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PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue.


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#1 JamesVZ

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:39 PM

I've posted about this topic on the FoH forums, and someone copied it to the WoW general forums (links to follow), but I still feel there's a perspective and awareness being missed in the discussions so far.

The premise, I feel, is best summed up by Kreugen over at Fires of Heaven,

All James is saying is the street should flow both ways. You can decide that PVP is a mistake and move to PVE without losing your investment. You cannot do the same thing in reverse. This is fairly pointless now that most PVP servers are heavily loaded at the high end and the low/mid zones are mostly empty. You aren't trying to level in zones packed with hostile players anymore.


I don't see how there's any way to counter this line of thought. Arguing that it is easier to level up on a PvE server is null and void when the bulk of the game is loaded at the end of it. Likewise, the argument itself is suspect due the streamlined PvP process. I hope we can all agree it's much improved from the original days. But it is a system that has evolved over the course of 3 years to what it is now, and the mantra in place for preventing PvE to PvP transfers is outdated.

We haven't heard anything back from The Big Blue on why they continue to deny the option, only that they are not considering it. As a player, this is fairly frustrating. As a player stuck on a PvE server when I have levelled up many times on PvP servers, this is maddening. Given the reaction and general buzz surrounding the issue, I really don't think I'm alone here.

Can anyone here honestly see anything bad coming from the change to open PvE to PvP transfers? What do you think the impact on recruiting for your own guild would be -- would your own guild consider transferring to PvP if it is on a PvE server?

Relevant links,
WoW Forums -> PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue.
[WoW] PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue. - Fires of Heaven Guild Message Board

#2 Vontre

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:41 PM

Personally aggravated that as a pvp leveled character, there are guilds on pve realms I would consider joining to raid with, but if that doesn't work out I'm stuck in the "pve deathtrap" forever. Frankly bullshit, I mean I know this is EJ but, there's not much more I can say about it than that. =\
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#3 Flavahbeast

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:46 PM

Having levelled and played entirely on a PvP server, I can safely say that the "pvp server leveling is significantly harder" argument is bunk. On a server like Siege Perilous or Darktide or Mordred, yeah, levelling difficulty goes up a couple notches. WoW doesn't have true "hardcore" servers, and there's no good reason not to allow PvE -> PvP transfers other than some whining from stupid people on WoW general, which is going to happen anyway.

#4 Kadaan

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:48 PM

Given the choice, I would choose PvE 100% of the time. I do not find random killing of the opposing faction fun at all, and getting randomly killed even less so. That said, I have friends on PvP servers and characters on PvE servers collecting dust. I've leveled to 60 on PvP, and don't think the average time to level is that far off from a PvE server.

IMO Blizzard should remove the PvE -> PvP restriction and collect their $25 per transfer. I really don't see very many people spending the time grinding from 1-70 on a PvE server just to transfer over to a PvP server. If this is a concern, just implement a playtime requirement similar to the gold limit. Level 70 characters cannot be transferred PvE -> PvP with less than 20d playtime, etc.

I find it kinda ironic that this comes from FoH, who managed to get an open PvE->PvP transfer from Hyjal to Black Dragonflight.

#5 JamesVZ

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:52 PM

I find it kinda ironic that this comes from FoH, who managed to get an open PvE->PvP transfer from Hyjal to Black Dragonflight.


Please don't be confused about this point, I was the one who posted the original topic and have no affiliation with anyone inside Fires of Heaven outside of posting to their board. While it appears that topic is somewhat of a stickler to people, it was not the only PvE->PvP transfer ever made, nor should it be the focus of the discussion either. I think many people are more interested in the "why can't we still" rather than the "how come they did" aspect of it.

#6 Vectivus

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:58 PM

I think denying PvE to PvP transfers made absolute sense when paid transfers were first made available. Given the age of the game, it would have cheapened the leveling process for many - I would gladly pay $25 not to go through the psychological trauma that was STV just after vanilla release.

With that said, I think the OP is correct - the age where that 'feeling' of having worked harder to achieve level 70 (achieve? hmm...) on a PvP server is no longer relevant.

This would feed well into their plans for WotLK, too, where they plan on having PvP enabled zones even on PvE servers. Pardon my French, but let's just cut the crap, and let people pick whatever server they want to play on.

Frankly I don't know how you non-Nordic people can breed in good conscience.


#7 tristantio

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:58 PM

Why don't they just make all the servers uniformly PvP servers if there is no additional grief associated with playing on a PvP server?

While the leveling 1 to 60 is possible without too much griefing nowadays on a PvP server, it still remains possible to do daily quests, out door rep grinds, mineral farming, and mote farming on a PvE server without ever suffering time loss due to being ganked.

