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Raiding as a Tree


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#21 giansm

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 11:44 PM

Since it seems to be a common question I added a section on "who do I heal in a raid?". I think this can be a somewhat controversial topic so if you disagree with what I wrote then feel free to tear it apart for discussion.

#22 tritus

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 12:41 AM

I'm trying to get a feel for what raiding resto druids feel about the 4-piece Tier 6 bonus (Increases the healing from your Healing Touch ability by 5%). I made a post on Raids and Dungeons with hopes to get some attention from devs to change this to a treeform ability.

#23 Lord BEEF

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 12:56 AM

I think most would agree it ranges from "bad" to "useless".

The shaman healing set bonus was changed from 5% on lesser healing wave to 5% on chain heal, so I have some faith that they'll change ours eventually

#24 Ribeye

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 01:24 AM

This is a great post. I'm really impressed with the attention to not only the basics of being a healing druid but an attempt to deal with some of questions and discussions Druids have had since TBC came out. If after reading this you don't feel just a little bit enlightened, you're either already an amazing druid or should have just rolled a paladin.

#25 Reachie

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:18 PM

I'm trying to get a feel for what raiding resto druids feel about the 4-piece Tier 6 bonus (Increases the healing from your Healing Touch ability by 5%). I made a post on Raids and Dungeons with hopes to get some attention from devs to change this to a treeform ability.


I made one too, got about 4-5 pages, then fell off, makes me sad to see a terrible set bonus like that on our tier 6 gear :(
Healing is like music. The magic doesn't lie in the notes, but in the space in between.

#26 Noressa

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:41 PM

I'd consider having you put the downfalls of druid raid healing in that section as well. If there are no clear healing assignments, our HOT's will often be over-written, it takes (just using rejuv and lifebloom) at least 3 seconds for any tangible healing to show. Also, there's a higher tendency to use regrowth more often due to the lower cast time. The nice hp/s can't be replicated in raid healing settings unless the raid is taking constant damage. It's not bad for trash, but when you're at a boss, it's not very sustainable.

Compared to a 1.5 second flash of light for 180 mana, 1.5 flash heal for 470 mana (untalented), and chain heal which is 2.5 second cast for 540 mana but hits 5 targets only healing those who need healing, you're looking at a faster heal from just about every other class for a lower mana cost, assuming regrow. If using lifebloom we are a cheaper healer, but it takes 7 seconds for most of the healing to be realized.

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#27 Uldreth

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 04:16 PM

Regarding a spare weapon with Spellsurge, how are players finding that using a weapon swap mod is complicating lifebloom rolling?

If one is starting their roll out with the +81 weapon and then swapping, obviously, this isn't an issue. As we all know however, sometimes due to heavy movement or other factors, you have to start your stack over.

This is further complicated by the fact that weapons are not visible in tree form and also the fact that many of us are in the tank group anyway. So, is using a weapon swap mod a blessing or a curse for most?

#28 Anaram

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 09:16 PM

There are many ways to choose who you heal in raid healing situation. Usually the important thing is to make the choises other people aren't making.

First and foremost note this: if the raid can be kept up while priest/palas/shamans are topping off people with your HOTs on them, then you mostly shouldn't be needed on raid healing and should have been assigned to something else to start off with. If, on the other hand, you are losing people due to overhealing then there's actually room for improvement. The following is a rough list I compiled (for lifebloom) a while back It might or might not work for you, feel free to disagree:

-Don't heal the guy with lowest HP (he should already be getting direct heals).
-Don't heal the guy who's had damage longest, someone else has probably noticed this already. (fights where range or LoS are significant, ignore this one).
-Don't heal a group going from top to bottom, rather go from bottom to top (most healers tend to go top-to-bottom in my experience).
-Don't heal full groups that take damage, heal groups where only some have taken damage (when a full group takes damage, they are usually either in chain heal or CoH range and often with a shadow priest too).
-Heal groups you know will take more damage such as melee groups (you really should agree beforehand what happens here tbh. but generally don't heal the guy who's lost most HP).
-Prefer healing mages & priests over paladins, warlocks and hunters (most raiding mages/priests have much lower stamina than warlocks and hunters, mages must also use their 'stone' cooldown on mana stones instead of saving for healthstone. Paladins don't gain mana from final heal of lifebloom - although you healing them is preferable to them healing themselves, it's still better if another pally/priest/shaman does it. Paladins also got an extra personal escape ability over most classes).
-Usually prefer ranged over melee (other healers are better suited at healing melee).
-Prefer healing yourself over almost anyone else (someone else *might* have a potion/stone/cooldown to save themselves with, if you don't save yourself some other healer still has to).

In short: your job is to predict who others will heal and heal someone else instead. Your job is to prevent people from falling into critical danger range so people who operate heals there (=direct heals) don't get swamped. If everyone's doing emergency healing, you'll have awfully many people dropping into emergency range because there's nobody to catch them before they do. And once too many people drop at once, there's bound to be significant healing collisions usually resulting in death.

In the end though it comes down to experience. Usually it's also awfully lot easier to predict who others will be healing by talking to them beforehand than trying to guess during the fight. :>

#29 Nazta

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 05:16 AM

It might be an idea to add "/cancelform" at the start of the 2.3 macro. Although it will leave it automatically, some people will turn that option off(like myself). These people probably know that they have to add it, but could be worth mentioning.

#30 Benhoof

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 09:02 AM

First of all thanks for this great healing guide. I like it especially since it almost 100% correlates with my personal opinion about Healing Druids. And it does not contain crap like saying you have to go 0/0/61 for raid healing.



Some remarks:

The power of this technique lies in the fact that tank spike deaths often happen in a short 2 second window, which lifebloom is guaranteed to tick once in and maybe tick twice.


This is wrong. During 2 seconds Lifebloom will allways tick exactly twice unless it expires.

And one could add that due to the 1s tick interval Lifebloom will tick at least once before a Flash of Light hits sometimes twice. If you consider lag, it is quite possible for Lifebloom to tick even three times before any reactive heal lands.



Also, it may be a good idea to give some numbers about how much healing your spells contribute during a standard boss fight.

From my experience, Lifebloom typically provides ~70% of your healing output. Rejuvination gives gives around 20% and the rest is provided by Regrowth, Swiftmend and Healing Touch, depending on the encounter.



Also for consumables, one may add Elixir of Mastery to usefull Battle Elixirs, since it's giving Stamina, Spirit and Intelligence, which can be of advantage for some fights. However, I agree that for most encounters Healing Power is the better joice.

#31 Benhoof

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 09:34 AM

Spirit-based regen: The two most popular trinkets that fall under this category are [Bangle of Endless Blessings] and [Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon]. If you plan to innervate yourself due to mana issues, the Bangle is worth 1820 extra mana each time you innervate. With 500 spirit, the Blue Dragon card is currently worth 800 mana each time it procs. In patch 2.3, with 500 spirit, the Blue Dragon card will be worth 660 mana per proc (due to the increased power of Intensity).


Some additional information on these trinkets, since I use them a lot on mana intense fights.

According to wowhead, Blue Dragon has a 2% procchance. This matches with my experience, that it procs about every two minutes. Now, given the 800 Mana per proc at 500 Spirit, this converts to ~33 MP5. Which means it still is the best regen trinket available.

Endless Blessings should have a procchance of 10%, but from combat logs it seems only to proc twice as often as Blue Dragon due to the 45 second internal cooldown of the proc. For one proc it grants 15% additional spirit based regen. Which gives about ~33*0.15*2 = ~10MP5.

Also, if you have both trinkets you may want to wait for Blue Dragon to proc to activate Endless Blessings for additional 200 Mana. Due to the two minute cooldown it may be ready again for the next proc or innervate if needed.

#32 giansm

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:48 PM

This is wrong. During 2 seconds Lifebloom will allways tick exactly twice unless it expires.


