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#4141 kaib

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 09:28 PM

So, what are you going to level with? As I see it there are two options:
1. Deep Affliction and taking some demon talents as you advance.
2. 21 Affl to Siphon Life and then rest in demon and use Felguard from 71 onwards.

Mobs in the first areas have 10.000 hpish which rules out destro imo, three nukes are required to kill a mob way too often, which makes it very inefficient.
On beta I used the 2nd spec and was quite happy with it. Between Dem Resilience and imp Health Funnel I could solo every group quest including five-men tagged elite NPCs. If you have good gear, any mob will die from Siphon Life/CoA/Corr while the Felguard just tags along on defensive and helps out.

Now when I leveled on beta, the Haunt healing effect was crap, which made Affliction a lot worse then it is now. Between using Haunt on CD and an occasional SL/Drain Life, Affliction can pull a similar amount of mobs but has higher dps. Felguard also makes up for a decent bit of the lost damage, especially the cleave is quite powerful.

So in the end it comes down to higher dps output & cast time spells vs more survivability along with more solo-group-quest-capabilities. Plus affl/demon also offers more protection against getting ganked, although in general the guy jumping usually wins anyway, no matter if you are affliction or demon and you should beat when jumping someone else with either spec as well.

I'm pretty much torn between the two specs, would be nice to hear what others are going with and why.

#4142 Guest_Afterglow_*

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 10:59 PM

I'm pretty much torn between the two specs, would be nice to hear what others are going with and why.


As somebody levelling on a PvE server, it's definitely going to be deep affliction for me, at least for the first few levels. Just about zero downtime (thanks to Dark Pact, Haunt, and Siphon life).

And you can't get much faster than most mobs dying in around 3 GCD's - just put up the 3 instant-cast DoTs, hit tab, and start dotting up the next target. Felhunter on defensive, and throw in an occasional haunt/tap/pact as neccessary, and you can keep going almost indefinitely.

I only levelled to 71 on the beta - but it certainly worked nicely in the starting areas. If it gets tougher later, as my lv70 gear becomes less effective, I'll probably reconsider speccing for a Felguard.

#4143 Woggle

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 11:01 PM

Haunt does not benefit from Ruin, it is not a destruction spell.


D'oh. How could I forget that. Well, at level 70 I will stick to Haunt over shadow bolt. At level 80, it will be even harder to decide what to cast between Haunt's cooldown and it falling off..

On the topic of leveling: I guess for 'pure' power-leveling, meaning only caring about xp, the full-affliction spec seems to be the better choice, something between 51/10/0 and 56/5/0 to start out with and adding more points to demo while leveling, as ISB/bane are not necessary when tab-dotting. Elite quests are not needed while leveling (besides that level 2-3 player quests are easily solo-able, especially when fear works) and can be done for gold at 80. That builds lacks some survavibilty, but I guess master summoner can be picked up for some sort of flexibility.

#4144 Juised

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 11:46 PM

Hi, I'm a long time reader, but this is my first actual post.

Responding to the debate about the best time to cast Haunt, I believe that waiting till 12-1.5*haste() to cast nor immediatly after the CD is up is the best use of the spell. Rather one must estimate about 8 to 12-1.5*haste() seconds into the future to determine if you will be able to recast it then. Granted, this is difficult for a simulation, such as SimulationCraft to model. As a suggestion, when I created a quick simulation to try and get a feel for the flow of Affliction, (just a quick little thing that would evaluate spells in a DPCT order and display which to cast) I included 2 different conditions for casting Haunt. Highest priority was Duration-1.5*Haunt(), to recast if the buff was going to fall off. But then I included another condition that would cast Haunt any time the CD was up, and prioritized that just above Shadow Bolt at the bottom of the priority queue. While far from a perfect model (still might cause issues with Haunt expiring at the same time as other DoTs) I'm pretty sure that it is a better method of modeling when to cast Haunt rather than just when it comes off CD or when it is about to expire.

P.S. Hi Guys!

#4145 Fulgurite

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

Depending on how things work out, I may stick with destruction, but AOE level. Basically the strategy is to pull with a combination of my pet and Seeds, then Shadowfury/Rain of Fire to finish them off when everything is grouped.

That was my general strategy for clearing Scourge Invasion mobs by myself, and I could easily take 6, possibly 7-8 at a time. Those mobs all have between 9,000 and 10,000 health, so it's fairly similar to Wrath mobs.

The thing I never liked about Affliction is even though you had the mobs dotted up to die, you couldn't move too much or they would leash back. I did level 1-70 as Aff though.

I've had a lot more fun soloing things as destro, though it's different now with Chaos Bolt because you can't sac a Fel Hunter. If I go for a 0/30/40 spec, maybe I'll sac one again, see how the downtime is with both Fel Armor and a sacced Fel Hunter ticking. Destro's advantage in killing the mobs in a few nukes is that they don't hit you for as long when you're aff, so you have less incoming damage to heal back up.

#4146 Fimotik

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:20 PM

It is true, you just misunderstood me.

