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Discipline and Holy WotLK Talent Preview and discussion.


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#41 Pitbuller

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:42 AM

800 effective HPS is the maximum.


From WWSscoreboard: Sk-gaming fastest kill. 4:27
Top healer Mackelina, paladin 2957hps, 52% overhealing. So 1420hps.
Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

#42 Iliyan

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:54 PM

You also get 10s of OO5SR regen every time holy concentration procs. But since I have no idea how much regen a level 80 raid buffed Priest is going to have I can't tell you how much mana that would be. Does anyone have a numbers to pluck in?


Wrong, Improved Holy Concentration has been changed to 20% haste after you gain Holy Concentration for 20sec.

There is a malfunction on the Talent Calculator here

Yarr! Tools :: Priest 8472

and ranks 2/3 and 3/3 of Imp holy concentration show the "old" version of the talent.

Btw, I've thought up a Holy CoH spam build, don't know if it is any good, but I would like your opinion. Maybe I should sack mental agility, but it is very powerful for CoH raid healing.

Yarr! Tools :: Priest 8472

Also, there is this little possibility that should CoH target a target with above 50% HP, serendipity could proc, however this is unlikely due to the "smart targeting" system I hear they are implementing in CoH which targets people with lowest Hp in raid in range. However, this could make "top up the raid" healing easier should serendipity proc.

Any thoughts?

#43 Havoc12

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:58 PM

From WWSscoreboard: Sk-gaming fastest kill. 4:27
Top healer Mackelina, paladin 2957hps, 52% overhealing. So 1420hps.


Maintain is the key word. 4' fights are anyone's guess.

#44 Slyness

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 06:53 PM

Disc gets Divine spirit, Enlightenment and Rapture.

Holy gets Improved death, Improved holy concentration and serendipity.


Imp death vs Enlightenment is a difference of 5% intellect in Enlightenment's favor. Not counting Rapture or Divine spirit, the difference in mana regen for disc vs holy is:

15% int (mental strength)
5% int (enlightenment)
vs
Holy concentration
Serendipity

On a side note, I have a question about Serendipity that maybe you guys can help me out with. There wasn't a holy WOTLK discussion thread so I thought I would just ask it here. Is there any mortal strike affect in the game currently that reduces healing by more than 50%? Unless there's new reduced healing factors in the next expansion it doesn't look like this talent does anything at all. Maybe the wording is wrong in the talent tree...

#45 Incoherence

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:01 PM

On a side note, I have a question about Serendipity that maybe you guys can help me out with. There wasn't a holy WOTLK discussion thread so I thought I would just ask it here. Is there any mortal strike affect in the game currently that reduces healing by more than 50%? Unless there's new reduced healing factors in the next expansion it doesn't look like this talent does anything at all. Maybe the wording is wrong in the talent tree...

I think the general consensus is that it's Blizzard's roundabout way of saying "if the heal is more than 50% overheal" without actually using the word "overheal", which makes it just another version of the 2 piece T5 bonus.

#46 Havoc12

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 08:37 AM

Btw, I've thought up a Holy CoH spam build, don't know if it is any good, but I would like your opinion. Maybe I should sack mental agility, but it is very powerful for CoH raid healing.

Yarr! Tools :: Priest 8472

Also, there is this little possibility that should CoH target a target with above 50% HP, serendipity could proc, however this is unlikely due to the "smart targeting" system I hear they are implementing in CoH which targets people with lowest Hp in raid in range. However, this could make "top up the raid" healing easier should serendipity proc.

Any thoughts?


Why would you have 2 points in improved crit instead of 2 points in test of faith? It really makes no sense to me. 2% crit is 0.6% more healing. If one in 10 targets you hit with CoH is below 50% you get 0.7% more crit on top of 1% more effective healing. This is more than 2 times the return. Also unlike universal crit test of faith crit has a lot less overheal potential. Taking divine spec instead of test of faith to raid heal is just insane to me.

