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The Healadin Thread


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#41 Rho

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 02:03 PM

I feel like this nerf to T5 is pretty much unnecessary. Other classes had fabulous set bonuses from T5 (Mage 2 piece anyone?).

It's also annoying because we've been sharding what are now clear upgrades because of T5 bonus. I'm hoping that this change is reversed.

#42 goss

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:03 PM

I'm just incredibly disappointed by the change to Tier 5. Not because I considered it my endgame set (I planned to upgrade to 4pc T6 once my guild has killed Illidan), but because its absence absolutely destroys playstyle variety in holy paladins, which is really lacking from talents and abilities in the first place.

The idea that by downranking crystalforged/hasted Holy Light, a paladin would have more than 2 useful heals (and sometimes upwards of 5) is a good thing, it encouraged some thought and a mild (without overselling this...) amount of subtlety to healing on a paladin. Tier 6 is a better all around set, and for that I would upgrade to it, but it doesn't encourage anywhere near the same variety. Crystalforge isn't absolute endgame, it's situationally useful after T6 is available, so I really can't understand the need for a nerf of this kind. As was suggested early in the 2.3 notes thread, swap the proc to haste rating so there is no chance of this set sticking around at 80 and call it a day. The -.25s Holy Light is a great set bonus, and gives versatility to a healing class that is otherwise severely hurting for choices.

#43 Zurm

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:58 PM

While this isn't killing ALL haste builds, it's certainly a big hit. Now you'll have to go 2pc T6 and slap as much haste gear in the other slots as possible.

#44 Yilona

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:14 PM

I haven't run the numbers yet, but it's my guess that you'll be losing a ton of +healing/crit/mp5 by using haste gear over other items. I'll have to play with spreadsheets later and take a look at it in more detail, but my gut feeling is that it's no longer a viable way to do things.

It's incredibly unfortunate.

#45 Zurm

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 06:30 PM

Let me know your results after you run the numbers, I may have to rewrite like half of the main post because of this -_-

#46 Aramul

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 08:27 PM

Additionally, BoL will be affected by the downranking penalty. With the Crystalforge nerf, this is a death sentence to haste builds.

- Blessing of Light: Lower ranks of Flash of Light and Holy Light are now properly penalized when used with this Blessing.


So not only is it harder to get quick HL casts, low ranks are no longer as efficient. I'm glad we haven't been sharding Hyjal T5 alternatives.

#47 Kathilyn

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:50 PM

I was admittedly hopeful when patch note first came out that they'd only be doing something with the 2-piece bonus.

I personally love downranking, and yes, thinking (albeit quickly!) about what I'm going to cast, rather than just being a generic flash bot. Along with the 4-piece bonus, I've completely built myself around spell crit. I switched to alchemy so I could get the Alchemist's Stone and chain-chug mana pots.

With these changes, I really don't seen any options but to become a flash bot.

What do you think HL/spell-crit devotees' next move should be? Should we shoot for +heal/+mp5 over +spell crit gems? I'd definitely like to start planning now.

#48 Zurm

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 01:38 AM

I would imagine the only change would be the replacing of haste with healing and spell crit. With a HL build you're generally dropping big heals so the mana returned from Illumination on a crit would probably be superior to a static mp5 (plus, as HL you generally should have a shadow priest anyway unless you cancel most of your heals).

All and all, i think the difference between FoL and HL now is that for FoL you want healing/mp5 and HL you want healing/crit, as opposed to haste/crit.

#49 galzohar

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:35 PM

If you're not using FoL regardless of the change I don't see why you suddenly wouldn't want haste. Granted you won't have 1.5s cast HL but dropping them down from 2 to 1.75 isn't much less useful than dropping it down from 1.75 to 1.5. The only reason I could see less use of haste gear is due to using FoL instead of downranked HL for small heals and therefore the haste is almost completely wasted when you're casting those FoLs.

#50 ArkamisImm

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 07:17 PM

Yikes. T5 healing took a nerf. Anyone have any info whether changes were made to T5 ret/prot?

#51 tiberion02

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 09:47 PM

Did some testing on the BoL nerf between live and beta. Did this with same gearsets. Approximately 2000 +heal and the Libram from Karazhan.


HL4: L 1925, B 1500 (-425)
HL5: L 2325, B 2000 (-325)
HL7: L 3250, B 3050 (-200)
HL9: L 4325, B 4225 (-100)
HL11: Approx equal


Also a note in T5 4pc. After a crit, it gives a 10 second buff of -.5 cast time on holy light. Much to my surprise though, it does not get consumed with 1 Holy Light cast, so you can cast 1.5 speed holy Light for the next ten seconds. Obviously, its a nerf from current 4piece, but its still a decent set bonus.

#52 HolyHotty

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:46 AM

That's disappointing rank 9 took a hit as well since I use it a lot. Was hoping it was high enough to escape the nerf. Thanks for the info.

#53 jusion

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 02:25 AM

Yeah, 4 and 7 aren't even worth having on your bars anymore. 9 is okay, but nothing I would use often. Looks like we get to FoL spam with the occasional HL11 now. :\

#54 Karakas

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 10:11 AM

RAnk 9 taking a hit is extremely odd since to the best of my knowledge it doesn't suffer from the downranking penalty when assessing the amount of +heal applied to it.

#55 Zurm

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:14 AM

Can someone please test if the new caster meta (12 crit rating and 3% increased crit "damage") really only applies to damage, or if it affects heals as well? Might be a good gem if it does work on healing.

Also, I've been hearing rumors that the no longer procs off illumination on the PTR... can anyone confirm/deny this?

#56 galzohar

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 05:08 PM

Dunno if they fixed it but it would make sense if they do, and I'd probably use anyway due to how much mana it is and the requirements.

#57 Naive

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:38 AM

Dunno if they fixed it but it would make sense if they do, and I'd probably use anyway due to how much mana it is and the requirements.


Yes, there is no conceivable gem in the game that comes close to 300 mana back from Insightful Earthstorm Diamond. Especially now that 4/5 Tier 5 is nerfed, it seems as if there's no real reason to stack +crit anymore. I would assume that most people are going to be re-socketing to +healing and +mp5 and revert to FoL spamming.
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#58 promdates

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 04:06 PM

Been rather busy the past week or so, with going out of town and all. Almost finished with the sheet, by adding all the new 2.3 stuff. It's surprising how high some of that stuff is ranked...
BNet: promdates#1460

#59 Kathilyn

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 05:29 PM

Yes, there is no conceivable gem in the game that comes close to 300 mana back from Insightful Earthstorm Diamond. Especially now that 4/5 Tier 5 is nerfed, it seems as if there's no real reason to stack +crit anymore. I would assume that most people are going to be re-socketing to +healing and +mp5 and revert to FoL spamming.


I agree with you on the Insightful Earthstorm Diamond; however, I really hope you're wrong on the flash bot stuff. I'm going to try to refrain from FoL spam as long as possible. I think it will come to figuring out what ranks work best now. I'll most likely have to adjust from HL 4, 7, 11, which is my current set-up.

#60 Zurm

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 06:19 PM

This post shows pretty conclusively that you will be forced into HL11/9 with tons of cancelling if you still want to have your gear for HL... but since you're cancelling illumination isn't as good, hence crit isnt' as good, hence you're better off gearing yourself for FoL. So sadly, IMO at least, it is true that we have be forced into the FoL spam route, I have already begun converting my gear own gear accordingly.




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