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PvE DPS / WotLK Discussion


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#4241 Troisloeil

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:38 PM

The realms were taken down last night to correct the problem, and all items that were purchased for free or without the required rating were removed from the characters who purchased them.


Just had the Blue post come through.

Realm Maintenance 11/12/2008

".....Once the maintenance concludes, players who obtained such items will notice them removed from their inventory. However. any tokens or arena/honor points spent on said gear will be appropriately refunded. -Cinterome"

At least if you actually bought something you won't get screwed. I know a couple of my guildee's bought some of their Brutal gear yesterday.

I have a feeling for the next week the game is going to be...interesting, in the Chinese way.......

#4242 MasterDinadan

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:25 PM

Just had the Blue post come through.

Realm Maintenance 11/12/2008

".....Once the maintenance concludes, players who obtained such items will notice them removed from their inventory. However. any tokens or arena/honor points spent on said gear will be appropriately refunded. -Cinterome"

At least if you actually bought something you won't get screwed. I know a couple of my guildee's bought some of their Brutal gear yesterday.

I have a feeling for the next week the game is going to be...interesting, in the Chinese way.......


And what if you wasted money on gems and enchants for these items? I'm not talking about the ones that were received for free, but for people who actually spent the honor or arena points buying the items AND the gold to gem and enchant them, only to have the items taken away. Even if you get the honor and arena points back, you still have to gem and enchant them again.

#4243 Demi9OD

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:53 PM

Rogue PvE DPS / WotLK Discussion

#4244 Kjallstrom

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:53 PM

Hit rating caps at level 80 with 5/5 Precision and either Improved Faerie Fire or Misery

Mob level|Specials|White|Poisons
80|0|623|0
81|17|640|0
82|33|656|0
83+|132|755|237


A quick addendum to these lookup tables: if you're Alliance, there's a fairly good chance you'll have a Draenei with Heroic Presence in your raid (and as of 3.0.2, this is a single buff from all Draenei classes giving +1% to both melee and spell hit). Depending on raid composition, it may be possible for you to be grouped with a Draenei, which would allow you to swap out some hit (admittedly, only ~33 hit rating) for something else.

Hit rating caps at level 80 with 5/5 Precision, a Draenei in your raid group (and within 30 yards), and either Improved Faerie Fire or Misery
Mob level|Specials|White|Poisons
80|0|591|0
81|0|607|0
82|0|623|0
83+|99|722|210


#4245 Shaker

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:55 PM

Need a Draenei in the GROUP, not just in the raid.
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#4246 jorysaywut

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:00 PM

2. HaT is group only not the entire raid. Spreadsheets have always assumed optimal situations. Pre 3.0 for example, group buffs were key for a rogue, a single member dying could lead to a significant decrease in a rogue's DPS. This is the same for HaT...

Also, PS to others: Stop referring to shadow dance in any serious HaT spec. 43-44 points are the most you should ever pick up in Sub if you are serious about raiding as HaT.


While I agree any spec would see a loss of DPS with certain raid members dying, HaT gets hit harder by a party member death because you'd lose a source of combo points along with the raid buff they were providing. I can see the progression spec argument going both ways. In certain scenarios like you being one of the last alive, your DPS would be gimped compared to a typically specced rogue. On the other hand, your defensive CDs may allow you to live longer to finish the boss off. In any case, I think most rogues would agree it's a pleasant surprise that there might be a 3rd option later in raiding.

I've only really seen one mention of Shadow Dance along with HaT and have yet to see anyone specced for it as well. I've only mentioned it in terms of playstyle comparison not actually stating it's a viable use of points. I don't really know what you mean by others.

Hope everyone has fun sleeping 4 hours a day on their way to 80 =P

#4247 drumbum

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:12 PM

A quick addendum to these lookup tables: if you're Alliance, there's a fairly good chance you'll have a Draenei with Heroic Presence in your raid (and as of 3.0.2, this is a single buff from all Draenei classes giving +1% to both melee and spell hit).