Serendipity only procs for Gheal/Flash. The talent says nothing about other spells.

Also mental agi no longer makes sense for CoH build. You can only spam it once every 6 seconds. You have to suplement with PoH, pom, binding heal and FH/GH. Empowered healing 5/5 is mandatory. You are going to be using PoH and PoM quite a lot as well, so healing prayers is also very necessary IMO

This is the holy build I would choose:

Basic Holy build. This has all the key talents in it.

#47 constantius

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 08:49 AM

Btw, I've thought up a Holy CoH spam build, don't know if it is any good, but I would like your opinion. Maybe I should sack mental agility, but it is very powerful for CoH raid healing.

Yarr! Tools :: Priest 8472

Also, there is this little possibility that should CoH target a target with above 50% HP, serendipity could proc, however this is unlikely due to the "smart targeting" system I hear they are implementing in CoH which targets people with lowest Hp in raid in range. However, this could make "top up the raid" healing easier should serendipity proc.

Any thoughts?


There will be no builds based around CoH if the current cooldown-driven CoH goes live. Any sort of cooldown on the spell basically removes it from spammability, which means you're filling the middle of the cooldown with other spells, probably PoM (every 10 seconds) and GHeal. In that situation, you need 5/5 Emp Healing, and should always (imo) take 3/3 Test of Faith.

Maybe there will be some kind of CoH -> Holy Nova x3 -> CoH rotation people will mess around with, but we're not going to be pure AoE healers in WotLK, unless things change dramatically from Alpha -> Beta.
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#48 Guest_Alici_*

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 03:58 PM

I wonder how Penance and the spellpower changes are able to shift the paradigm for healer hybrids from the current healer/DPS split to more of a 0.5 healer/DPS type that hybrids would, at least conceptually, be suited for.

One of the reasons that healers cannot also DPS in normal settings is cast time. Most all heals that would save a tank require time to cast, and in the time a healer takes to stop a DPS cast, start up a heal cast, and land the heal, the tank would be dangerously close to death, if not already dead. An alternative would be instant heals, but they are often not viable because they do not heal immediately (Renew and other HOTs), are underpowered (Holy Shock), are not always available (Nature's Swiftness), or have conditions that may make them situational (Swiftmend and HOTs, but I don't know enough about druids to know if this is true). For this reason, healers concentrate on healing, and time their casts in such a way that heals will land when damage is taken. In my experience as a healer (up to SSC/TK) cast timing and cast-cancelling is what healers do.

The downside to this, though, is that this type of healing (cast-cancelling, or simply overhealing a target just to finish the cast) results in zero output. While the healer is casting and cancelling (or topping off a 99%-100% target), an effective 0 HPS is being done. The healer is obviously working very hard at his job (making sure the tank doesn't die), but at that instant there really are no results to his work. In the meantime that his heals aren't immediately needed, he's not contributing to the bottom line.

The solution to this would be DPS. If you aren't healing, you're doing DPS. However, it goes back to the first problem that I mentioned above, and this would be where Penance comes in. My thoughts on this spell is that it's the opposite of a heal with a cast time. The effects are felt immediately, and then two more times after that, for 3 seconds. It solves the problem of not healing the tank in time, or at the very least, it boosts the tank's health until other heals or shields to maximize his suvival are able to land.

Obviously Penance is not a cure-all; not every healer will be a discipline priest, and the spell's average output and 10 second cooldown limit its overall usefulness. However, it does provide an avenue where 0.5 healer/DPS types don't necessarily feel marginalized, as they can truly contribute to the group they way that they are most effective.

