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WotLK talent trees/abilities discussion


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#1 Cathela

Cathela

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 04:12 AM

Note: As of Nov. 3rd, I've largely stopped updating this post. These changes have mostly all gone live, and the changes that have been made in the beta since that date are relatively minor and for the most part can be understood easily through the patch notes. I'm leaving everything here as a reference, but no longer updating unless major changes occur between now and the WotLK release.

Thanks again to everyone who's contributed information, corrected my errors, or even just sent me a kind word in a PM.


An attempt to compile all known reasonably reliable information about paladin changes/additions in the Wrath of the Lich King and patch 3.0.2. Much of this information may be outdated or incorrect; if you find errors, please let me know.

Most of these changes have already gone live in the 3.0.2 patch.

Contents
  • Synopsis/highlights/general themes
  • Current confirmed bugs
  • Game mechanics changes
  • New spells
  • Changes to old spells/mechanics
  • New/changed talents
  • Other Paladin-related mechanics/gameplay information
  • Things We've Noticed
  • Acknowledgements

Synopsis/highlights/general themes
  • A general shift in focus to a heavier emphasis on physical stats such as strength and attack power. Most damage abilities now scale with both attack power and spellpower.
  • Reduction in the number of blessings, and short-duration blessings (renamed "hands") use a different "slot" from long-duration blessings.
  • A stronger emphasis on hybrid play in all three talent trees.
  • Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Blood made (effectively) available to both factions.
  • A reworking of the Seal/Judgement system making it more flexible and easier to "set up" and maintain during combat. Substantially more powerful judgement debuffs and anciliary benefits to all specs from judging.
  • A new baseline "bloodrage" mana-regeneration ability.
  • A new baseline reactive healing "shield", and talents in Holy for faster heals and a dual-target healing spell.
  • A new baseline "shield slam" type attack, talents in Protection for stronger proactive threat generation, and an overall shift to threat generation based on strength and block value rather than spell power.
  • Talents in Retribution to give spellpower based on attack power, and to regenerate mana and health for allies through damage dealing.

Current confirmed bugs

None at the moment.

Game mechanics changes
  • All spells (for all classes) now cost a percentage of base mana; in general this percentage remains constant for all ranks (hence removing the ability to downrank for efficiency), although in some cases the level 60-80 ranks cost slightly less than previous ranks.
  • The "plus healing" and "plus spelldamage" stats have been unified into a single stat called "spellpower" which affects all damage and healing spells. "Spell damage" bonuses all convert direct to an equal amount of spellpower; "healing" bonuses convert to a smaller amount of spellpower, but healing spells have higher coefficients to make the overall result approximately the same as before.
  • Melee/ranged crit rating and spell crit rating have been combined into a single crit rating stat that affects all attacks and spells (including heals).
  • Melee/ranged hit rating and spell hit rating have been combined into a single hit rating stat.
  • Strength now gives shield block value at a rate of one point of block value per two points of strength before any talents are considered.
  • High-level NPCs attacking players do not cause crushing blows unless the difference in levels is at least 4. This effectively removes crushing blows as a raid mechanic.
  • Spells only lose casting time ("pushback") for the first two hits; after that the spell becomes immune to this effect until the cast is completed or cancelled. Talents and abilities that previously reduced the chance to lose casting time now instead reduce the amount of time lost per hit. These effects stack additively, so e.g., 5/5 Spiritual Focus (70%) and Concentration Aura (35%) together give complete pushback immunity as before.
  • Many buffs and debuffs from different classes no longer stack. This is intended to reduce the necessity of bringing specific classes and specs to a raid to secure critical buffs. Where known, these non-stacking effects are noted in this post.

New spells

Holy

  • Divine Plea

    Requires level 71
    Instant, 1 min cooldown

    You gain 25% of your total mana over 10 sec, but the amount healed by your spells is reduced by 20%.

  • Sacred Shield

    Requires level 80
    12% of base mana, 40 yard range, Instant cast

    Each time the target takes damage they gain a Sacred Shield, absorbing 500 damage and increasing the paladin's chance to critically hit with Flash of Light by 50% for up to 6 sec. They cannot gain this effect more than once every 6 sec. Lasts 30 sec.
    The shield effect will activate when the target takes damage, and will then absorb damage until it is consumed. This spell appears to have a 75% spellpower coefficient (per activation of the shield) so for example if you have 2000 spellpower, the shield will absorb 2000 damage. The bonus crit for Flash of Light only applies while the shield effect is active (i.e., until the shield is consumed) so for hard-hitting damage, the crit bonus will only be active between two attacks.

  • Beacon of Light

    Talented; requires 50 points in Holy talents
    35% of base mana, 40 yard range, Instant cast

    The target becomes a Beacon of Light to all targets within a 40 yard radius. Any heals you cast on those targets will also heal the Beacon for 100% of the amount healed.
    This applies to the effective healing done, meaning that overheal amounts won't heal the beacon, but crit heal amounts will. Beacon heals can crit separately at your normal holy crit rate. So, for example, if your normal Holy Light heals for 4k, and you crit for 6k without overheal, the beacon heal can then crit for up to 9k. Lasts for one minute.



Protection

  • Shield of Righteousness

    Requires level 75
    6% of base mana, 5 yard range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown
    Requires Shields

    Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 100% of your block value plus 300. This spell causes a high amount of threat.
    Blue comments have indicated that there should be a second rank to this spell with a higher base damage. This cannot be cast while silenced. It can miss, but it cannot be parried or dodged, which probably means it's treated as a spell.

    There is currently no sound effect for this spell, and the visual effect is pretty disappointing as well.

  • Hammer of the Righteous

    Talented; requires 50 points in Protection talents
    6% of base mana, 5 yard range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown
    Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon

    Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing 3 times your main hand damage per second as Holy damage.
    The damage done is the weapon dps from your character sheet (white dps) times four, not three. (This is an announced and intended change, but not yet reflected in the tooltip.) Damage done is independent of weapon speed, presumably so that a paladin can use a "warrior-style" weapon (i.e., fast one-hander) to tank. However, this ability triggers seals based on the weapon speed, so for example a 2.0-speed weapon with Seal of Righteousness will only do 80% of the damage of a 2.5-speed weapon. Like Avenger's Shield, it will not jump to crowd-controlled (polymorph, sap, etc) targets. The range limit for the bounce targets appears to be about the same as for Avenger's Shield, so the second and third targets can be out of melee range. This ability can (in the current build) be used while silenced.



