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Instant Health Updates


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#21 Saerjin

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:45 PM

It's happening to me too with MSBT, everything shows as overheal. It's definitely worth being able to see damage instantly rather than 1-2 seconds later though.




Agreed.

#22 Flunx

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:50 PM

I just installed this addon and some times it seems that it just doesn't update the health bar at all. Other than that it's a pretty sweet addon. Anyone know what might be causing it? I'm using Pitbull, SCT and Recount if it matters.

#23 Guest_Alv!ra_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:59 PM

Will be testing this on tonights raid. Hopefully any conflicting issues with this and MSBT will be sorted soon, as I use the scrolling battle text to show how much my heals land for on the target. Doesn't matter as much with recount really, as that isn't used in combat. I can imagine not being able to trust msbt might be quite annoying though...

Anyways, by the looks of it this is some awesome work and seems to have a lot of potential to it. And almost better, it's still version 1.0, so there's probably still lots of room for improvement :-)

#24 giansm

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 05:08 PM

I've never liked the way those addons determine overhealing anyway. If I remember correctly, they rely on the fact that UnitHealth() updates slowly and they do something like:

1) Receive an event that says I healed a unit
2) Check how much the heal was for
3) Subtract UnitMaxHealth() - UnitHealth(), use that as the health deficit
4) Compare #2 and #3.

Seems kind of unreliable since it basically relies on slow updates to UnitHealth, since the UnitHealth call is made after the heal event is received. By the way I just checked Violation and SCT, they both do it this way. Not sure about other addons since those are the only two I have that calculate overhealing.

#25 Athonis

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:25 PM

As a resto shaman, I'm usually taking care of topping off raid damage during fights, and I try to be as proactive as possible. Unfortunately, raid damage usually requires a more reactive touch, on average. For example, the trash sentinel's (in Sunwell) chain lightning... when someone in raid gets hit by this, I immediately find the person with the greatest health deficit in raid (usually a lock or SP (lifetap and SW:D)) and bounce a chain heal off of them to top off the raid. Based upon all indicators after installing this addon, my overheal was > 80%. This led me to believe, intuitively, that my healing was mostly ineffective, even though the combatlog (WWS) proved differently. I'm going to have to ignore recount and SCT unless they make the same changes as this addon does, and heal 'blind', as it were.

On the other hand, I don't really care what the numbers say. The success of a raid is more important to me than topping meters, and if I can accept that the healing I'm doing is actually effective, regardless of reported heals, then I should be fine. Instantaneous reporting of a person's health is by far the more important.

Mod is highly recommended, and good job to the author.

#26 Meloeth

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 08:26 PM

Several have pointed out that the health bar doesn't update at all sometimes until damage or healing is received. I haven't really had the time to look into it yet, but it's very likely caused by the health going up to full without the addon noticing. After the health reaches full no more HEALTH_UPDATE events will fire so the health will keep showing incorrectly until the health changes. I will try and fix the bug as soon as I have time (hopefully tomorrow) and see if I can fix it.

There where some questions about how the addon handles effects increasing the max health of a unit, such as using last stand for example. The addon listens for the MAXHEALTH_UPDATE event that fires whenever the max health of a unit changes, at the same time as the MAXHEALTH_UPDATE event fires, HEALTH_UPDATE fires, if the unit gained health from the ability or item used the health won't match the calculated health by the addon. When this happens the addon uses the health provided by the server/client instead of whatever it thought the unit would have and does any further calculations based on that health instead.
This is a important important safety net the addon has, every time it receives a HEALTH_UPDATE event it calculates backwards until the last HEALTH_UPDATE event to verify that the calculated health is correct.

As some have wondered and others guessed health is updated the old fashioned way when someone is not in combat log range, a good example that has already been brought up is the Kalecgos fight, those "not in the realm you are in" will simply have their health updated like normal.

Several have pointed out that damage meters doesn't show correct effective healing done. Many (most?) addons uses the method described by giansm I believe and that would explain why they don't work properly with my addon installed. I don't know if all damage meters uses this simple method however (WWS reports is a example of another method used), but it is my hope that they do... because if that is the case all I should have to do is make sure my addon is the very last one to react to combat log events. This would not only fix the problem but increase the accuracy of the damage meters! (since without my addon several hits and heals can land in between every health update)


I will try and fix both the bug and effective healing issue tomorrow, whatever I don't get done with then will have to wait a whole week though I'm afraid (short vacation). A big thanks to all the comments so far, I really appreciate the feedback!

#27 Daboran

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:01 PM

Wouldnt there be a way for the addon to ONLY affect grid and no other addons?

That would be a lot more interesting from my point of view, but I'll give it a try anyway.

#28 Yahve

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:33 PM

Would it be possible to make this addon work for debuffs as well ?