#49 Ellyh

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 08:07 PM

Personally I don't think that a .5 healer such as the one you describe is viable given game mechanics. Bosses either hit hard or the don't. If you need to be healing you need to be healing 90% of the time in case of a tank gib. I think what most people are looking at when referring to a .5 healer is a person who on fight A, where the boss hits like a little girl, nukes thier little heart out and then on fight B, where the boss hits like a runaway train, flicks back to being a full time healer. Personally even this concept strikes me as doubtful as it is well established that if the content is in any way difficult that people would rather swap people in and out and have a 100% player in a slot rather than an 80% hybrid.

Yes there may be some of this in small friendly 10 man raids but if the content gets hard people will reach for the guaranteed thing, be that healing or dps. The problem a disc priest has for dps is that the build that optimises dps will NOT be optimised for healing or vice versa. So while a disc priest may be able to do competitive dps (which I doubt) they couldn't heal worth a damn. Or if they can heal well (by disc standards) their gear choices and talents will leave them sucking ass at just above tank level dps.

#50 Incoherence

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:55 PM

Personally I don't think that a .5 healer such as the one you describe is viable given game mechanics. Bosses either hit hard or the don't. If you need to be healing you need to be healing 90% of the time in case of a tank gib. I think what most people are looking at when referring to a .5 healer is a person who on fight A, where the boss hits like a little girl, nukes thier little heart out and then on fight B, where the boss hits like a runaway train, flicks back to being a full time healer. Personally even this concept strikes me as doubtful as it is well established that if the content is in any way difficult that people would rather swap people in and out and have a 100% player in a slot rather than an 80% hybrid.

Just to argue a devil's advocate position, this argument only works if fight A and fight B are different encounters, as opposed to different phases of the same encounter (RoS, although I always end up on shield/dispel duty for RoS phase 1). With the 33% healing to damage change, and again with this change, I expect we'll see a lot more fights that want the healers to DPS in some capacity (imagine if Leotheras was actually tuned around the healers wearing their full healing gear).

You still can't DPS and heal at the same time (unless the only "healing" you're doing is stacking Grace, which I suppose is a possibility); when a boss can squish a tank in 2-3 seconds you really don't want to be in a situation where you need to cancel a damage spell, assist, THEN start a heal and hope it lands before the tank dies.

#51 Vain

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:57 AM

Mental Strength going from +10% more mana to +15% intellect, while a great buff for spirit-based regeneration, is not as much of a buff to your maximum mana as you might first think. The reason is that total mana is composed of both base mana and mana derived from intellect. For example, my PvP disc priest without mental strength has 528 intellect and 10260 mana. TBC's mental strength brings that to 11286 (a bonus of +1026), but WoTLK's will provide +15% intellect instead (+79 intellect, or +1188 mana).

Penance does not seem that great as a PvP healing spell. The problem is that it is unusable while being trained, as it is channeled. Furthermore, unlike greater heal, where you don't pay the mana cost or even enter the five second rule if it doesn't go off, you pay the entire cost of penance up front whether you manage to get any ticks out of it or not.

It could be useful if you have already used all of your instants (so your alternatives are greater heal or flash heal if you wish to keep healing your target), you are not being attacked, and you are willing to accept being counterspelled (as you are left with cast time spells anyway). Unlike greater heal, you can't realistically juke a cast of penance unless you want to waste a lot of mana. The only upside to this spell seems to be getting a 3-stack of grace, and that is assuming penance can provide an instant 3-stack (one cast of mind flay does not generate a 3-stack of shadow weaving).

1 point in Divine Aegis will be good for dispel fodder, although PvP disc priests currently don't cast many spells that can crit. While penance can crit, it's unclear what happens if more than one tick crits.

Assuming today's max rank greater heal, including gear bonuses, will still heal for approximately what it does now (roughly 4000 for a PvP geared priest) after the spellpower changes, Rapture provides 100 mana back to the party, which is effectively a 14% reduction in mana cost for you, if you have the -15% greater heal cost talent. Once again, though, PvP disc priests currently don't focus on casting a lot of greater heals, due to mana inefficiency and mana burn/dispel being a much better optimization of your class's abilities comparatively, although this might change.