Retribution

  • Seal of Corruption

    Requires level 66
    Races: Blood Elf
    14% of base mana, Instant cast

    Fills the Paladin with holy power, granting each melee attack additional Holy damage over 15 sec. This effect can stack up to 5 times. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 sec.

    Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing Holy damage per application of Blood Corruption.
    Functions identically to the Alliance's Seal of Vengeance. See below for scaling information. (Note that this spell and Seal of Vengeance now cause the damage-over-time effect on every melee hit.)

  • Seal of the Martyr

    Requires level 66
    Races: Human, Dwarf, Draenei
    14% of base mana, Instant cast

    All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage equal to 28% of normal weapon damage, but the Paladin loses health equal to 10% of the total damage inflicted.

    Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing Holy damage at the cost of health equal to 33% of the damage caused.
    The converse of Seal of Corruption: functions identically to the Horde's Seal of Blood. (The reduced damage corresponds to a change to Seal of Blood as well. See below for scaling information.

  • Divine Storm

    Talented; requires 50 points in Retribution talents
    12% of base mana, 5 yard range, Instant cast, 10 sec cooldown, Requires Melee Weapon

    An instant weapon attack that causes Holy damage to up to 4 enemies within 8 yards. The Divine Storm heals up to 3 party or raid members totalling 20% of the damage caused.
    Damage appears to be based exclusively on weapon damage; no spellpower scaling. The healing effect can heal the paladin, and when soloing the full 20% healing effect will go to the paladin. It uses normalized attack power and triggers all seals, including damaging seals. Healing is based on total damage done, not effective damage, so "overkill" damage counts fully. As of the current build, it can be used while silenced.


Changes to old spells/mechanics

Seals and Judgements

The entire seal/judgement system has been substantially reworked.
  • Judgement has been replaced by 3 new spells: Judgement of Light, Judgement of Wisdom, and Judgement of Justice. All Judgement spells are considered ranged attacks. All cause damage based on attack power and spell power.
    • Judgement share a linked cooldown, like the old Judgement spell.
    • Judgement spells now trigger the global cooldown.
    • Judgement spells do not consume the current seal.
    • The standard holy damage dealt by Judgement spells is 20% of attack power plus 32% of spell power; some seals may increase this amount.
    • Judgements are treated as ranged attacks for purpose of hitting and critting; that is, they cannot be parried or dodged, and they crit at the physical (melee) crit rate for 200% of normal damage.
    • A seal must be active in order to cast a Judgement, but the seal is not consumed.
    • Melee attacks no longer refresh judgements, nor does Crusader Strike.
    • There are no abilities from other classes that provide non-stacking effects with judgements.
    • Multiple paladins may have the same kind of judgement on the same target; if Light or Wisdom is the judgement in question, only the stronger one will be triggered.
    • Judgement of Light restores is 18% of the casting paladin's current attack power plus 18% of the paladin's current spell power. The effect cannot trigger more than once every 4 seconds.
      • It appears that outside of the 4-second cooldown, this judgement will trigger on every attack.
      • The 4-second cooldown apparently applies on a per-attacker-per-target basis, so it's possible to receive more than one JoW proc every 4 seconds by attacking multiple targets.
      • This spell is learned at level 4 and has the same icon as the old Judgement spell (gold color scheme).
    • Judgement of Wisdom restores 2% of the attacker's total mana. The effect cannot trigger more than once every 4 seconds.
      • Proc chance and multiple-target behavior are the same as for Judgement of Light, above.
      • This spell is learned at level 12 and has a similar icon, but with a blue color scheme.
      • Currently the 4-second cooldown on this judgement applies to all attackers; that is the judgement will only trigger once every 4 seconds no matter how many people are attacking the target.
    • Judgement of Justice will no longer prevent Fear effects, but will only prevent NPCs from fleeing (e.g. at low health).
      • This judgement still has the movement-limiting effect.
      • This spell is learned at level 28 and has a similar icon, but with a blue color scheme.
  • All Seals have been reduced to 1 rank and now cost 14% of base mana. The duration has been increased to 2 minutes and are no longer consumed when a Judgement spell is cast. The effects can be triggered from all weapon based special abilities.
    • "Seal of the Crusader has been removed. The effects of Judgement of the Crusader have been folded into all relevant abilities."
    • Seal of Blood and Seal of the Martyr now only deal 28% of weapon damage (down from 35%) and now increase Judgement damage by 25% of weapon damage. (That is, unleashing the seal deals the standard judgement damage described above, plus 25% of weapon damage.)
    • Seal of Command now only deals 56% of weapon damage (down from 70%) and now increases Judgement damage by 30% of weapon damage. Contrary to the tooltip, base damage is not doubled against stunned targets; rather the crit chance is 100% against stunned targets.
    • Seal of Righteousness deals damage based on weapon speed plus an amount based on attack power and spell power, and increases Judgement damage by 25%.
      • Damage per second done by this seal is 2.8% of attack power plus 5.5% of spell power across all weapon speeds and types.
      Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption damage over time duration has been returned to 15 seconds and is now applied on every swing, causing damage based on attack power and spell power. These seals increase Judgement damage by 10% per instance of the damage-over-time effect.
      • The damage done every 3 seconds is equal to 3.2% of Attack Power plus 1.6% of Spell Power, multiplied by the number of times the debuff has stacked. (Hence at the maximum stack of 5, damage per "tick" will be 16% of Attack Power plus 8% of Spell Power.)
      • Melee hits with this seal when the stack is full will deal additional damage of 1.2% of Spell Power, times Weapon Speed (hence, damage per second equal to 1.2% of Spell Power) as well as refreshing the stack's duration.
    • Seal of Light restores health equal to 28% of attack power plus 28% of spell power. Judgement damage is standard.
    • Seal of Wisdom restores 4% of total mana. Judgement damage is standard
    • Seal of Justice now has only one rank. Judgement damage is standard.

