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WWS and 2.4 sample logs


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#21 Koosha

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 10:01 PM

From what I've heard, WWS Scoreboard manually updates their stuff. Thats why only guilds with Top 100 kills, non-anonymous and non-'cheating' logs get added.


4. Why is my report missing?

* We only pull data from WWS on a limited schedule. New reports may take a couple days to appear.
* We check each report to verify it is valid. This is done by comparing the amount of damage done to a known baseline. Reports with bad splits/merges will report too much or too little damage and be marked as invalid.
* We require that your guild WWS reports include a link to your guild's homepage. Reports without this will appear as "Unknown - No Website Listed".
* Guilds that have repeatedly edited their combat logs will have all future reports marked as invalid.
* We only pull the top 200 reports for character parsing. If you have an exceptional player DPS in an encounter that does not make the top 200 reports, we can parse it manually. In that case, please allow 2 days from the time the report was posted and if the player DPS still has not appeared, send us an e-mail at the link below with the reason for requesting a manual parsing, the guild name, server name (including US or Europe), and a link to the WWS report.
* Please remember to recalculate your DPS based on damage/time and ensure that this would place in the top 25 of character reports for the class on that boss.

From WWS Scoreboard

#22 Miles

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 02:37 AM

Not really on-topic but since I can't make new topics yet (I'm a read everything before making a noise guy), I guess I'll reply here. I've reverse engineered the default Blizzard Combat Log to create a complete list of events and parameters. As far as I can see, this new system is *very* easy to parse. Too bad they didn't picked the ParserLib-x format instead of rolling their own, but it's miles (no pun intended) ahead of preg_match or java.util.regex.Pattern.

The list can be found at devel:wow_combat_events_in_2.4 [DokuWiki], license is CC-BY-SA so feel free to repost, edit and extend it.

If you have any captured logs, please link them in this thread too. The WWS-forums kinda failed to load here. I'm interested in verifying a rewrite of one of my mods (WoW24 broke MCL as expected) and getting some data into one of my pet projects, a log analyzer (read: shinier version of WWS). The last one was kinda abandoned when Blizzard announced the CL change, now I just can't wait for the patch to go live.

#23 Macked

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 04:00 PM

Macked here, one of the programmers for wwsscoreboard.com

If you have any questions about our methodology or general suggestions, please contact us at wwsscoreboard@gmail.com

We try to answer as many e-mails as we can.

@fola

For a fight that has a healing factor the numbers will be off, there is nothing that we can do about this. We rank raids by dps, so even if a guild takes slightly longer to kill a mob, but their dps is higher, they will be ranked above a guild that takes less time to kill the boss, but has a lower dps.

@Malan

Yes, we do have a valididty check. Multiple layers actually. As stated in the faq, we compare each kill to a known baseline that's correct. After this we see if there were dual reports uploaded that have the same kill time/dps time. We find a lot of people upload anonymous reports, and then instantly upload a guild report. This is all done automatically. Some stuff still gets through and we have a secondary check that we run ourselves to validate/invalidate reports.

If a guild has two reports for the same boss on the same day with different times. We take the one that has a longer time, since it contains more data. If both times are the same, but the dps is different, same thing as before, we take the one with the higher dps since it has more data in the combat log.

I hope this helps, and as i mentioned, email us (or post on our brand new forums!) any questions you may have.

Cheers
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#24 Kyth

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:33 AM

If you have suggestions, we'll keep an eye on both threads, so feel free to post ideas.


It's very confusing, when you're looking at the details for a caster, that it only shows the number of non-crit, non-miss nukes cast. This has caused huge amounts of problems for most people I know who use WWS, because it's non-intuitive that what you need to do is click on the line to get a drop-down of the details, add those together, and then do the same for the person you want to compare them to.

No one is ever comparing "number of non-crit nukes" that two people cast, and that summary line could be far better used if it at least combined crit and non-crit.

A simple calculation of "uptime" for dots would be very nice to have in the detail. Fight length divided by the number of dot ticks basically. I do this manually now.

Finally, it's easy to calculate what VT should have returned (based on spriest dps and fight duration) versus what it did (based on number of ticks), and having this efficiency percentage easily viewable would also be awesome.


I don't know if this matters/is fixable, but: it seems lifetap isn't counted as a combat action for locks, so a destruction lock ends up with an oddly low combat percentage (and higher dps) as a result because "shadowbolt, lifetap, lifetap, shadowbolt" takes more than 5 seconds between supposed-combat actions.

If I'm wrong, ignore me :).

#25 ninor

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:54 AM

When you search for fights vs a specific boss it would be nice if the default view listed total damage done in addition to what is there now (Date, Raid DPS, Guild name and Class setup). Would be helpful in sorting out at a glance which parses not to bother looking at in certain fights.

#26 rooppa

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:22 PM

When you search for fights vs a specific boss it would be nice if the default view listed total damage done in addition to what is there now (Date, Raid DPS, Guild name and Class setup). Would be helpful in sorting out at a glance which parses not to bother looking at in certain fights.