While I do agree that it's unfortunate to have a character stuck on a PvE realm, I do not think that PvP server players and PvE server players are on equal footing as far as the 60+ game goes. PvE server players can do all the out door level 60+ character advancement without any time loss due to PvP combat, whereas this is simply impossible on a PvP server (When my warrior is protection spec'ed doing his dailies, I'm pretty much fodder for anyone who decides to gank. If I could just save up 10,000 gold on a PvE server and then transfer to a PvP server, I think it would be somewhat imbalanced).

#8 Vectivus

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:00 PM

Why don't they just make all the servers uniformly PvP servers if there is no additional grief associated with playing on a PvP server?

While the leveling 1 to 60 is possible without too much griefing nowadays on a PvP server, it still remains possible to do daily quests, out door rep grinds, mineral farming, and mote farming on a PvE server without ever suffering time loss due to being ganked.

While I do agree that it's unfortunate to have a character stuck on a PvE realm, I do not think that PvP server players and PvE server players are on equal footing as far as the 60+ game goes. PvE server players can do all the out door level 60+ character advancement without any time loss due to PvP combat, whereas this is simply impossible on a PvP server (When my warrior is protection spec'ed doing his dailies, I'm pretty much fodder for anyone who decides to gank. If I could just save up 10,000 gold on a PvE server and then transfer to a PvP server, I think it would be somewhat imbalanced).


Half the player base actively chooses not to participate in world PvP by not being on a PvP server. If there's one thing Blizzard clings to (whether it's true or not), it's that they won't make decisions of this nature _for_ the player.

Frankly I don't know how you non-Nordic people can breed in good conscience.


#9 Nite_Moogle

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:01 PM

If you think half the player base is on a PVE server you're delusional.

The people that this stupid rule punishes the most are the ones that have been on PVE servers from the beginning, choosing to roll there because of horrid memories of EQ PVP or the uncertainty that PVP would end up being mostly fair and fun. Don't forget that when the game was launched, PVP death meant a durability hit and was a much more 'serious' thing than today.

Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.


#10 Benegesserit

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:04 PM

This thread is near and dear to my heart. Benegesserit, my frost mage on Arathor (PvE), whom leveled on Darkspear 1-70 and like 95% of her inventory and gear is from Darkspear, was denied access to ever going home again. While I agreed to the rules when transferring her, the GMs could provide no reasoning behind this case. The old arguement about levelling complications on PvP was completely drowned in the fact that my mage did indeed go through all the hardships to level on PvP.

So because of that, the account is now inactive, and I picked up a new account and am now a shadow priest. The day Blizzard pulls their head out of their asses on this one, the day she'll be logged again.

#11 Vectivus

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:05 PM

If you think half the player base is on a PVE server you're delusional.


I'm not talking half in terms of pure number of players. There are 99 US PvE servers and 101 US PvP servers - hardly a dramatic imbalance in favor of PvP.

Thanks for your meaningful contribution to the discussion, though.

Frankly I don't know how you non-Nordic people can breed in good conscience.


#12 Nite_Moogle

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:08 PM

Half the player base

I'm not talking half in terms of pure number of players.

Exactly what does player base mean if you aren't talking about the number of players?

Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.


#13 Lord BEEF

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:08 PM

I think denying PvE to PvP transfers made absolute sense when paid transfers were first made available. Given the age of the game, it would have cheapened the leveling process for many - I would gladly pay $25 not to go through the psychological trauma that was STV just after vanilla release.

With that said, I think the OP is correct - the age where that 'feeling' of having worked harder to achieve level 70 (achieve? hmm...) on a PvP server is no longer relevant.

This would feed well into their plans for WotLK, too, where they plan on having PvP enabled zones even on PvE servers. Pardon my French, but let's just cut the crap, and let people pick whatever server they want to play on.


Well put.

To add to this, If they did enable PvE to PvP transfers, I highly doubt that there would be many that would choose to level on PvE, then transfer to PvP at level 70. The few that choose to do so wouldn't be very disruptive in terms of server health I don't think.

Enabling the transfers would make the playerbase happy, and make Blizzard a few more bucks, a true win-win.

#14 JamesVZ

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:09 PM

PvE server players can do all the out door level 60+ character advancement without any time loss due to PvP combat, whereas this is simply impossible on a PvP server (When my warrior is protection spec'ed doing his dailies, I'm pretty much fodder for anyone who decides to gank. If I could just save up 10,000 gold on a PvE server and then transfer to a PvP server, I think it would be somewhat imbalanced).


That is all level cap content, which would be experienced by those who choose to transfer over to a PvP environment. Also, saying that just because you do those quests on a PvE realm means theres no competition for them is a bit of a stretching of the truth. I've actually done it on both types of realms, and the difference for either isn't exactly much. Certainly not worth the trouble of locking down the transfers like they are. My experience may only be my own in this situation, but then again so is yours.