Auras
  • All Auras now affect all party and raid members within the area of effect.
  • Retribution Aura damage increased and now gains damage based on Holy spell power. The new base damage is approximately two and a half times the old damage, and the spellpower coefficient is 6.66% per hit.
  • Concentration Aura now reduces the amount of casting time lost per hit by 35% (talentable to 50%) as part of the global chance in spell-pushback mechanics.

Blessings
  • Four blessings have been turned into "Hand" spells which no longer conflict with or remove other blessings. All Hand spells cost 6% of base mana.
    • Blessing of Freedom renamed Hand of Freedom
    • Blessing of Protection renamed Hand of Protection.
    • Blessing of Sacrifice renamed Hand of Sacrifice, with one rank which transfers 20% of the damage taken by the target to the caster for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
    • Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, which reduces total threat of the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds. 2 minute cooldown. (The 10% damage reduction while this Hand is active has been removed.)
  • "Blessing of Light and Greater Blessing of Light removed. Their effects have been folded into all relevant abilities." This seems to mean an increase in the base healing done by Holy Light and Flash of Light. Rank 11 Holy Light, for example, has had its healing increased by 622.
  • Blessing of Might and Blessing of Wisdom cost 6% of base mana for ranks learned through level 69, and 5% of base mana for ranks learned at level 70. Greater Blessing of Might and Greater Blessing of Wisdom cost twice as much as the corresponding ranks of the standard blessings.
  • Blessing of Might and Greater Blessing of Might no longer stack with Battle Shout (Warrior); if both buffs are present, only the stronger one will take effect. These two abilities have the same strength at level 80 when fully talented.
  • Blessing of Wisdom and Greater Blessing of Wisdom apparently can stack with Mana Spring Totem (Shaman).
  • Blessing of Kings costs 6% of base mana, and Greater Blessing of Kings costs 12% of base mana.

Heals
  • Flash of Light costs 8% of base mana for ranks through level 65, and 7% of base mana for later ranks. It has a 100% spellpower coefficient.
  • Holy Light costs 34% of base mana for ranks through level 65, and 29% of base mana for later ranks. It has a 166% spellpower coefficient.
  • Lay on Hands no longer drains all mana, cooldown reduced to 20 minutes[/COLOR] (See also changes to Improved Lay on Hands talent).

Miscellaneous Abilities and Spells
  • Avenging Wrath costs 8% of base mana, no longer causes or is prevented by Forbearance, and now increases damage and healing by 20%. (See also the Sanctified Wrath talent in Retribution.)
  • The Forbearance debuff now lasts 3 minutes, but no longer causes or affects Avenging Wrath.[/color]
  • Divine Intervention cooldown reduced to 20 minutes.
  • Divine Protection costs 3% of base mana, now reduces all damage taken by 50%, and reduces attack speed by 50%. Also no longer shares a cooldown with Divine Shield, and is affected by the Sacred Duty talent. (Effectively this is an analog to Shield Wall).
  • Divine Shield now costs 3% of base mana.
  • Hammer of Justice now costs 3% of base mana and interrupts spellcasting for 3 seconds in addition to the stun effect. The interrupt effect will work on targets that are immune to the stun.
  • Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, is now instant cast, mana cost reduced, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% health (from 20% health). Hammer of Wrath also no longer resets the swing timer; if Hammer of Wrath is being cast when a swing would happen, the swing is delayed until the cast is finished. Damage now scales with 15% of AP and 15% of SP. Costs 14% of base mana for ranks learned through level 65, and 12% of base mana for later ranks.
  • Exorcism mana cost reduced and now scales with attack power and spell power. Damage now scales with 15% of AP and 15% of SP. Costs 10% of base mana for ranks learned through level 65, and 8% of base mana for later ranks.
  • Holy Wrath is now instant cast, causes a 3 second stun, cooldown reduced to 30 seconds, radius reduced to 10 yards.Damage now scales with 7% of AP and 7% of SP. Costs 24% of base mana for ranks learned through level 65, and 20% of base mana for later ranks.
  • Consecration now scales with attack power and spell power.Damage per "tick" scales with 4% of AP and 4% of SP. Costs 26% of base mana for ranks learned through level 65, and 22% of base mana for later ranks.
  • Righteous Fury now increases threat caused by Holy damage by 90%, instead of all holy spells. Costs 24% of base mana. In addition, while Righteous Fury is active all threat generated by the paladin is increased by a further 43%; thus, melee damage done while RF is active generates 43% more threat, and Holy damage actually generates 171% additional threat. This is referred to as the "baked-in salv" effect and counteracts the removal of Blessing of Salvation from the game. (Other tanks gain similar threat bonuses.)
  • Righteous Defense no longer costs mana, does not interact with the global cooldown, and has a 10-second cooldown.
  • Turn Undead (ranks 1 and 2) removed. Turn Evil now granted at level 24, has no cooldown, and costs 9% of base mana. This spell works on players who have transformed into undead or demon forms (Death Knights and Warlocks, respectively).
  • Summon Warhorse and Summon Charger now have no mana cost and do not invoke the global cooldown.
  • Redemption costs 64% of base mana.
  • Purify and Cleanse cost 6% of base mana.

New/changed talents

Blizzard now has an official Beta talent calculator up. In addition, MMO-Champion and WoWhead have their own versions.