#52 crimsonsentinel

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 04:46 AM

What troubles me about disc raiding is that it's decent, but its strength almost entirely revolved around buffing the tank with grace. I had the impression that Blizzard wanted to get rid of 1 trick ponies in lich king, but they're introducing one here.
Unfortunately, grace is powerful enough that bosses will need to be balanced around it, so not having a disc priest may be highly detrimental. Any fight with high tank damage will rely on the grace buff. Moreover, a lot of fights don't have high tank damage, which means on those fights you have a gimped healer with little utility. I really dont see the mana regen as being terribly great; all it does is allow the raid to move a shadow priest to a dps group (or bring 1 instead of 2, which is probably what will likely happen). However, substituting a dps for a healer is not usually good raid practice unless again you are on a specific fight that is very healing intensive.

Penance is also remarkably bad. Just compare the numbers of penance to the new druid heal nourish. Nearly the same mana, nearly the same heal amount, and nourish can get upwards of 50+% to its healing with hots established and casts twice as fast. With full hots up nourish scales better as well. That's not even mentioning lifebloom stacks or the fact that penance has a 10 second cooldown (which is clearly there because of the damage aspect).

In order to fix disc, penance needs to be fixed to be a good staple heal (take away the damage component, it only drags the spell down, just like holy shock). Penance has the potential to define the spec instead of being some lackluster holy shock. Otherwise, disc will remain a spec that people will hearth and respec for certain bosses and then respec back after said boss is dead.

#53 Tunza

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 06:34 AM

Been thinking about DPS utility for priests and came up with a basic idea. Why not alter Mark of Divinity a touch or add a similar option that does a % of healing to a target for each point of damage you do?

The current proposed spell available to all priests is:

Mark of Divinity: "Marks the target with Divinity, causing 30% of all of your healing to also heal the target." (level 70, instant, 65% of base mana, 30m duration)

Not very valuable to Shadow Priests, although there could be some benefit from VT?


This could be adjusted to:

Mark of Divinity: "Marks the target with Divinity, causing 20% (or some balanced number) of all of your healing and 10% (or some balanced number) of all your Holy damage to also heal the target." (level 70, instant, 65% of base mana, 30m duration)

This might add utility value to priests and encourage a player to be a damage/healer in groups and raids. Note that I added "Holy damage" so as not to make Shadow Priests too amazingly OP or mess with VT/VE. It would be more attractive to then cast the odd Holy Nova, Smite or Penance rather than just an occasional SW:P.


Or there could be two priest "Marks" which are mutually exclusive (like a pally aura or hunter aspect):

Mark of <Clever Priestly Damage Name>: "Marks the target with Divinity, causing 10% (or some balanced number) of all of your Holy damage to also heal the target." (level 70, instant, 65% of base mana, 30m duration)

Implementing a spell like this would require careful balancing to not eliminate Shadow as a valuable spec but I'm sure some tweaking of the spell could create a balance that makes non-shadow damage or 0.5 damage/heals valuable. There could even be a removal of the Holy damage limitation but I'm not sure if they could do this and still balance Shadow Priests effectively.

Another option they could use to buff the Disc or Holy trees (if needed) could be to add a high level talent that would alter Mark of Divinity to allow damage to add to the healing of the target. Or perhaps there could be an inscription that would do this (sounds a little complex for an inscription that could be used by other classes on other spells).

Any thoughts?

#54 Ellyh

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 07:22 AM

You can't put viable DPS and Viable healing in the same role for balance reasons. It's the main reason that hybrids suck just ask any druid at release how much fun is was having subpar healing and subpar tanking and subpar DPS was when they only had 75% of the efficiency of pure classes because they were hybrids. Trying to shoehorn a viable dps build into a healing tree is going to result in this same problem, alternatively they will be seen as overpowered if they can have raid worthy healing and raid worthy dps in the same build, this is worse than the feral druid case because of how badly it unbalances PvP.