Forgive me for this, but on damage done, wouldn’t this be exactly the same for virtually all kills where the boss does not heal? (allowing for a slight varience in over killing the boss at the end of the fight)

Boss has X health, so cause X damage on boss, boss dies.

#27 Chicken

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:34 PM

Forgive me for this, but on damage done, wouldn’t this be exactly the same for virtually all kills where the boss does not heal? (allowing for a slight varience in over killing the boss at the end of the fight)

Boss has X health, so cause X damage on boss, boss dies.

It's mostly meant so you don't open up a kill thinking "Whoa, these guys do bad ass DPS!" only to find out that they included some NPCs as pets; that does still produce the same overall health on most fights, but it makes a difference on Teron Gorefiend for example.

#28 Guest_alkis_*

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:54 PM

It's mostly meant so you don't open up a kill thinking "Whoa, these guys do bad ass DPS!" only to find out that they included some NPCs as pets; that does still produce the same overall health on most fights, but it makes a difference on Teron Gorefiend for example.


Or even worse they added (using a script) X amount of damage on each of their attacks to make their dps look awfully high.

#29 rooppa

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

I understand now then, in that case then the addition would certainly make sense for ease of perusing the latest updates.

#30 Trouble

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:34 PM

This doesn't have anything to do with the parser itself, but it would be great if the top dps list on WWS wasn't filled with garbage parses. Adding a few filters should go a long way towards cleaning those lists up:

- Figure out an acceptable total damage range for each fight. A lot of the bad parses are simply ones that have bad merges and have double total damage. Very easy to filter these.

- Don't show anonymous logs. A large portion of the bad parses also happen to be anonymous. For top ranking purposes people are usually more than happy to take credit for their kills.

- Don't allow parses that are obviously duplicates. The combat log provides date and time, this should be pretty simple to do.


Those simple changes would go a long way towards getting workable top dps lists, rather than the garbage that's up there now for nearly every boss.

#31 Shamanaut

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:51 AM

This doesn't have anything to do with the parser itself, but it would be great if the top dps list on WWS wasn't filled with garbage parses. Adding a few filters should go a long way towards cleaning those lists up:

- Figure out an acceptable total damage range for each fight. A lot of the bad parses are simply ones that have bad merges and have double total damage. Very easy to filter these.

- Don't show anonymous logs. A large portion of the bad parses also happen to be anonymous. For top ranking purposes people are usually more than happy to take credit for their kills.

- Don't allow parses that are obviously duplicates. The combat log provides date and time, this should be pretty simple to do.


Those simple changes would go a long way towards getting workable top dps lists, rather than the garbage that's up there now for nearly every boss.


This is exactly why we created wwsscoreboard.com. I was sick of trying to cut the wheat from the chaff every single time we posted a report. It started as an internal guild project to make my life easier (Thanks for thinking of me Macked) and grew into a pretty good tool for digging into WWS.

It is also something that Lossendil is looking at. Wow Web Stats • View topic - This website might be sapping your bandwith

99% of bad damage parses are caused by bad merges where nothing actually gets merged. These consistently show as 200% damage of every other report. I won't give away our exact methodology for wwsscoreboard, but the band we use is much smaller then anything less then 190% of the baseline is good. However, I'd bet that we'd eliminate 99.5% of what we eliminate if we just used 190% of baseline as our standard.

I've never understood why people continue to post anonymously. Death and Taxes is taking 16 minutes to kill Illidan still, yet they posted it. Trust me, even the best guilds wipe. We all know this, we experience it and we move on. Take anonymous off. Seriously. Or at least give us a simple option to remove it from the rankings.

While there are some parses that are duplicates, a surprising number are actually caused by bad inserts into the WWS top reports, where a report is being placed in twice. 30-40% of the duplicates fall into this category. Look at how many duplicates point to the exact same raid id. I was frankly surprised by that. Fixing this is simple though. If the same character appears in the same boss kill for the same guild on the same server on the same day (Adjusted to UTC), don't display it a second time. This even takes care of separate guildmates posting their own logs. If there are two reports with different damage and kill time, accept the longer report as valid (As it will capture more data) and if time is the same, accept the higher damage (As it will also capture more data) provided it falls into the damage band set for that encounter.

Finally, give guilds the ability to place reports on WWS that will not appear in rankings. This will allow those guilds that post edited logs (Such as removing Teron Ghosts or erasing the first few seconds of a pull) to post reports without skewing the rankings. A simple flag in the Report Settings would do.

#32 Cthalupa

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 06:31 AM

The ability to display DPS/Healing by phase of an encounter - ie, 'splitting' an encounter into phases that can be viewed independent of one another

This can be done. Go to the specific kill/attempt/whatever you want to look at, then go to Timeline & Splitting. It isn't automatic, but it lets you view each phase, or even specific bit of time, as it's own report.