Holy
  • Tier 1
    • Spiritual Focus moved from tier 2. No longer reduces chance of spell pushback; instead, reduces the amount of time lost by the same percentage, e.g. only 30% of normal cast time loss occurs with 5 points in this talent.
    • Seals of the Pure, formerly Improved Seal of Righteousness, moved from tier 2, now affects Seals of Righteousness, Vengeance and Corruption.
  • Tier 2
    • Healing Light moved from tier 3, now also affects Holy Shock (both damage and healing effects).
    • Divine Intellect moved from tier 1, increases total Intellect by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    • Unyielding Faith moved from tier 3, now reduces duration of all Fear and Disorient effects by 15/30%.
  • Tier 3
    • Aura Mastery unchanged.
    • Illumination moved from tier 4.
    • Improved Lay on Hands now reduces the cooldown of Lay on Hands by 2/4 minutes and increases the target's armor value from items by 25/50% for 15 seconds.
  • Tier 4
    • Improved Concentration Aura moved from the Protection tree, otherwise unchanged. (Except for the change in Concentration Aura itself; the talent improves the aura's current effect.)
    • Improved Blessing of Wisdom unchanged.
  • Tier 5
    • Pure of Heart reduced to 2 ranks, now reduces duration of Curse and Disease effects by 25/50%.
    • Divine Favor unchanged.
    • Sanctified Light now also increases the critical chance of Holy Shock.
    • NEW: Blessed Hands, 2 points. Reduces the mana cost and increases the resistance to dispel effects of all Hand spells by 15/30%.
  • Tier 6
    • Purifying Power unchanged.
    • Holy Power unchanged.
  • Tier 7
    • Light's Grace unchanged.
    • Holy Shock range changed to 20/40 yards when used on enemies/friends respectively, cooldown reduced to 6 seconds, damage increased, healing greatly increased.
      • Costs 21% of base mana for ranks learned through level 65, 18% of base mana for later ranks.
      • Has a 43% spellpower coefficient when used offensively, and an 81% coefficient when used as a heal.
    • Blessed Life unchanged.
  • Tier 8
    • NEW: Infusion of Light, 2 points, requires Holy Shock. Your Holy Shock critical hits reduce the cast time of your next Holy Light spell by 0.5/1.0 seconds.
    • Holy Guidance now increases spellpower by 4/8/12/16/20% of intellect.
  • Tier 9
    • NEW: Sacred Cleansing, 3 points. Your Cleanse spell has a 10/20/30% chance to increase the target's resistance to Disease, Magic, and Poison by 30% for 10 seconds.
    • Divine Illumination unchanged.
    • NEW: Enlightened Judgements, 2 points. Increases the range of your Judgement spells by 10/20 yards and increases your chance to hit by 2/4%.
  • Tier 10
    • NEW: Judgements of the Pure, 5 points. Your Judgement spells increase your melee and casting haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 60 seconds.
  • Tier 11
    • NEW: Beacon of Light, 1 point. (See above.)

Protection
  • Tier 1
    • Blessing of Kings moved from Tier 3, now increases all stats by 2%. (See Improved Blessing of Kings talent.)
    • NEW: Improved Blesing of Kings, 4 points, requires Blessing of Kings. Increases the effectiveness of Blessing of Kings by an additional 2/4/6/8%.
    • Divine Strength moved from Protection tree, now increases Strength by 3/6/9/12/15%.
  • Tier 2
    • Stoicism moved from tier 4, changed to 3 points, now reduces duration of Stun effects by 10/20/30% and reduces chance your spells will be resisted by 10/20/30%.
    • Guardian's Favor unchanged (aside from overall change to "Hand" spells.)
    • Anticipation no longer affects defense skill; now increases chance to dodge by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    • Precision removed.
  • Tier 3
    • Improved Righteous Fury threat bonus folded into base spell, talent still reduces all damage taken by 2/4/6%.
    • Shield Specialization removed; effects folded into Redoubt (now on Tier 8).
    • Toughness moved from tier 2, now reduces the duration of movement slowing effects by 6/12/18/24/30%.
  • Tier 4
    • NEW: Divine Guardian, 2 points. While Divine Shield is active 15/30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin.
    • Improved Hammer of Justice now reduces cooldown by 10/20/30 secs.
    • Improved Devotion Aura moved from tier 1, reduced to 3 ranks, now increases armor of Devotion Aura by 17/34/50% and increases all healing done to units affected by Devotion Aura by 2/4/6%. The healing-increase effect does not stack with Tree of Life Aura (Druid, Restoration talent).
  • Tier 5
    • Spell Warding removed (effect folded into Guarded by the Light).
    • Blessing of Sanctuary changed: Now reduces damage taken from all sources by 3%, and each melee attack blocked, parried, or dodged by the target will restore 10 rage, 20 runic power, or 2% of maximum mana to the target. Mana cost, duration, and casting range are the same as all other blessings. This effect does not stack with Grace (Priest, Discipline talent)
    • Reckoning language changed to read "Gives you a (X)% chance after blocking or being hit by any damaging attack..." Unknown whether this means Reckoning can now proc on fully-blocked attacks.
  • Tier 6
    • Sacred Duty now also reduces the cooldown on Divine Protection.
    • One-handed Weapon Specialization now increases all damage dealt while wielding a one-handed weapon by 2/4/6/8/10%.
  • Tier 7
    • Improved Holy Shield removed. (Effects folded into Holy Shield.)
    • Holy Shield cooldown reduced to 8 seconds (duration remains 10 seconds), base charges increased to 8, damage increased by 20%. Now scales with attack power (5.6%) and spell power (9%).
    • Ardent Defender unchanged.
  • Tier 8
    • Redoubt moved from tier 1, reduced to 3 points, now increases block value by 10/20/30%, and has a 10% chance on taking a damaging melee or ranged attack to increase block chance by 10/20/30%.
    • Combat Expertise changed to three points, now increases expertise by 2/4/6, critical hit chance by 2/4/6%, and total stamina by 2/4/6%.
  • Tier 9
    • NEW: Touched by the Light, 3 points. Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 10/20/30% of your Stamina and increases the amount healed by your critical heals by 10/20/30%.
    • Avenger's Shield made instant cast, daze duration increased to 10 seconds. Damage now scales with 7% of attack power and 7% of spell power. According to testing by Chicken, damage caused by this spell now generates 120% of normal threat.
    • NEW: Guarded by the Light, 2 points. Reduces spell damage taken by 3/6% and reduces the mana cost of your Consecration, Holy Shield, and Avenger's Shield, and Shield of Righteousness spells by 15/30%.
  • Tier 10
    • NEW: Shield of the Templar, 3 points, requires Avenger's Shield. Increases the damage of your Holy Shield, Avenger's Shield, and Shield of Righteousness spells by 10/20/30%.
    • NEW: Judgements of the Just, 2 points. Your Judgement spells also reduce the melee attack speed of the target by 10/20%. This effect does not stack with Thunder Clap (Warrior), Icy Touch (Death Knight), or Infected Wounds (Druid, Feral talent).
  • Tier 11
    • NEW: Hammer of the Righteous, 1 point. (See above.)