It's been said it before but it's worth repeating that the disc tree while reasonably powerful is still awfully schizophrenic and doesn't know if it's a dps tree, buff tree, healing tree or PvP tree. Unlike other trees you cannot make a good spec for any of these roles without picking up a lot of filler along the way. What it needs is reassembling from the ground up to unify the focus and provide better flow for whatever aspect of the tree you are trying to build on. Whether this will actually happen is debatable.

Just to argue a devil's advocate position, this argument only works if fight A and fight B are different encounters, as opposed to different phases of the same encounter (RoS, although I always end up on shield/dispel duty for RoS phase 1). With the 33% healing to damage change, and again with this change, I expect we'll see a lot more fights that want the healers to DPS in some capacity (imagine if Leotheras was actually tuned around the healers wearing their full healing gear).

You still can't DPS and heal at the same time (unless the only "healing" you're doing is stacking Grace, which I suppose is a possibility); when a boss can squish a tank in 2-3 seconds you really don't want to be in a situation where you need to cancel a damage spell, assist, THEN start a heal and hope it lands before the tank dies.


I totally agree with your second paragraph as it completely captures what I was thinking. However I don't see that your point about non healing fight features holds water as a justification for disc dps builds. This is because no matter what you give the disc spec the encounter has to be designed to be doable by whatever healing/tanking spec has the lowest damage output. For non demon/undead fights the current winner (or is that looser) in this regard is the holy pally as his weapon hits for nothing and he has no nukes to take advantage of all the spellpower his gear gives him. Now hopefully the delay in releasing the pally changes is caused by them trying to solve this problem but it currently provides a hard limit on how much dps you can expect from any given healer.

If they don't want you healing but doing something else there are plenty of existing mechanics that could be adapted for a ROS P1 type encounter you don't have to make a healer fall back on a gimp dps output to feel useful, chess type npc control, picking up a encounter specific weapon like in the Kael fight etc.

#55 Havoc12

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:53 PM

I can see Silent Resolve being situationally important in 25-man scenarios especially if you're holy spec and you have Mark of Divinity placed on the MT. If encounters have raid wide damage occuring early on in the fight and you have a decent amount of people grouped within 15 yrds of each other, that's a ton of healing and threat right there. There's just no point in taking anything else. I consider Imp PW:S a pvp talent. 15% increase for 3 talent points is really weak and just insignificant in my opinion in a raiding scenario. I also don't use PW:S except for maybe some pulls in 5 mans but then I generally only pvp with my priest so perhaps other priests could share their opinion on this?


Healing is 50% per point heal, spread over all enemies in range. DPS generally produce more threat than any healer can on bosses, even factoring talents and threat wipe abilities. Silent resolve is only really useful in cases where you have adds that need to be kited or CCd.

PW:S is not just a PvP talent. It is one of our most powerful panic buttons and essential in all panic combos. Simply consider how much swiftment heals for. Its also the only healer spell capable of adding temporary HP. Though not essential I consider it a very worthwile talent in raids.

Disc priests could shine as spot healers in raids with an occasional penance on the tank. I assume you don't need as much healing on the raid as you would for MT healing, sothe difference in healing power between a holy priest and disc priest in that scenario would be nil. That coupled with Disc priest's superior mana regen compared to Holy priests with Enlightenment/Mental Strength could make them more suited for that role when it comes up.

As for a viable healer in .5 healer in 10 mans, a smite priest fills that role nicely. On demand dps or healing without having to switch gear anymore(with the introduction of spellpower) will make them able to do either role depending on the fight or switch to a healing role in the case a healer goes down during an encounter. Who knows what encounters will be like within an instance in WOTLK but at the moment, a raid instance has fights that seem to be easier to accomplish with varying numbers of healers. Instead of switching people in and out, which some guilds such as my own aren't able to coordinate due to circumstances, having a regular smite priest could be a viable option.
It's looking like all casters will generally value spirit and with the homogenization of gear coupled with Enlightenment/Mental Agility changes, it doesn't look like Smite priests will be struggling for mana as much as they used to.


