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#41 Deathwing

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:08 PM

How could you get 10 ticks in 8s? it would take 3 dots 9 seconds just to get 9.

#42 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:13 PM

Curse of Agony ticks every 2 seconds.

0 CoA ticks, Corruption ticks, Siphon ticks, 2 CoA ticks, 3 Cor/Siph tick, 4 CoA ticks, 6 All three tick, 8 CoA ticks. 11 in exactly 8 seconds actually.

#43 Deathwing

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:16 PM

Heh, shows how much I use that spell. I would still just average it out a typical 8s period

1 - 0.85*(16/3+4) = 78%

Though, I don't get why people are saying it's overpowered. With the 10s cooldown, you can assume it's around 12% haste over time.

For a fire destro build, I would say emberstorm is better than that.

#44 Kuradoberi

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:18 PM

Demonic Empowerment with felguard sounds rather fishy...
Only comparative talent I can find is Bestial Wrath, 31 pointer in Beast Mastery Tree of Hunters, 2mincd + lasts for 18s.

2.0 base weapon speed. 18s = 9 white hits
20% haste = 2.0 / ( 1+ ( 20/100 )) = 2.0/1.2 =~ 1.67.
1.67 base weapon speed. 18s =~ 10/11 white hits.

So every 1min, felguard can gain up to 2 more white hits IF Demonic Empowerment last 18s.

With my gear and a 6/44/11felguard spec, according to leulier, in a solo environment :
White hit = 474 damage.
Pet dps = 335 dps.

+1 white hit per minute = 474/60 =~ 8 dps. 8/335*100% =~ 2% dps gain for the felguard.
According to leulier, pet dps = 25% of your own dps. 2% gain over 25% is not a whole lot :P

I have no idea how hard a felguard hits in a raid environment, so take this fishy math with a pinch of salt.

#45 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:26 PM

Empowerment is 15 second duration (so 25% uptime) I updated it in the post... It may not even be worth using if it triggers your global cooldown, I think it's main purpose is for the anti-stun/slow.

#46 Kuradoberi

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:31 PM

Empowerment is 15 second duration (so 25% uptime) I updated it in the post... It may not even be worth using if it triggers your global cooldown.


With a 15s duration, it still only gains up to 2 more white hits. ( 7.5 nonhasted hits without and 9 hasted hits )

#47 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:44 PM

It is only one talent point, and it would give 21dps to me in a raid situation on leulier, plus it would also increase the likely hood of demonic pact remaining up at 3 stacks. This is ofcourse assuming pet scaling remains the same.

I asked a hunter and bestial wrath triggers global and both are written in a similar fashion (instant cast with mana cost). So likely this talent is nearly useless in raids.

#48 Ruaduun

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:46 PM

I have no idea how hard a felguard hits in a raid environment, so take this fishy math with a pinch of salt.


Just checked last Hyjal Logs:
Swing: 1090 Hits/427 avg/1249 max
Cleave: 382 Hits/506 avg/1310 max (loads of sheep that night so had to turn off cleave quite often)
And he did roughly 13% of my dmg (Hyjal trash with all that SoC spam might account for that low number)


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#49 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:53 PM

Just checked last Hyjal Logs:
Swing: 1090 Hits/427 avg/1249 max
Cleave: 382 Hits/506 avg/1310 max (loads of sheep that night so had to turn off cleave quite often)
And he did roughly 13% of my dmg (Hyjal trash with all that SoC spam might account for that low number)


Ruaduun


Well since your armory links to a rogue and I can't check your gear level, and the majority of that data is on trash with no cor/sunder/faeriefire/retpaly etc it isn't all that useful of information. Regardless demonic empowerment is not really a raid talent unless pet scaling is buffed significantly and you can find a way to get empowerments off while moving or when losing a global isn't a problem.

#50 ninielin

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 07:55 PM

Mmmm as far as I m looking at talents, its UA for leveling and early raiding then switching to full destro ( sound like deja vu eh). Demo spec has way too many pvp talents currently to be interesting for raiding apart from using a felguard ( which is already the case in live wow). Demonic emp looks cool on paper then you realize its made for arena and clearly not for raiding. The improved imp stuff got me interested but right now its not viable unless the imp can dps thru phasing ( which won't happens for pvp reasons). The imp will get destroyed in any raid situation (atlhought fully talented he could do some serious dmg and the crit talent is really neat).

If I was level 80 with my current stats ( including rating scaling), a 0/21/50 would totally decimate any other kind of spec. The only talent I m dubious about is the ont that increase immo/conflag/shadow crit by 10% looks like a pvp talent mostly considering you're never going to cast conflag in a raid cycle and that you won't have to refresh immolation so the 10% crit is mostly useless.

For the people saying spirit talents suxx etc, you need to take into consideration the fact that blizzard want to use generic cloth armor for every single casters so they are trying to make spirit usefull for warlocks. Indeed right now you have 177 spirit ( I actually have 300 in raids so will give me 60 + dmg with improved spirit from priest and 78 after a crit) right now but at level 80 in wotlk you'll probably be closer to 400 + unbuffed because there ll be spirit on every single piece of gear and a free + 40 dmg ( 56 after a crit) on top of mana regeneration ( thanks to the fel armor change) is nothing to sneeze at.


