spell for that formula.
I think this is worth verifying.


Correct, the level of the spell is the highest level before a new rank is learned. Using yours numbers, the R5 is level 59 since you learn R6 at 60.
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#28 Zurm

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:16 PM

Added trinkets and updating the downranking penalty right now.

#29 jusion

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 09:57 PM

"# Crystalforge Raiment: The bonuses on this set have been adjusted."

Uh oh, anyone know what they did?

- Blessing of Light: Lower ranks of Flash of Light and Holy Light are now properly penalized when used with this Blessing.

And ouch even more.

#30 Zurm

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 11:39 PM

Update:

As of today (Oct 11, 2007) the PTR patch notes reflect two major changes:

1) Blessing of Light will not give the full effect to down-ranked spells
2) T5 Bonuses have been "adjusted"

We are going to need the first few paladins who can on the PTR to test out the extent of these nerfs, and we should get rigorous testing in over the next few days. This may be the end of the HL/Haste build :(

#31 Egel

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:30 AM

You got the penalty for down-ranking wrong. The correct penalty is ("level where you learn the spell" + 11) / character level. So FoL 6 does have a penalty at level 70 albeit small. Someone in some paladin thread here tested it and posted the formula.

#32 promdates

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:33 AM

I'm more or less finished with the gear sheet, I just need to know whether to keep Off-hands in, or just shields. I'll try to keep the sheet updated as new items come in from the PTR.
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#33 Zurm

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:59 AM

Keep regular offhands in... you never know...

#34 jusion

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:44 AM

2p t5: 0 mana to your group when using a judgement
4p t5: chance on critical flash of light or holy light to reduce the cast time of following holy lights by -0.50 for 10 seconds. this effect can only trigger once per minute

Incase you guys didn't see. Ouch t5 users :(.

#35 Covertghost

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:46 AM

Spell Hasteadin build basically destroyed with change to 4pc tier5 in 2.3.

http://i3.photobucke...rystalforge.jpg

#36 galzohar

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:58 AM

Unless you were using 4pc T6... But even then the downrank nerf probably means you just want to use FoL when you need small heals doesn't it?

Also I forgot to mention that spiritual attuenment actually doesn't change anything regarding the argument of giving/not giving the pally a shadow priest. If the paladin takes any damage, he will need to be healed in 1 way or another and therefore will get mana back from spiritual attunement regardless of having a shadow priest or not. Heck, without a shadow priest you'll get more mana if you get overhealed by any amount, and let's face it, nobody heals *exactly* to 100% so you actually get more mana from spiritual attunement if you don't get a shadow priest. This is not saying if you should/shouldn't get a shadow priest, just saying spiritual attunement doesn't really help your argument to get one. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

#37 Naive

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:05 AM

Spell Hasteadin build basically destroyed with change to 4pc tier5 in 2.3.

http://i3.photobucke...rystalforge.jpg


I don't want to get us offtopic, but this is the most ridiculous change I've ever seen. Understandably, Blizzard is probably upset that BT clearing guild paladins are still wearing T5, but why make this move? It's a personal choice based around gear and playing style. There's no reason to make this change. /sigh This basically makes all paladins move to FoL spammers with the occasional HoL when the tank gets low.
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#38 HolyHotty

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:43 AM

Also, it is important to point out that those of you who are under the impression that the is a terrible item, there is some new information that you can find here (starting with my question about it on post #114).


Just wanted to help back up this claim in the new thread since I posted some theorycrafting in the other one (nice thread by the way). Here's a wws that shows off how good the BT trinket can be compared to a 70 healing trinket effective healing wise: [URL="http://wowwebstats.com/vbuvjnt51r3z3?s=13020-13491&a=9"]http://wowwebstats.com/vbuvjnt51r3z3?s=13020-13491&a=9 For this fight I was just prehealing with rank 11 holy light, which is the worst possible way to use this trinket to its full effectiveness, and I was pretty impressed with the results. After calculating potential crits and overheal for a 70 healing trinket, and the overheal for the talisman ticks that went off, I got 741 healing vs 3321. That means if I was wearing the scarab or prayerbook, I would have done 741 effective healing, while the talisman did 3321 effective healing. These results are kind of abnormal, 4.5 times as much effective healing, but I usually see over twice as much healing being done by the talisman.

Hope this helps some people make more informed decisions about their trinkets. Knowledge is power! :P

#39 Zurm

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:57 AM

Excellent work, HolyHotty. I'm not that surprised though, since the ashtongue trinket doesn't further contribute to overheal but rather puts a lasting heal that can hit after someone takes damage.

#40 promdates

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:43 PM

Well, there goes my goals for the next month or so as far as gear goes :( Can someone test out the new BoL situation on the PTR? I'd like to see how that compares to current, and how much of a nerf it is.
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