Serendipity and improved holy concentration, coupled with increased spirit stacking means that holy priests will enjoy unparalleled mana regen, due to more spirit stacking, constant mana return and much decreased FSR time.

Contrary to what people think, I believe that disc priests in raids will take a small amount of crit gear, fill the rest with haste/spellpower and they will be healing tanks. The reason is that divine aegis results in a non trivial decrease in incoming tank damage, and it goes on top of the damage reduction from inspiration and grace. In my oppinion it will represent something between 100 and 300 less DPS on the tank.

Considering how many damage reduction talents there are in the wotlk alpha, it seems to me that blizzard is trying to get away from fights which focus on healing tremendous damage. Instead healers seem to be getting talents that deal with massive damage in a different way, by mitigating it in some way. I think these talents will be essential and a lot of fights will be based around the healers saving the tank with them.

I think that no healer will be essential in 10 man senarios. But in 25 mans most raids will bring a disc priest along for spirit buff, grace, mass dispelling and PI/PS. Remember that a disc priest can keep the grace buff up on multiple tanks using penance/FH.

#56 Slyness

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:06 PM

You can't put viable DPS and Viable healing in the same role for balance reasons. It's the main reason that hybrids suck just ask any druid at release how much fun is was having subpar healing and subpar tanking and subpar DPS was when they only had 75% of the efficiency of pure classes because they were hybrids. Trying to shoehorn a viable dps build into a healing tree is going to result in this same problem, alternatively they will be seen as overpowered if they can have raid worthy healing and raid worthy dps in the same build, this is worse than the feral druid case because of how badly it unbalances PvP.


It's hard to make that comparison to druids as itemization has gotten better and seems to be getting better in the next expansion. Hopefully being able to dps and heal doesn't have an impact on tank healing too much since crushing blows are gone, coupled with perhaps Grace, resulting in damage will be less spikey in comparison to now, but who knows.
I think we need to look at disc builds from a pure healing standpoint. With spellpower, one can argue that all healers have essentially become hybrids and can dps/heal to some extent. The dps talents here and there in disc doesn't exempt Disc builds from being evaluated from a pure healing standpoint.

All in all, I still think Disc is a viable raid option. The buffs it provides are potentially very nice for 25 mans. I think someone mentioned in this thread that it has about 20% less healing capacity than Holy. It's just kind of interesting that this seems to be the first healing class/spec analogous to what shadowpriests, ret paladins and so on, are for dps. It's not like a resto shammy because they have roles in which they shine. It's just a clear cut less healing for more buffs.

Healing is 50% per point heal, spread over all enemies in range. DPS generally produce more threat than any healer can on bosses, even factoring talents and threat wipe abilities. Silent resolve is only really useful in cases where you have adds that need to be kited or CCd.

PW:S is not just a PvP talent. It is one of our most powerful panic buttons and essential in all panic combos. Simply consider how much swiftment heals for. Its also the only healer spell capable of adding temporary HP. Though not essential I consider it a very worthwile talent in raids.


For the current max rank of PW:S, imp PW:S adds around 190 absorbtion. With raid bosses in mind, it seems that 3 talent points for something that seems pretty insignificant doesn't make it a worthwhile talent. Just my opinion though.

Serendipity and improved holy concentration, coupled with increased spirit stacking means that holy priests will enjoy unparalleled mana regen, due to more spirit stacking, constant mana return and much decreased FSR time. Also 20% more intellect, means that in addition to more mana they get 20% more crit from int. The increased intellect scaling and the increased crit value for disc priest with divine aegis means that disc priests will be stacking more int and less spi that holy priests.