Retribution
  • Tier 1
    • Deflection moved from Tier 2, otherwise unchanged.
    • Benediction now reduces the mana cost of all instant-cast spells by 2/4/6/8/10%. This does not affect spells that normally have a cast time but are made instant by talents (i.e., Infusion of Light, The Art of War)
  • Tier 2
    • Improved Judgements pluralized, but otherwise unchanged.
    • Heart of the Crusader, formerly Improved Seal of the Crusader, now adds its critical strike bonus to all judgement effects. This effect does not stack with Totem of Wrath (Shaman, Elemental Combat talent).
    • Improved Blessing of Might moved from Tier 1, reduced to two points, now increases the effect of Blessing of Might by 12/25%.
  • Tier 3
    • Vindication is now two points, and now gives a chance to reduce all of the target's attributes by 10/20%. No apparent stacking restrictions.
    • Conviction now increases critical chance with all spells and melee attacks.
    • Seal of Command reduced to one rank; duration, mana cost, judgement damage, and stun behavoir changed (see above).
    • Pursuit of Justice reduced to two ranks, now reduces duration of disarm effects by 25/50% and increases movement speed and mounted movement speed by 8/15%.
  • Tier 4
    • Eye for an Eye now reflects 10/20% damage from all critical hits Damage dealt may still not exceed 50% of the paladin's health.
    • Sanctified Seals moved from Tier 7, otherwise.
    • Crusade now increases all damage dealt by 1/2/3% as well as increasing all damage done against Humanoids, Demons, Undead, and Elementals by an additional 1/2/3%. In addition to the described effect, this talent also increases critical hit damage against the specified target types by a further 1/2/3%.
  • Tier 5
    • Two-handed Weapon Specialization unchanged.
    • Sanctity Aura and Improved Sanctity Aura removed.
    • NEW: Sanctified Retribution, 1 point. Damage caused by targets affected by Retribution Aura is increased by 2%. This effect does not stack with Ferocious Inspiration (Hunter, Beast Mastery talent)
    • Divine Purpose moved from Tier 7, reduced to 2 points, now reduces chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 2/4% and gives Hand of Freedom a 50/100% chance to remove stuns. This effect may be cast by the paladin on himself while stunned. It only removes stuns at the time of casting; it does not prevent future stuns.
  • Tier 6
    • Vengeance reduced to 3 points, now provides an additional 1/2/3% damage for 30 seconds after a critical strike, stacking a maximum of three times (for a total 9% damage increase.)
    • Improved Retribution Aura moved from Tier 4, otherwise unchanged.
  • Tier 7
    • NEW: The Art of War, 2 points. Increases the critical strike damage of Judgement, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm by 10/20%, and critical hits with these abilities reduce the casting time of your next Flash of Light spell by 0.75 seconds / makes your next Flash of Light an instant cast spell.
    • Repentance mana cost changed to 9% of base, duration increased to 1 minute, now usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids and Undead. (The 10-second PvP crowd-control limit applies when this spell is used against a player.)
    • Judgements of the Wise, formerly Sanctified Judgement, now causes Judgement spells have a 33/66/100% chance to grant mana regeneration to up to 10 party or raid members, replenishing 0.25% of their total mana per second, and to immediately grant 20% of maximum mana to the paladin. This effect works by providing a "Replenishment" buff to affected targets. The Replenishment buff is also provided by Survival Hunters (through the Hunting Party talent) and Shadow Priests (through the Vampiric Touch talent). Each of these talents provides the buff to 10 mana-users, and Replenishment cannot be stacked; therefore, two players can provide the Replenishment buff to 20 mana-users in a raid.
  • Tier 8
    • Fanaticism now increases critical strike chance for judgement spells by 5/10/15/20/25%. (Threat reduction still inluded.)
    • NEW: Sanctified Wrath, 2 points. Increases the critical strike chance of Hammer of Wrath by 25/50%, reduces the cooldown of Avenging Wrath by 30/60 secs and while affected by Avenging Wrath 25/50% of all damage caused bypasses damage reduction effects.
  • Tier 9
    • NEW: Swift Retribution, 3 points. Your Retribution Aura also increase casting, melee, and ranged attack speeds by 1/2/3%. This effect does not stack with Improved Moonkin Aura (Druid, Balance talent).
    • Crusader Strike no longer refreshes judgements on the target.[/color] Now triggers any active seal, including damage seals. Costs 8% of base mana.
    • NEW: Sheath of Light, 3 points. Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 10/20/30% of your attack power and your critical healing spells heal the target for 20/40/60% of the healed amount over 12 seconds.
      • Only effective healing done is considered (i.e., overheal is ignored).
      • The HoT ticks every 3 seconds, and the first tick occurs 3 seconds after the heal which activates it.
      • The effect can be "rolled" by subsequent critical heals; each new critical heal resets the HoT timer, and all remaining healing from the previous HoT is added to the new one. Effectively this means that the HoT healing cannot be "wasted" by over-writing an old HoT.
  • Tier 10
    • NEW: Righteous Vengeance, 5 points. Increases critical damage bonus of your Judgement and Divine Storm spells by 5/10/15/20/25%.
  • Tier 11
    • NEW: Divine Storm, 1 point. (See above.)

Spell Coefficients

[table]

Ability

|Base (at Max Rank)|Spellpower|Attack Power|

Notes


Holy Light|4888-5444|+ 166% SP
Flash of Light|785-876|+ 100% SP
Holy Shock (Damage)|1296-1402|+ 43% SP
Holy Shock (Heal)|2401-2599|+ 81% SP
Seal of Righteousness||5.5% SP|+ 2.8% AP| damage per second
Seal of Vengeance (1 stack)||1.6% SP|+ 3.2% AP|per 3 seconds
Seal of Vengeance (5 Stack)||8% SP|+ 16% AP|per 3 seconds
Seal of Light||28% SP|+ 28% AP
Judgement of Light Effect||18% SP|+ 18% AP
Judgement of Wisdom Effect||9% SP|+ 9% AP
Judgements|1|+ 32% SP|+ 20% AP|
Judgement of Righteousness|1|+ 40% SP|+ 25% AP|
Judgement of Vengeance (5-stack)|1|+ 42% SP|+ 26.25% AP|
Judgement of Blood|25% Weapon Damage|+ 32% SP|+ 20% AP|
Judgement of Command|30% Weapon Damage|+ 32% SP|+ 20% AP|
Exorcism|1028-1146|+ 15% SP|+ 15% AP
Consecration|113|+ 4% SP|+ 4% AP|per second
Hammer of Wrath|1139-1257|+ 15% SP|+ 15% AP
Holy Wrath|1050-1234|+ 7% SP|+ 7% AP
Holy Shield|211|+ 9% SP|+ 5.6% AP
Avenger's Shield|846-1034|+ 7% SP|+ 7% AP
Retribution Aura|62|+ 6.66% SP|[/table]

(Thanks to DarKNecross/Sigurd for compiling this data into a pretty table.)


