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Restoration WotLK Talents and Discussion


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#21 rava

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:10 PM

With all of the new Earth Shield talents it's going to be quite beastly. Even comparing it to the 2000+heal version on the wiki it's going from 11.2 healing/mana to (provided my math is correct) 16.5 healing/mana.

I don't know the ES coefficient because I'm bad so I did backwards math: 5058/6-270=573, 573/2000=.2865(hope that's right!) Then ((.2865*6+.25)/6*2000+270)*8/450
Base Coefficient, Base Charges, Imp Lightning Shield/ES talent bonus coefficient, +Heal, Base Healing per Charge, New Number of Charges, Mana Cost

I wasn't entirely sure how to put in the coefficient, if it's wrong please correct me.
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#22 PsyBomb

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:17 PM

I can live with them buffing our other spells to give us more versatility, espeically in a PvP setting.

But if they turn shaman into "Paladin" with crit based heals and single target focus healing, I'm switching to a different tree.

Raid healing is the most fun in the game and Shaman are retarded at raid healing. I do hope they give out some new spells abilities that affect chain heal. Only buffing our single target heals would be a bad move in my opinion.

I do use LHW fairly frequently while raiding, and having it get a couple buffs would be super cool. The new weapon buff sounds cool too, but will it be worth giving up your mana oil is the question.


I'm assuming an 11/6/54 spec (although where we're going to pry the points from is anyone's guess at this point), and the combination of increased Int, extra MP5 from Water shield, and clearcasting will more than make up for the 18-odd MP5 we'd recieve from the newest rank of Oil. Thus, the new weapon buff is a clear winner. I'll edit in my build soon.

EDIT:

War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

good LORD talent choices are difficult now. I had about 10 more points I would have loved to be able to spend that I just couldn't. Seriously considering dropping Improved Earth Shield for the last 2 points of Tidal Mastery, it all depends on just how good Ancestral Awakening turns out to be.
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#23 Skyhoof

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:20 PM

Here's a nice mock-up of the new talent trees that Phlis posted in the Elemental thread. The wording of the talents doesn't appear entirely accurate. For example, Elemental Focus doesn't mention healing spells, etc.


War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

You could perhaps do an 11-6-54 build: War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

It's nice to so easily be able to get the improved GoA and Strength totems now. Quite a new DPS boost for melee in your group.

#24 rava

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:27 PM

Here's a nice mock-up of the new talent trees that Phlis posted in the Elemental thread. The wording of the talents doesn't appear entirely accurate. For example, Elemental Focus doesn't mention healing spells, etc.


War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

You could perhaps do an 11-6-54 build: War Tools :: Talent tree WotLK - Test

It's nice to so easily be able to get the improved GoA and Strength totems now. Quite a new DPS boost for melee in your group.


Healing focus is only supposed to be 3 points now. I had a similar build in mind but I didn't plan on picking up the Cleanse thing unless there was a practical raid use for it, seems more pvp oriented with all of the deathknight stuff being disease based and all that other jazz. That would free up 3 points for Tidal Mastery, and then drop the point in Ancestral Knowledge for a 4th. The crit honestly feels too good to pass up in the current state of things.
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#25 Fenzter

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:35 PM

good LORD talent choices are difficult now. I had about 10 more points I would have loved to be able to spend that I just couldn't. Seriously considering dropping Improved Earth Shield for the last 2 points of Tidal Mastery, it all depends on just how good Ancestral Awakening turns out to be.


No joke. I'm not sure I want to get rid of Nature's Guardian. I know it's been the cause of me living through a fight a two numerous times. It will be interesting to see what other changes to the resto tree WotLK brings. In the current state, LHW and HW have an edge on CH. But like Skyhoof said, I'd expect some CH updates as well.

#26 madrix

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:37 PM

Trying to think of a way to get all 14% crit bonus to LHW and HW as that would be very interesting indeed. Coupled with the ancestral awakening that could be very effective healing.

Thinking a 1/6/64 Raiding PvE build. Get all 14% to crit and nature's guardian.

Leaves alot of options depending on what the shaman is doing. If going to continue with chain heal spamming, you can for go the talents to LHW and HW and put them else where. Even pick up the clear casting for mana efficiency.