Yeah, I misunderstood Serendipity so I agree that Holy will most likely be more mana efficient overall. Someone mentioned in this thread that Imp Holy concentration is still a typo/mistake and that all three points has a 20% haste benefit or something along those lines.

#57 Kopalec

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 07:25 AM

Mental Strength going from +10% more mana to +15% intellect, while a great buff for spirit-based regeneration, is not as much of a buff to your maximum mana as you might first think. The reason is that total mana is composed of both base mana and mana derived from intellect. For example, my PvP disc priest without mental strength has 528 intellect and 10260 mana. TBC's mental strength brings that to 11286 (a bonus of +1026), but WoTLK's will provide +15% intellect instead (+79 intellect, or +1188 mana).


While true, what your leaving out, or forgetting, is that now Mental Strength will have synergy boosts. Mark of the Wild (buffed in x-pac), Blessing of Kings, Flask of Distilled Wisdom(or new Flask in x-pac), and Arcane Intellect will all be affected by this new form. Not to mention higher amounts of Intellect from gear at 80. So, I would say that it is a substantial buff.

#58 Palendior

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 07:29 AM

There will be no builds based around CoH if the current cooldown-driven CoH goes live.
...
Maybe there will be some kind of CoH -> Holy Nova x3 -> CoH rotation people will mess around with, but we're not going to be pure AoE healers in WotLK, unless things change dramatically from Alpha -> Beta.


Indeed. With the cooldown on CoH, it is unlikely that priests will be assigned to raid healing much at all. This job will go to Druids and Shamans. Tree druids get Flourish, which affects an area similar to CoH, but with no cooldown, and seems to heal more than CoH per cast. No cooldown and a mass HoT means that unless the damage is very spikey, two tree druids can easily keep the raid up even in a fight with lots of raid wide splash damage. (Tree druids also get other stuff that will further make them more desirable for raid healing, such as the Replenish talent ). And Shamans will be as strong as ever, with Chain Heal buffed, in handling raid healing in general, and handling the spikes in particular.

Without too much QQ'ing, I have to say that whilst the buffs to priest tank healing are nice, it saddens me that priests are likely to be pushed into the "paladin role" (mainly tank healing and buffs and utility) rather than the raid healing role that I at least have enjoyed.

Although, in all fairness this impression could change if some additional AOE healing abilities shows up for priests in the beta.

#59 Havoc12

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 03:13 PM

For the current max rank of PW:S, imp PW:S adds around 190 absorbtion. With raid bosses in mind, it seems that 3 talent points for something that seems pretty insignificant doesn't make it a worthwhile talent. Just my opinion though.

At my +healing PWS untalented absorbs about 2000damage. Talented it absorbs 2300. A flash heal heals for 2600. The talent makes the spell worth using, especially considering that last stand adds 2k temp HP.

#60 Celillenna

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 04:36 PM

I wouldn't say that Pain Suppression is too situational.

The situation you want to use it in is: Someone is taking damage and we won't wipe because the 5% deaggro made the mob pwn dps.

If the mob is on a caster, you can use PS as a last-ditch attempt to get it off. If the tank has a more than 5% lead over the next guy you can use it on him if the boss uses some sort of damage increase/healing decrease ability. I'd say it's helpful for aoe packs, but Prot Paladins exist. You can also use it on someone who's taken a RST ability if they have lower than average HP (my guild has this problem a lot, since we fill in the 25th slot with someone who isn't quite geared enough frequently).

Power Infusion is also useful if there are mobs that have vulnerability phases. I can't think of too many offhand (Curator, Ilhoof, RoS) but there are a few. You can also cast it on the holy priest during boss spike phases like RoS's periodic enrage.

Finally I'll point out that when people first started doing HKM over a year ago, he sort of was like Brutallus in his ability to suddenly drop tanks (maybe we just sucked). It obviously stopped fairly rapidly as gear improved but those first kills were nerve-wracking to heal.




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