Paladin Glyphs
Unless otherwise indicated, all glyphs may be equipped at the level at which the affected spell becomes available.
  • Major Glyphs
    • Glyph of Avenger's Shield: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets but for 100% more damage.
    • Glyph of Avenging Wrath: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
    • Glyph of Cleansing: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20%.
    • Glyph of Consecration: Increases the duration and mana cost of your Consecration spell by 2 seconds.
    • Glyph of Crusader Strike: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your targe is incapacitated or stunned.
    • Glyph of Divinity: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target.
    • Glyph of Exorcism: Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.
    • Glyph of Flash of Light: Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially but also heals for 140% of its inital effect over 15 sec.
    • Glyph of Hammer of Justice: Increases your Hammer of Justice duration by 1 sec.
    • Glyph of Hammer of Wrath: Increases the range on Hammer of Wrath by 5 yards.
    • Glyph of Holy Light: Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount to up to 5 friendly targets within 100 yards of the initial target.
    • Glyph of Judgement: Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
    • Glyph of Righteous Defense: Increases the chance for your Righteous Defense ability to work successfully by 8% on each target.
    • Glyph of Seal of Blood: Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.
    • Glyph of Seal of Command: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
    • Glyph of Seal of Light: While Seal of Light is active the effect of your healing spells is increased by 5%.
    • Glyph of Seal of Vengeance: Your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption also grants 10 expertise while active.
    • Glyph of Seal of Wisdom: While Seal of Wisdom is active the cost of your healing spells is reduced by 5%.
    • Glyph of Spiritual Attunement: Increases the mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement by an additional 2%.
    • Glyph of Turn Evil: Reduces the casting time of your Turn Evil spell by 100%.
  • Minor Glyphs
    • Glyph of Blessing of Kings: Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%.
    • Glyph of Blessing of Might: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Might spell by 20 minutes when cast on yourself.
    • Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by 20 minutes when cast on yourself.
    • Glyph of Lay on Hands: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%.
    • Glyph of the Wise: Reduces the mana cost of your Seal of Wisdom by 50%.

Other Paladin-related mechanics/gameplay information
  • Death Knights in Lichborne (undead) form and Warlocks in demon form are susceptible to all Paladin anti-undead/demon spells, including Turn Evil (i.e., the Lichborne fear immunity apparently applies only to standard anti-humanoid fears.)
  • All two-minute potions now trigger a debuff called "potion sickness" that persists until combat ends.
  • Most tooltips for damage abilities and spells now display damage information including attack power and spell power scaling. Heals, however, do not.

Things We've Noticed

A collection of observations and topics of interest in this thread. This list is intended to highlight and summarize some of the more interesting content of this thread, for the benefit of new/casual readers. Some of these are "controversial" topics that have been (and continue to be) debated; others are simply observations.

Aura Ranges. Paladins are unique in having auras with a 30-yard range; every comparable ability for other classes (Deathknights, druids, hunters, etc) has a range of 45 yards, while shaman totems have a range of 40 yards. There's no obvious mechanical or balance reason for this difference. The Aura Mastery talent in Holy increases aura range to 40 yards, still leaving it short of the standard for other classes.


11-point Protection talent. The Protection tree has no "special" 11-point talent, unlike every other talent tree in the game.


Taunting. While Righteous Defense is a useful and unique taunt, it suffers from some drawbacks due to its mechanics. In particular:

  • It's impossible to taunt a single target from another tank who's tanking multiple mobs.
  • There's no guarantee that RD will affect a specific mob, if there are 4+ mobs attacking the same player.
  • It's impossible to taunt a mob who's targeting someone more than 40 yards away from the paladin (this makes some spread-out fights such as Gothik rather annoying and difficult).
  • The convoluted mechanics make it prone to errors due to lag and other factors (e.g., the mob switches targets just after RD is cast, so RD targets the wrong player, leaving the mob unaffected.)
  • There's no backup taunting ability available in case of a taunt resist (e.g., mocking blow, challenging shout).


Blessing of Kings. This ability is also unique in the game. There are many buffs that are specific to a single class but do not require talent points (Arcane Intellect, Power Word:Fortitude, etc) and there are many buffs that require talent points but can be provided by many classes (Imp. Devotion Aura/Tree of Life Aura). But Blessing of Kings is unique as the only talent that is specific to one class and requires talent points.

It's true that Blessing of Kings is easily available to any spec; the problem is that any spec is better off not getting Kings if possible, so in an ideal raid one and only one paladin will have Kings. The result is that any raid whose paladins vary from night to night will cause a lot of spec-changes as the paladins spec into and out of Kings.

Possible solutions that have been suggested:

  • Make Blessing of Kings a baseline paladin buff.
  • Make Blessing of Kings a baseline paladin buff at a reduced amount, such as +8% to all stats, with talent points to increase it to 10%. (This would follow the model of many other class-specific buffs.)
  • Give an identical but non-stacking buff to other classes/specs.
  • Remove BoK from the game entirely.


Righteous Vengeance. This talent provides a 25% critical damage bonus for two special abilities. Many consider this to be a bit lackluster for 5 points in a tier-10 talent. The Impale talent in the Warrior Arms tree, for example, is a much shallower talent that gives a 20% bonus to critical damage from all special attacks for only two talent points.