#27 Skyhoof

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:39 PM

Healing focus is only supposed to be 3 points now. I had a similar build in mind but I didn't plan on picking up the Cleanse thing unless there was a practical raid use for it, seems more pvp oriented with all of the deathknight stuff being disease based and all that other jazz. That would free up 3 points for Tidal Mastery, and then drop the point in Ancestral Knowledge for a 4th. The crit honestly feels too good to pass up in the current state of things.


Where did you see the change to Healing Focus? If Healing Focus is only 3 points, then I would probably go 11-8-52 and max out the new Ancestral Knowledge talent.

#28 Fenzter

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:40 PM

What I don't get is why they would make a clearcasting proc focused around two heals that I don't use in a raid environment. Unless they are going to dramatically change the way Shaman heal(which would be silly), then giving out very specific talents like that just sounds like more respec costs to me.

#29 Daidalos

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:44 PM

It looks like they are not done with the Resto tree. I would expect to see new ranks of Chain Heal added in the future. I don't really see any changes that make me think Blizzard wants to take anything away from Chain Heal. It simply looks like they are making LHW and HW much more attractive options and giving shaman more versatility.

This is also my assesment and assuming we are right I am quite happy about it.


Healing focus is only supposed to be 3 points now. I had a similar build in mind but I didn't plan on picking up the Cleanse thing unless there was a practical raid use for it, seems more pvp oriented with all of the deathknight stuff being disease based and all that other jazz. That would free up 3 points for Tidal Mastery, and then drop the point in Ancestral Knowledge for a 4th. The crit honestly feels too good to pass up in the current state of things.


I would agree that the value of criting is going to rise substantially Possibly surpassing haste as the highest HEP but its really too early to tell atm. I think the other big unknown is how much raid dmg will there be? If Lich king has more of a sunwell style encounter design I'm still thinking that chain heal will still be the primary heal.

I do really like the large range of extra heal Ancestral Awakening possibly making it superior in situations where there is a fair amount of raid dmg but its randomly distributed possibly out of CH jump range. I'm curious if it has to heal another person or if it could heal that same person twice. Say its a tank n spank fight and the raid is topped off but the tank spikes low would it heal him twice? That would be a huge amount of single target healing. From that wording I'd say its quite possible. The other quite nice scenario is when the healer is the low and throws a heal on a tank getting that heal on yourself would also be quite handy in that kind of situation.
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#30 rava

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:44 PM

Where did you see the change to Healing Focus? If Healing Focus is only 3 points, then I would probably go 11-8-52 and max out the new Ancestral Knowledge talent.


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#31 zoombini

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:46 PM

Very nice stuff - although Blizzard just made the bloat already present in resto even worse. My initial pass through the tree ended up with 62 points in there.

The thing I'm curious about is how will spirit link work. Offhand I can't think of any buffs that work on exactly 3 friendly targets, let alone working on 1 friendly and 2 other friendlies. I can think of two ways this could work:

1) You cast it on the tank, and then you need to right click on the two people they're linked to. VERY cumbersome, but it gives control and would be very useful if macros allowed us to automatically link the same 3 people together.

2) it links the tank to the 2 closest people. This is dicey - it requires good timing by the shaman and good positioning by the raid so the link doesn't end up going onto a rogue or passing mage. Also would be troublesome on fights where the tanks need to stand close to soak up meteor style stuff - fights like Mother or Bear boss.

Also, we won't know the answer to this anytime soon, but I wonder how mitigation will work on this. Will it figure out the total damage the tank would take, and then give 1/4 of that in a non-resistable format to each soaker? Or could you split it to an avoidance/resistance tank who'd barely take any damage?

Also, I'm curious as to what would happen if you had 3 shamans spirit link 3 tanks to each other? In 3rd Edition D&D, there was a way you could use a situation like this to achieve omnipotence . . .

#32 rava

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:53 PM

I do really like the large range of extra heal Ancestral Awakening possibly making it superior in situations where there is a fair amount of raid dmg but its randomly distributed possibly out of CH jump range. I'm curious if it has to heal another person or if it could heal that same person twice. Say its a tank n spank fight and the raid is topped off but the tank spikes low would it heal him twice? That would be a huge amount of single target healing. From that wording I'd say its quite possible. The other quite nice scenario is when the healer is the low and throws a heal on a tank getting that heal on yourself would also be quite handy in that kind of situation.


With the current wording it sounds like it would target the tank. You also get a little bit of discretion on who the secondary heal will target with Spirit Link provided you're critting, but as you said it's largely dependent on the style of encounters wotlk will house. My original thoughts were to link the tank with paladins so they could get spiritual attunement or snakes from a snake trap :x I doubt you'll be able to link pets once it actually goes live though.