#33 Asgorath

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:56 PM

The Death Replay is a fantastic feature, but it would be great if we could get something like Assessment's Flat Death List, which shows the deaths in the order they happened for a given attempt. When reviewing wipes, I find it extremely useful to be able to review the deaths in the order they happened, since there's often a cascading effect. This is currently somewhat difficult to do via WWS.

I've also noticed that the Death Replay will end up taking more than one page, and hitting the "next" link ends up with just a raw log page rather than one filtered by the player who died. Not a huge deal, but this confused me for a while (I couldn't figure out why the Death Replay missed the line "X has died.").

#34 racy

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:09 PM

I am also interested in sample combat logs from the 2.4 PTR. I have a few short ones that I have used to make an offline log parser. I need longer ones from dungeon runs/raids etc to make sure it works correctly. The tool I am working on is on curse as Wow Log Parser.

Wow Log Parser | World of Warcraft Tools | Curse

I would appreciate it if someone could post one since I cannot get my character copy to go through, hehe.

#35 SOaD!

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 02:25 AM

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your suggestions.

If I sort them by number of requests, we currently have :

  • Sorting (Search engine)
  • Death management (Sorting deaths by time)
  • Graphs
  • Statistics presentation

  • The search engine will be revamped from the scratch soon after the 2.4 client release. It includes everything that can be put into a search (comparing guilds, classes into a single report, cross-report comparisons, etc.)
  • It's in the TODO list, but currently no release date.
  • Graphs are on the work, and we do not plan to put bar charts when graphs are better (DPS, TPS, etc.)
  • The render engine will be revamped from the scratch for the 2.4, and we're thinking about DPCS and things like that but nothing has been modelized yet (about new statistics).

The ability to split phases is not that easy to build in a generic way, because phases are not declared in the CL. If you have ideas feel free to post them.

Erroneous reports are not that easy to find. Each combat can be easily analysed, but a generic engine is really harder. Nevertheless we have some good ideas (that has been listed for the majority of them on most forums). As a side note we don't like exceptions treatment because the current WWS overall engine is a huge load yet, and will be increased in some ways at the 2.4. But don't worry, it is planned, we can't keep cheated reports longer.

I'm sorry to answer so late, but the 2.4 take us much time because we have to rebuild everything from the scratch (parser, network communications, server apps, and many other things). As many things have to be recoded it's the best time for us to restart on better bases. So put every relevant ideas you have else if it has been said before.

If the experience is fine, I think I will stay closer with the EJ community in the future for the enhancement of WWS. And I want to thank the EJ guild for its help. :)

Nevertheless, any poll we'll do regarding new features or modifications to WWS will be done on our forum because I can manage them easier, so stay tuned.

Don't forget that we need logs and logs and logs, and bigger is better but everything is okay. Currently we're particularly interested in different points of view of the same encounter (raids are the best for that) and as many as you can.
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#36 Malan

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:06 PM

The ability to split phases is not that easy to build in a generic way, because phases are not declared in the CL. If you have ideas feel free to post them.

Well yah not every fight works with this, but take Kael'thas for example. Phase 2 begins when Telonicus dies, and ends X seconds later when the advisors come back to life. Phase 4 begins when Kael emotes "Alas, sometimes one must take matters into one's own hands. Balamore shanal!", and Phase 5 begins when he emotes "I have not come this far to be stopped! The future I have planned will not be jeopardized! Now, you will taste true power!"

Not every fight would work with phase splits, especially the ones that are revolving doors where 2 phases repeat indefinitely. But I think it would be an amazing tool for fights like Kael, Vashj, and anything else that has very definite boundries between phases. Obviously right now there aren't too many fights where this is possible (Kael, Vashj, Magtheridon, Alar, Zul'Jin are about the only ones I see a definite division between phases), but its definitely something that would be nice to have when looking to the future. It could have more application on some Sunwell bosses or things in WoLK.

#37 koaschten

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 04:12 PM

Malan, the problem with shouts usually is ... they don't show up in the combat log. So unless you have a parallel log of the chatlog or a mod logging boss yells, you are kinda lost.
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#38 Malan

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 04:21 PM

Well that was just the easy division. If the shouts aren't in the log then Phase 4 begins when Kael begins to cast a Fireball or is hit for the first time, and phase 5 begins at the first gravity lapse being cast.

#39 Mardraum

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 05:18 PM

It would be nice to be able to do a "custom split" of an encounter not based upon "time line of the raid" but being able to select actual events in the combat log as the start and stop points of the split.

#40 SOaD!

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 12:37 AM

@Mardraum,

We'll see what the search engine will provide, but it is a search feature. So the question is : will the search allow event searches. I can't answer yet, but we'll thougth about that.


@Malan,

Yes, as I can remember every encounter with relevant phases has shouts. And any way we can think of to split need two things : a manual entry for each phase on each boss, and a significant cpu load added.
We currently think about changing the way reports are loaded to avoid multiple queuing when browsing logs, so it will free cpu load.
but we really need to be cautious with that because if we miss something it can result in a total overload of the system.

I'm a raid player, and I'm the first to wish a phases split, but our first restriction is a hardware restriction.
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