Acknowledgements

Thanks to (in no particular order):
  • The many, many posters who have contributed to this thread, and who have provided information and corrections that appear in this post. These people have contributed testing data, bug reports, numerical analysis, commentary, suggestions, proofreading, and organizational assistance to this post and this thread. Many of them deserve personal recognition, but the list of such people has become too long, and I'm afraid of forgetting people.
  • WoWHead.com and MMO-Champion.com for compiling data and information.
  • All regular posters on paladin topics on this forum.
  • The Elitist Jerks for hosting this public forum.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

#2 Pyralissa

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 04:51 AM

I really like the reording of talents and separating out "active" blessings into their own category (although hand is terrible name choice, Oath would have been much nicer sounding).

No new talents leaves a lot of questions for everyone, but my most immediate concern is nothing addressing Seal of Blood/Command disparities (which may be addressed with the talents).

#3 Guest_Aeverius_*

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 04:52 AM

Friggin sweet, glad to finally see this up. First impressions:


The "auras affecting raids" is nice, although it makes me wonder why, when Sanc Aura was something finally available to Prot paladins easily (either by making a Ret pally outside the tank group run it, or by having enough points to grab it without gimping ourselves too much), it was discontinued. At least Ret Aura is now actually useful, especially considering it finally got a spelldamage coefficient.

I like the way they cleaned up blessings- the commitment to addressing threat on a per-class basis (considering the massive change to Salv) is interesting.

Prot tree actually got more bloat, I assume changes are forthcoming. Also, Imp Dev Aura is Tier 4? Sheesh. Healing bonus on it is very nice though, especially since all the melee will be getting it. At least we finally got rid of Imp Conc Aura.

Holy Shield changes don't necessarily confirm the "no more crushing blows" rumors. Hmm.

Repentance (Retribution) mana cost changed to 9% of base, duration increased to 1 minute (10 second PvP duration), now usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids and Undead.


That's very interesting- I can't think of any current ability that has different durations in PvE and PvP. Diminishing returns on Fear and whatnot, sure, but not a flat listed difference. Nice buff to Ret CC, certainly.

Obviously, there are a lot more changes to come, but I actually expected to see more stuff happening in the initial notes. Judgment needs to be withheld until some sort of talents appear, but I like where it's going, from a Prot perspective anyway.

EDIT:

Second Question: Seal of Corruption = Seal of Blood for both factions?


Well, Seal of Blood hasn't been listed as removed (nor is it listed anywhere, actually), so it doesn't look like it, unless they came up with a new Seal to functionally replace both Vengeance and Blood without removing either one. I was hoping they'd roll Vengeance and Blood into one big dotting/never missing Judgement of Fun and give it to both factions, but that hasn't happened, apparently. Also, Seal of Corruption is a terrible name for a paladin ability.

EDIT #18- Forgot about changes to Flametongue totem, removing related comment about Wrath of Air.

EDIT #50- HOLY CRAP I SUCK AT READING COMPREHENSION

#4 flyingtoastr

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 04:54 AM

First thought is that they really want us to be masters of the buff. All these new "hand" buffs are giving us something fun to do during raids other than slamming FoL/Consecration/CS (See a warlock getting high on threat? Grief him with a Hand of Salv!) along with some very cool aura changes.

First question: If you have multiple paladins spec into the Judgement crit (Heart of the Crusader) do you get stacking crit if you apply the 3 Judgements (Wisdom, Light, Justice) for a total of 9% more crit?

Second Question: Seal of Corruption = Seal of Blood for both factions?

#5 PSGarak

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 04:59 AM

I hope for your sake Hand of Salvation has a cooldown or some sort, or you may be a hand-bot (ew?). Also, I assume that since Lay On Hands has its duration cut to 20 minutes and the mana-drain portion removed, the relevant talent will no longer reduce the cooldown by 20 minutes. I'm glad that Devotion Aura got a scaling component of some sort, even though it's tiny, I'm unsure how I like retribution aura scaling but more power to you.

Also, for that mockup: from what I can tell, normal improved ret aura still exists as-is, sanctified retribution is entirely unrelated. I would expect a dependancy at some point though.
Posted Image

#6 flyingtoastr

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:05 AM

I hope for your sake Hand of Salvation has a cooldown or some sort, or you may be a hand-bot (ew?).


I would expect it is going to be changed a lot between now and launch. The devs attempted to put a damage reducing ability on pally crap once before (old Forbearance) before they realized we were willing to grief the hell out of people to get it reverted.

#7 Playered

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:06 AM

From the Shaman notes:
Wrath of Air is now a flat 10% spell haste totem.

Kinda sad, I liked that totem. Still, this version is better for pretty much every caster class in the game, I suppose.


Flametongue Totem provides spell damage instead now, so there is only an additional gain of 10% haste for casters - no loss.

#8 Zaroua

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:09 AM

Avenging Wrath no longer causes Forebearance, damage increase reduced to 20%, now increases healing done by 20%.

A part of me hopes that this means the end, or at least replacement for Divine Illumination, one of the weakest 41 point talents in TBC.



Holy Shock (Holy) range changed to 20/40 yards when used on enemies/friends respectively, cooldown reduced to 6 seconds.

And this is another huge change for Holy Paladins. "Gigantique" change, one might say. 250% DPS increase from the skill, but the mana consumption is quite scary. Along with the extra 6% crit chance from Sanctified Light that Holy Shock will get, it'll certainly make Holy Paladins more dangerous than they are now.

Not only will it greatly reduce the power of spell lock out in PvP, it will also enable Paladins extra healing-on-the-move flexibility.



But in the end, I still expect a LOT more changes to come for Paladins in WotLK.
Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory

#9 Cathela

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:14 AM

Prot tree actually got more bloat, and now also appears to only have one Tier 1 talent, which is Divine Strength... hrm. I assume changes are forthcoming. Also, Imp Dev Aura is Tier 4? Sheesh. Healing bonus on it is very nice though, especially since all the melee will be getting it. At least we finally got rid of Imp Conc Aura.

Holy Shield changes don't necessarily confirm the "no more crushing blows" rumors. Hmm.

The new Anticipation is now on the first tier.

As for Holy Shield, it looks to me like they're trying to broaden the distinction between warrior and paladin tanks via Shield Block and Holy Shield. Shield Block looks great for blocking an upcoming damage burst, whereas Holy Shield is more of a semi-constant mitigation over a long period. So warriors would be better at managing burst damage, while paladins handle AoE better (still).