I always noticed the same kind of delay with decursive even with the refresh rate set to the minimum.

#29 Biozera

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 12:11 AM

Damage meter authors could easily remain unaffected by this addon, given one change. If the addon is optionally dependent on known damage meters, those damage meters will load first. They will therefore have a chance to save a local copy of the unmodified UnitHealth function.

This would be a cleaner solution than having all other addon authors look for "Original_UnitHealth" in my opinion.

#30 frmorrison

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 12:14 AM

it's absolutely amazing, I didn't realize how much lag affected seeing health bars drop.

#31 Ottoline

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:24 AM

I'm worried about really busy addons such as damage and threat meters causing an FPS drop in raids. Would this addon contribute significantly to that problem?

#32 Rudy

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:25 AM

I'm worried about really busy addons such as damage and threat meters causing an FPS drop in raids. Would this addon contribute significantly to that problem?


I believe it is stated in the mod's description that the memory useage is very low, like 100kb in a 25 man raid.

One concern I have is in regards to chain heal. I would assume the second and third jumps go off standard server information, would it be possible then to heal too quickly and miss the jumps? For example, on Nalorakk I see the MT and OT have taken a lash as soon as it happens through this mod. If I cast a chain heal on the MT before the server has actually updated that they both took that damage, I assume my second jump will still register the OT as full health and not jump. This could obviously be worked around by holding off the cast a few split seconds and I'll certainly use this mod regardless, but it is a potential concern.

#33 Prinsesa

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:01 AM

Kudos to this add-on's creator, I absolutely love the fast health updates. I was topping people off left and right in BGs and could feel the difference immediately.

I also use MSBT, and while I did notice that nearly all of my heals were showing up as overhealing, I can't argue with results.
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#34 Kaoz

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:34 AM

Pretty amazing how something this huge, yet so simple, can only be thought of this late in the game. It makes raiding much easier, especially at higher levels where split seconds really count.

Kudos.

#35 Fulnir

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:47 AM

Tried this addon out in a 5-man dungeon last night and I simply couldn't get used to it as a healer. The reason for this is that my parrot outgoing heals and my custom dogtag for target health still rely on the server update unit_health (I think, my only explanation). So when I healed someone the Parrot and target health text would appear with a delay. I use my Parrot text as conformation on what I'm healing, so my cycle was totally broken when I had to wait for the results showing up, that and the text update being out of sync with my actual healing almost made me seasick, so I had to turn the mod off. I love the idea though, but unless I can fix those two addons to behave synced to my bars I cannot change to this mod. Such a shame.

#36 Ragnor

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:49 AM

It would probably be fair to say it wasn't possible or at least worthwhile doing something like this pre 2.x combat log rewrite.

Also regarding the performance of this mod... memory use is irrelevant you'd need to turn on cpu profiling and look at the cpu statistics. The affect is probably going to be negligible on say a quad core and significant for people running on old tech with low fps already.
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#37 Guest_Ammo_*

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:37 AM

1) Receive an event that says I healed a unit
2) Check how much the heal was for
3) Subtract UnitMaxHealth() - UnitHealth(), use that as the health deficit
4) Compare #2 and #3.


This is in fact the only 'reliable' way to calculate overhealing. But Blizzard has announced we will be getting overhealing information in WotLK.

#38 xenios

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:41 AM

I tried this out during tonights raid, simply amazing. It is surprising how much of a delay we are all used to, after using this I don't want to go back. Once you find a solution to the other addons using your function rather than the original when needed, this will be on many peoples required addons list. I am even surprised something like this is even possible. I would have never thought blizzard would allow you to basically globally override a core ui function.

Keep up the good work!

#39 Louiscypher

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:26 AM

This idea really appeals to me (i am a healbot user though) so my question is, will this add on also work with it?

#40 Polleke

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:47 AM

I don't understand why you keep referring to HEALTH_UPDATE when the event is called UNIT_HEALTH. Makes it a bit confusing.

Regarding performance. You shouldn't look at memory usage for this addon, it will be very low. CPU usage will increase, and perhaps not nessecarly by this addon. Every addon that listens for UNIT_HEALTH will perform their calculations a few more times per second. A lot of ace addons will have set UNIT_HEALTH as bucket event tho, limiting the times parsed per second to somethign reasonable like 10 or 20 times.

Yes, it would be very possible to limit the fast updates to your only your unitframes and not screw up your healing meters and other addons. And I would expect such modules to appear for Grid and Pitbull very soon.

There is no possible way this addon can change the jump behaviour of chain heal.

It also does not disable the original UNIT_HEALTH and UnitHealth(). It simply adds additional events and information. If it has nothing extra to add all the original information will still be available.
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