Thanks for pointing this out. When I wrote "maybe twice," I guess I was thinking of the lifebloom ticking exactly in the middle of the two-second interval, but then it would have also ticked on both ends. I suppose this could be considered one, two, or three ticks depending on your definition of "two second interval" (open, half-open, closed) but it's such an edge case that you are right and lifebloom for all practical purposes ticks twice.

I'll be adding your contributions about the Spirit trinkets soon. I don't have a Blue Dragon card so it helps to have someone with experience talk about it.

#33 Noressa

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 09:51 PM

Ah, another note. Golden Darters don't have a school, the pools they can be caught in are Highland Mixed Schools along with Furious Crawdad.

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#34 giansm

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:17 PM

Hmm. I've never actually seen a Darter school but I believed the info on Golden Darter - El's Extreme Anglin' since it seemed to be a reliable site in the past. Personally however I've always fished them from outside Allerian Stronghold. I'll take out the reference to Darter schools just to be safe, since they are pretty reliably catchable from open water.

#35 dukes

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:20 PM

Ah, another note. Golden Darters don't have a school, the pools they can be caught in are Highland Mixed Schools along with Furious Crawdad.


There's definitely Golden Darter schools as I've fished them before (killing basilisks for eyes around Terokkar rivers, just fishing all schools I saw) - generally they're pretty rare though.

#36 Noressa

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:35 PM

Oooh, thanks for that. I could have sworn they were only in mixed highland school. I'll have to fly around and check for them. That's fine, leave them in. I've honestly never seen one.

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#37 delle

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 04:50 AM

Oooh, thanks for that. I could have sworn they were only in mixed highland school. I'll have to fly around and check for them. That's fine, leave them in. I've honestly never seen one.


I believe that there is only one golden darter school up at a single time so in the time you spend flying around looking to see if it is even up you could have just fished in regular water and gotten about the same number of Darters

#38 Pyros

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 05:05 AM

I'm wondering, since this seems the right place to ask, is there a website that has a list of all the resto druid gear, ranked based on stats, like the one for feral gear Index of /emmerald ? I know for healing finding the best gear is a bit easier especially for a druid, but I'm sure someone theorycrafted the weight of spirit(tree) mp5 and healing to find which gives the highest efficiency in various situations, so maybe someone made a website ranking all the gear based on that?

If not I guess I'll just go thru wowhead. But just in case, what I'm looking for specifically would be a preraid gear set, the best one you can find out of heroics/pvp/normal instances/quests/crafted. Maybe someone actually made that list, so asking before I go thru the pages of loot myself.

#39 Makaio

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 06:28 AM

I always use wowhead, and just run searches for different slots. It helps to use the upper end iLevel so you're not searching for gear from instances you're not in yet.

I am a +heal stacking druid, and will gem almost everything for 18 heal over the 9+2mana/5. You can regen so many ways, and can only effectively stack healing with gems and gear. Between food, oil, SP group, and BoWisdom, that a ton of mana. When needed, I chain pot. I'm no mathinator, but I go by the rule of thumb that chain potting is 100mana/5. For healing, you could up your oil to brilliant, and use fish sticks, and that's about it. I recommend every druid have a look at their gear, and consider regemming to all +18, with of course some exceptions where it makes sense.

I've gotten really used to my lifebloom bound with my LCPB and rejuv bound to Essence of the Martyr. I get a lot more up time with the clicks than when I was directly clicking. Sure, the buff can be kinda wasted sometimes, but I can generally find a target for a lifebloom. My only beef is I can suppress the on screen error message, but I still get the audio. Any idea how to change that?

Golden Darters definitely come in schools, and they spawn multiples. You just have to make sure to fish out all the feltail pools people leave behind. They will come back as darters eventually. If you want to just fish open water, the pond right next to the east exit of Shatt is a great spot, and requires lower fishing than Skettis.

#40 Carlos

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:04 AM

I can confirm darter schools and at very good times you find 2-4 in the rivers at the same time. I did fishing rounds down there to get to 375. When I knew a guildie was going after sporefish in Zanga.




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