It's just simply not about any of that. You can apply the same logic in that you can level up on a low pop/strong faction PvP server and complete dailies with much the same impunity as you could on any PvE server. Yet they don't disallow doing that. It is inconsistent in policy to allow one server type to transfer to the other, but not the other way around. If they had restricted transfers to same server type, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But they didn't, and they continue to ignore pretty obvious fact and reality in their decision to not remove them.

#15 Xav

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:10 PM

God, opening PvE to PvP transfers would enable some of my friends who made absolutely terrible decisions to like, rejoin the rest of us and play their main characters again.

In total agreement with the OP, anyway!

#16 Balkoth

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:12 PM

I think the main different between leveling on a PvP server and a PvE server is when the server is new. I've leveled to 60 to Aggramar, Sen'jin, and Staghelm (all PvE realms). I've leveled to 60 on Altar of Storms and Lethon (PvP servers). I also have a 70 on Sen'jin and a 70 on Lethon.

I do completely see how a new server with people scrambling to 60 was a very different environment depending on whether it was a PvP or PvE server back in vanilla. But now...meh. 1-60 is pretty much deserted. Even 61-70 isn't so bad. The only argument I can think of for Blizzard is thinking of WotLK leveling.

Using the example of the person saving up 10,000g on a PvE server...who cares? You can do the same on a PvP server, just might be slightly more difficult. And it's not like people who are hurt most by these absent transfers (raiders) are going to constantly want to jump ship. They want a solid home to play in, and everyone on a PvE server is cut off from a significant amount of realms. Conversely, people on a PvP server won't transfer to PvE in many cases for fear of getting stuck. It's just a horrible situation in general.

In sum: the differences between a PvP and PvE server are not extreme enough to warrant this distinction at this point in time.

#17 sadris

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:12 PM

I laugh everytime Juggernaut gets an app who transfers from a PVP server to Doomhammer, then they don't make it in. And then they are stuck in mediocre guilds forever, as most of the high-end guilds are on PVP servers.

#18 Lambach

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:14 PM

This thread is near and dear to my heart. Benegesserit, my frost mage on Arathor (PvE), whom leveled on Darkspear 1-70 and like 95% of her inventory and gear is from Darkspear, was denied access to ever going home again. While I agreed to the rules when transferring her, the GMs could provide no reasoning behind this case. The old arguement about levelling complications on PvP was completely drowned in the fact that my mage did indeed go through all the hardships to level on PvP.

So because of that, the account is now inactive, and I picked up a new account and am now a shadow priest. The day Blizzard pulls their head out of their asses on this one, the day she'll be logged again.


How is that pulling their heads out of their asses? Their rules have stayed the same, and as you said you agreed to them when you transferred, why would you think, or expect anything different?

#19 Myonax

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:14 PM

On Warsong there is always a continual battle at raid gathering point and whoever has the largest numbers controls the 25 man summoning stone. SSC if your faction isn't in control can take up to 2-3 death runs to get from the water to the portal. In Netherstorm if you don't control the stone you may have to wait 10 minutes for your 60% mount people to either take the Flightpath from Shatt to the eye. Repairs can also get frustrating, members of both faction in the eye love to park their mounts on the repair guy making it very difficult to click on the repair guy without accidentally attacking the alliance player. Same with SSC if another guild is outside gathering members and you need to repair quick you could take a few death runs to get to NPC and repair and get back inside.

I am sure everyone remembers the raid group towards the end of vanilla wow where the opposing faction would take turns MCing the main tank outside of Naxx for hours on end so that they couldn't raid. Leveling on a PvP server (specially since everyone is in outlands) is a minor inconvenience compared to a bored raid group.

I am on the fence on the issue as a whole, I have a friend who didn't understand the consequences of transferring his druid from a PvP realm to a PvE realm and then couldn't get it back to our realm. Most of the PvP that happens on a PvP server is in the BGs. I think most PvE player have never even contemplated what it means to control the stone, whether that is for 5 mans, 10 mans or 25 mans. PvE -> PvP has very little to do with leveling in my mind and has everything to do with travel and instance control. PvP probably adds 5-10 minutes on average to any individual raid/party members travel time. PvP even hass an effect on doing dailys, once Blades edge or Netherstorm gets crowded people will kill you to get their quest done faster and likewise you will do the same.

If you want to have a fair debate do not encapsulate this issue into how hard or how easy it is to level on a PvP server.

#20 Flavahbeast

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:18 PM

Half the player base actively chooses not to participate in world PvP by not being on a PvP server

I'm not talking half in terms of pure number of players


You didn't mean half of all players, you meant half of the "player base?"




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