What I was saying was that some people see +1% Crit and think, "Aha! 1% more DPS!" which is incorrect so long as you have non-zero Crit. However, the absolute worth of 1% Crit is always the same no matter how much Crit you have (ignoring ISB-like mechanics).


Whilst the maths in these posts has been correct, the in-game dynamics does add some extra flavour. For example, with any metagem or talent that boosts critical damage (e.g. Chaotic Skyfire Diamond), you're comparing a 100% hit v. 203% crit, so it tightens the margin slightly. The other thing someone eluded to but didn't expressly state in a previous post is that crit is better DPM (damage per mana), because you're getting twice as much damage for the same amount of mana spent. The downside of crit is the RNG factor (or an upside depending on the roll).

#4147 Sinthia

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 08:21 AM

It seems to me that most everyone's guess on when to recast haunt is wrong. One of the problems that Simulationcraft doesnt take into account is that haunt has a travel time. What this means is that at max range of 30 yards, it will take 1-1.5 seconds for haunt to actually hit the target. Therefore you actually want to recast haunt when it has 3-2.5 seconds duration left, and not actually 1.5*haste before it falls off.

It also seems like the debuff counts the travel time in its duration, ie when it hits it only has 10 seconds left! I could be wrong here, if anyone can confirm this it would be appreciated. When haunt had a 10 second cd it seemed to fall off with no way for me to prevent it on Brutallus. I haven't tried affliction again since the patch, I will probably respec affliction and try again this Tuesday to see if 8 second cd have solved this uptime issue.

#4148 Razumikhin

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 05:41 PM

Shadow Embrace doesn't appear in my timers unless I hit the mob with a Shadow Bolt or Haunt before another warlock with this talent. I believe that 3.03 was supposed to fix problems with Shadow Embrace, but has anyone tested this yet? Thanks.

#4149 Issa

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 12:21 PM

Can only say sofar that I noticed the same thing, with another affli in the raid, my shadow embrace won't show on my bars. Sofar I haven't been able to find anything on this on the wow-europe-forums.

#4150 Zephro

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 01:16 PM

I've been noticing strange behaviour with Haunt and Corruption. I respecced Affliction for the first time in a year last night and I was futzing around with the level 70 test dummy in Undercity. Haunt didn't seem to boost Corruption's damage by 20% as stated, it was considerably less. And when Haunt fell off, the Corruption ticks were for less than they were before it was applied.

Interestingly, the Haunted Corruption ticks were 20% more than the post-Haunt ticks.

Has anyone else had this problem? I got the impression it was some problem with the component of Haunt that resets Corruption perhaps ignoring one or several of the Corruption boosting talents, so your "new" Corruption spell ends up being less potent than the one originally cast.

#4151 Sidewalk

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 04:57 PM

Interestingly, the Haunted Corruption ticks were 20% more than the post-Haunt ticks.


Haunt: Rank 2:

You send a ghostly soul into the target, dealing 487 to 569 Shadow damage and increasing all damage done by your damage-over-time effects on the target by 20% for 12 sec. When the Haunt spell ends or is dispelled, the soul returns to you, healing you for 100% of the damage it did to the target.

Hence the reason why you keep haunt up and never let it fall off. (unless of course your dots fall off, which is another problem entirely).

#4152 fallenman

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 06:19 PM

I've been noticing strange behaviour with Haunt and Corruption. I respecced Affliction for the first time in a year last night and I was futzing around with the level 70 test dummy in Undercity. Haunt didn't seem to boost Corruption's damage by 20% as stated, it was considerably less. And when Haunt fell off, the Corruption ticks were for less than they were before it was applied.

Interestingly, the Haunted Corruption ticks were 20% more than the post-Haunt ticks.

Has anyone else had this problem? I got the impression it was some problem with the component of Haunt that resets Corruption perhaps ignoring one or several of the Corruption boosting talents, so your "new" Corruption spell ends up being less potent than the one originally cast.


Actually, what you're seeing is the current bug with Everlasting Affliction.


Corruption recently had its coefficient buffed to 120%. Right now, when corruption is refreshed via EA (casting haunt for example), the refreshed corruption reverts back to the old 93.6% coefficient. This is what is causing the behavior you're seeing.

#4153 Zephro

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:34 AM

Actually, what you're seeing is the current bug with Everlasting Affliction.


Corruption recently had its coefficient buffed to 120%. Right now, when corruption is refreshed via EA (casting haunt for example), the refreshed corruption reverts back to the old 93.6% coefficient. This is what is causing the behavior you're seeing.

Ah, I see. Thanks. I guess Blizzard must be aware of this, let's hope it's fixed in the next patch.

#4154 Reuben

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:13 PM

Fallen, you said you have tested many specs extensively and I was wondering how UA/Ruin build came out. I am thinking something along the lines of : WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warlock -> Talent Calculator

Key talents being 3/3 Pandemic, Eradication, and Malediction, and using Spellstone.

It would be a fairly easy rotation to maintain, CoE, maintain UA and Corruption and maximize Shadow Bolt casts. I believe that even if it came up a small percentage short of a straight destro build (which is what I usually raid with), the overall flexibility of the spec will be very handy.

Your thoughts from testing?




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