Also, we won't know the answer to this anytime soon, but I wonder how mitigation will work on this. Will it figure out the total damage the tank would take, and then give 1/4 of that in a non-resistable format to each soaker? Or could you split it to an avoidance/resistance tank who'd barely take any damage?


I assume it'll work along the lines of Blessing of Sacrifice. It does unmitigatable/unavoidable damage. It actually works amazingly well with chain, 3 targets ect.

I was under the initial impression that it would be targeted, but after thinking about it a bit I'd assume it will follow some sort of rule on proximity making you force it on to specific people.
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#33 Valderen

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:25 PM

I'm not much of a raider, so this is mostly in the perspective of a casual raider(10 man stuff). I mostly do 5-man stuff.

I find Spirit Link quite interesting, Chain Heal is our best heal, but often in 5-man instance it is not as useful as noone but the tank is taking damage.

Noticing that Improved Chain Heal is a requirement makes me think that it might be intended as a way to insure that you can always use chain heal by spliting the damage between 3 targets, this way even in 5-man instance you can use chain heal all the time with 3 garanteed heals maximizing it's use.

Not sure how much use it would be in raids where I am sure that more 1 person always need healing. :)

#34 PsyBomb

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:37 PM

The following assumes a "closest 2 friendlies" function on Spirit Link.

The raid precision "required" by Spirit Link is not really there. Keep in mind that each of the two other targets will be receiving at most 25% of the attack. Even in Saber Lash situations, they should survive the blow. using this on the main tank during a Saber lash fight (Halazzi for example) would take the edge off of the person taking the most directly, instead putting it onto the guy who is just sharing the cleaves.
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#35 Daidalos

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:38 PM

Not sure how much use it would be in raids where I am sure that more 1 person always need healing. :)

My first thought was something along the lines of mother sharaz but instead of the boss doing it for you, the shamans have to do it or the tank gets one shot. Something like mother 2.0 hitting for 60k dmg where 2 other dmg soaks have to split it to make it manageable. I'm sure there can be other uses but that jumped out at me as something that seemed very likely.

I'm wondering if you have to use it on 3 people. Could it be used in 2v2? hrm wording seems to imply there have to be 2 nearby targets.. but maybe not.
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#36 PsyBomb

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:51 PM

My first thought was somthing along the lines of mother sharaz but instead of the boss doing it for you, the shamans have to do it or the tank gets one shot. Something like mother 2.0 hitting for 60k dmg where 2 other dmg soaks have to split it to make it manageable. I'm sure there can be other uses but that jumped out at me as something that seemed very likely.

I'm wondering if you have to use it on 3 people. Could it be used in 2v2? hrm wording seems to imply there have to be 2 nearby targets.. but maybe not.


Not so sure about that, the spell will have a hard cap on how much it can disperse, and Blizzard is against forcing certain SPECS into raids. forcing base abilities, sure, but not specs.
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#37 Valderen

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:53 PM

I'm wondering if you have to use it on 3 people. Could it be used in 2v2? hrm wording seems to imply there have to be 2 nearby targets.. but maybe not.


I wonder that too, and can it be clicked off by one person. If the main target clicks it off, I guess it would break the link...but can 1 of the other 2 player affected click it off, creating a link between the main target and just 1 person, or will it also break the link completly.

#38 Daidalos

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:54 PM

Not so sure about that, the spell will have a hard cap on how much it can disperse, and Blizzard is against forcing certain SPECS into raids. forcing base abilities, sure, but not specs.


Yeah I can't see the talent tree from work is it a skill or talent? Sky listed it as a skill so I was thinking all shaman would have it. So if only certain resto specs have it maybe not.
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#39 Skyhoof

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:59 PM

I'm going to assume that because Spirit Links requires 2 points in Improved Chain Heal that it's going to link to the two closest targets, perhaps based on highest absolute health or who is missing the least absolute health. I don't think we'll be able to select who is in the Spirit Link. I'm also going to assume that like most talents deep in a talent tree, Spirit Link will have at least a 2-minute cooldown.

I'll also make it clear in the first post that it's our 51-point talent.

#40 s4dfish

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

Is there any reason to suspect that Spirit Link wouldn't use the same mechanics as Chain Heal (baring seeking targets who have less than 100% health)?




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