Thanks. I've added the information to my original post. I also believe that Heroic Presence is only party-wide, unless someone has evidence to the contrary.

#4248 Vearux

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 04:36 AM

I don't know where else to ask for this information so I'll start here.

Has anyone ran numbers or done anything theorycrafting for a Mace Combat build and how much dps is generated over or under a Sword Combat build?

#4249 saedo

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:00 AM

Has anyone ran numbers or done anything theorycrafting for a Mace Combat build and how much dps is generated over or under a Sword Combat build?


I'm pretty sure spreadsheets handle that. For the most part I believe with equal quality weapons, mace spec still loses.

#4250 robfang

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 12:57 PM

I still wanna test a few things this week and if someone can help, it will be appreciated. Does HaT proc from dot crits of like a shadow priest (any crit off gcd is great)? Does HaT proc from heroic strike? Does putting a third HaT rogue increase or decrease dps? (can go either way, I think it will actually increase it even more). What's better imp snd or actually ruthlessness. I know someone said who needs an extra combo point when you have a fast inflow of them, but the main thing in this build is to use eviscerate as often as possible and going from s streak of 4pt eviscerate to 5pt eviscerates is sizeable increase in dps.


I am quite interested in the hat builds because of the opportunities it opens for us. One example is that we will be able to spam deadly throw in no-melee fights if we group with hunters. Can you post a WWS report of your fights? That way we can analyse the fights ourselves.

#4251 Arindelest

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:25 PM

I am quite interested in the hat builds because of the opportunities it opens for us. One example is that we will be able to spam deadly throw in no-melee fights if we group with hunters. Can you post a WWS report of your fights? That way we can analyse the fights ourselves.


Your DPS spamming Deadly Throw would still be abysmally low. You would just bring a ranged class.

#4252 MrBlackhat

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 12:03 AM

Your DPS spamming Deadly Throw would still be abysmally low. You would just bring a ranged class.


Deadly Throw spam would be good on fights like the high king during whirl, gargoyles that are not quite low enough in hyjal, striders on vashj while waiting on naga spawns, supremus chase phase, or other similar fights where you cant stay in 100%. Atleast, it would beat doing absolutely nothing waiting to get back on target.

#4253 Synthetic703

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:51 AM

Two questions, with a HaT spec would you want to get daggers for CQC or would swords do more dps?
And some post say that in 25 mans the rogue never has a down time on CP, but HaT works only in group wide, so do the extra CP come from gear or are they getting more CP form critting raid members?

#4254 Ashere

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:28 AM

Two questions, with a HaT spec would you want to get daggers for CQC or would swords do more dps?
And some post say that in 25 mans the rogue never has a down time on CP, but HaT works only in group wide, so do the extra CP come from gear or are they getting more CP form critting raid members?

1) To get the most out of your poisonprocs, you'd want very fast daggers. To get most out of the occasional hemo you'll be throwing if your group isn't optimal, you'll want another weapon. Preferrably fist weapons, so CQC would still apply. Swords would be behind these two options.
2) The extra CP come from the crits within your 5-men group within the raid, which depends on both the gear they (including you) wear and the buffs they have. Obviously, in a 25-men raid there's a bigger chance to get all the good stuff in buffs than there is in a 10-men raid or a 5-men party.

#4255 Synthetic703

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:01 PM

1) To get the most out of your poisonprocs, you'd want very fast daggers. To get most out of the occasional hemo you'll be throwing if your group isn't optimal, you'll want another weapon. Preferrably fist weapons, so CQC would still apply. Swords would be behind these two options.
2) The extra CP come from the crits within your 5-men group within the raid, which depends on both the gear they (including you) wear and the buffs they have. Obviously, in a 25-men raid there's a bigger chance to get all the good stuff in buffs than there is in a 10-men raid or a 5-men party.


What poisons would be best for that fast of attacks?

#4256 Bryt

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:18 PM

What poisons would be best for that fast of attacks?


You would still be using wound poison and deadly poison on your weapons.




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