Ps: my apologies if my english is bad, not my first language and I m quite excited at all this stuff so writing too fast ^^

#51 Montegomery

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:12 PM

If I was level 80 with my current stats ( including rating scaling), a 0/21/50 would totally decimate any other kind of spec. The only talent I m dubious about is the ont that increase immo/conflag/shadow crit by 10% looks like a pvp talent mostly considering you're never going to cast conflag in a raid cycle and that you won't have to refresh immolation so the 10% crit is mostly useless.


Actually, I skipped Imp Immolate, Conflag, and that talent entirely for my hypothetical raiding builds. You're only going to cast Immolate once in a blue moon thanks to Incinerate refreshing it, so increasing its initial damage isn't going to be that useful. Similarly, you only rarely use Conflagrate in raids. As you won't be casting Immolate, won't be casting Conflagrate, and Shadowflame is a short range cone, that talent is definitely PvP.

#52 manly

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

I could be off but the models I've seen so far of
"Eradication(25 point) - Your Corruption, Siphon Life, and Curse of Agony ticks have a 5/10/15% chance to increase your spell casting speed by 20% for 8 sec. This effect has a 10 second cooldown."
seem way off from what I expect to see. I will try and ignore for a second that COA is unlikely to be up there on a boss.

First off, I am assuming one target (because obviously the interesting part of this is for multi-target dotting imho -- particularly Atrocity, the 15y AOE corruption).

I am not sure about the 'normal' cast order of the dots, so I'll assume COA->CORR->siphon. It shouldn't affect much the results the order that you do them, but in any case, this is what I assume. This also assume no spell haste.

0.0 - [COA cast]
0.5 -
1.0 -
1.5 - [CORR cast]
2.0 - COA tick
2.5 -
3.0 - [siphon cast]
3.5 -
4.0 - COA tick
4.5 - CORR tick
5.0 -
5.5 -
6.0 - COA tick, siphon tick
6.5 -
7.0 -
7.5 - CORR tick
8.0 - COA tick
8.5 -
9.0 - siphon tick
9.5 -
10.0 - COA tick
10.5 - CORR tick
11.0 -
11.5 -
12.0 - COA tick, siphon tick

Each of those basically mean you have 15% chance to proc Eradication, but if eradication procs, then for 10s it won't proc. In other words, it might take on average ~6 seconds to get a proc. So picture roughly 8 seconds of downtime for 8 seconds of uptime.
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<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
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#53 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

Personally I don't like affliction at all for leveling and I am planning on leveling as 0/21/40 shadow with new points going into soulleech/shadowfury/kindred soul and aftermath. Felguard/ruin also looks good with new points going into fel synergy, demonic resilience, and getting those 25 good talents in early destro since the hit will be needed as you level.

#54 Anexus

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:22 PM

Well the machine gun imp spec would basically use felguard (but with a bunch of wasted talents) in situations where it would die. Felguard isn't that brittle.. It would basically be getting 2pc T5, -5% dmg taken, and +1000hp at level 70 levels from the new talents.


You're right. I somehow got the idea Demonic Pact only applied to the imp. It applies to all pets.

With reference to the original post. Unholy power has never been threat reduction. It is and will still be +20% pet dmg. Master demonologist is threat reduction when using imp and are being changed as you stated.

#55 ninielin

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:22 PM

Planning fire destro for leveling I think with sacced VW for 2shotting mobs fun ^^

I m curious to see how haste rating will scale. Mainly because by the time the expansion is released I will be full sunwell with around 25% haste. Dps will take quite a hit going level 80.

Other than that, I m currently scratching my head trying to figure out how I ll spe once 3.0 is out ( before the expansion). Probably full destro or sacri/destro. and thanks to the new cataclysm we will be able to take every single sunwell item ( magister staff going the way of the dodo :P )

#56 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:29 PM

Assuming the talents/spell changes come out before the expansion I don't see any reason to spec something other than 0/21/40 at 70 for pure damage. A 48/3/10 spec would certainly take over as the best utility malediction/shadow embrace lock spec (over 40/0/21, and 43/8/10).


Edit: Corrected a couple errors on the orignal post and add a new spell.. Demonic Circle.

#57 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 10:03 PM

Something else interesting I found in the files.

Shadow Ward (Rank 6)
670 Mana
Instant cast 30 sec cooldown
Absorbs 3300 shadow damage. Lasts 30 sec.

Seems as though they are significantly buffing shadow ward.

#58 Guest_Akston_*

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 10:21 PM

Wouldn't 1/21/49 be the way to go for fire destro with a point in Imp Corr to help with molten core uptime. Even at 80 or even 60% have immo fall off would be extremely rare especially with any amount of haste.

#59 Flamingcloud

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 10:31 PM

You are assuming the molten core proc is on dot tick, my assumption is that it is on dot application. Even if it is on dot tick, you can't achieve any kind of good uptime with just corruption. 1-0.9^2 for 19% uptime or a +1.9% dmg increase, costing you 4-5 talents as well as a lot dmg for casting corruption instead of incin(corruption isnt at +15% like your fire spells) and loss of +critical damage.

#60 Antiphonal

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 10:42 PM

Just a guess - but it seems that Metamorphosis is a way for a warlock to _become_ the VoidWalker so that they could tank an instance. I'm guessing at least 5-persons/heroics, and perhaps even serve as an offtank in some raid encounters. It seems strange to give a class a new role (though warlocks traditionally tank in Leo and other fights). Whether or not this talent goes live its presence in the Alpha shows that apparently nothing is off the table. :D


EDIT: Whoops! 45sec duration. I leave the post as a testament to my stupidity. Eek!




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