I'm curious to see where the Divine Strength change is going. Better block value return from strength? A strength-to-spelldamage conversion? Some other link between strength and threat?

Also, unless I've missed something, Tier 4 of Prot looks extremely thin.

That's very interesting- I can't think of any current ability that has different durations in PvE and PvP.

Polymorph does now. Not sure if there are others.

Also, for that mockup: from what I can tell, normal improved ret aura still exists as-is, sanctified retribution is entirely unrelated. I would expect a dependancy at some point though.

Thanks. Fixed it, although as you say it's unlikely to stay like that.
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#10 Pyralissa

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:14 AM

See a warlock getting high on threat? Grief him with a Hand of Salv!?


The other benefit is it becomes a personal threat dump as well.

#11 flyingtoastr

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:15 AM

Holy Shock (Holy) range changed to 20/40 yards when used on enemies/friends respectively, cooldown reduced to 6 seconds.

And this is another huge change for Holy Paladins. "Gigantique" change, one might say.


Another change that goes along with this is that Sanctified Light (6% crit to Holy Light) is going to affect Holy Shock as well (no mention of FoL though). Perhaps they are trying to make HS the "moving heal" that blue post was alluding to earlier today.

I'm curious to see where the Divine Strength change is going. Better block value return from strength? A strength-to-spelldamage conversion? Some other link between strength and threat?


Some 5 point dump that is useful for ret pallys to grab for Precision? ;)

I'm going to guess Block Values or a Strength > SP conversion though.

#12 Lamaros

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:29 AM

Some 5 point dump that is useful for ret pallys to grab for Precision? ;)

I'm going to guess Block Values or a Strength > SP conversion though.


Most likely all three. I can't see how Pallies will escape an AP --> SP conversion now, though it might be tweaked slightly differently from the DK one. But it makes too much sense from where I sit, for both Ret itemisation (and perhaps to a certain extent prot itemisation) and ensuring useful talents between trees. As you say, a AP(STR) -> SP makes such a talent useful for Ret and Prot in a number of ways and it would also mean much more value for Ret pallies getting their feet wet in the holy tree and other combinations.

#13 Corronach

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:33 AM

I guess I'm more jaded then some of you, but I don't see this as something to be excited about. Some of the changes are fantastic, but some have me quite concerned.

The good:

* All Auras now affect all party and raid members within the area of effect.
* Repentance (Retribution) mana cost changed to 9% of base, duration increased to 1 minute (10 second PvP duration), now usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids and Undead.
The new hand spells, except Salvation.
* Improved Devotion Aura (Protection) moved to tier 4, reduced to 3 ranks, now increases armor of Devotion Aura by 17/34/50% and increases all healing done to units affected by Devotion Aura by 1/2/3%.
* Improved Sanctity Aura (Retribution) renamed Sanctified Retribution, now causes all units affected by Retribution Aura to cause 2% more damage.
And I really like how the talents have been rearranged.

The bad:
* Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, now reduces total threat on the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds while also reducing all damage and healing done by 10%. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.
* Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, mana cost reduced, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% health.

The ugly:
* Improved Hammer of Justice (Protection) now reduces cooldwon by 10/20/30 secs.
Seal of Vengeance increased to 18 seconds...aka now featuring 3 more seconds of suck.
Paladin

The salvation thing is huge, atm you bring 3 Paladins for Wisdom/Might, Kings, and Salvation. I'm not sure yet what a Paladin brings to justify their 3rd spot atm. You'll want 1 with devotion aura, and 1 with imp. retribution aura. Hammer of Wrath being "buffed" still makes it absolutely useless for everyone but prot paladins. Holy paladins can't stop healing, and ret paladins are better off staying with their rotations. The hammer of justice change really bugs me, because it implies to me that paladins will have to run into combat every 30 seconds, eating more mana burns without seeing a whole lot of new mana saving techniques. I don't know exactly what I expected, but I can say I'd be a lot happier if I saw these exact changes without the salvation nerf (not saying I dislike the idea in general, but a better replacement then something that nerfs your raid dps instead of increases it), and if I saw something that all implied a fix to holy pallies in PVP. Holy shock being 40 yard range still sucks due to the mana efficiency of the spell, and the fact that we're oom in arenas before any other healers.

I just really hope Hand of Purity isn't our 51 point talent, because as it stands I really hope those new ones are something unique to pallies to inspire me again towards playing this class.

And the avenging wrath change is good for a lot of paladins, but it is a dps nerf in PVE for ret pallies. Not cool.

#14 burghy

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:36 AM

* Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, mana cost reduced, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% health.

Why is this bad?

And you didn't list as bad or ugly this "nice" change:
Blessing of Sacrifice renamed Hand of Sacrifice, is now only 1 rank and transfers 20% of the damage taken to the caster, duration reduced to 12 seconds, cooldown increased to 2 minutes. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.

#15 frmorrison

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:41 AM

The new Hand of X abilities are great, because crazy Mages (thinking of Manly) yelling "Hand Now, Hand Now!" may never get old.

Anyway, being able to use the Hand stuff while keeping Blessing up is great.

Holy Paladins will have 5 or 6 healing tools, Flash, HL, Shock, LoH, Hand of Sacrifice, and maybe Hand of Purity.


LoH says it has a 20 minute cooldown. However, if there was still imp LoH that reduces the cooldown to 15 or less minutes, shouldn't that work in Arena?


Tier 4 for imp Devo Aura means Holy Paladins can still get it, while getting the new 51 point talent.

#16 flyingtoastr

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:41 AM

* Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, mana cost reduced, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% health.

Why is this bad?.


Long story short:
With a cast time it resets the swing timer and results in a massive DPS loss. As it is not marked as changed to instant (like Holy Wrath was, which by the way looks crazy dope) it will still suffer from this limitation. I can get you the math if you really want it that badly, but it might be better just to trust me.

This is why our T6 bonus makes baby jesus cry himself to sleep.

#17 burghy

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:43 AM

Still... the ability is buffed.

#18 frmorrison

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:45 AM

* Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, now reduces total threat on the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds while also reducing all damage and healing done by 10%. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.
* Hammer of Wrath is now considered a Retribution spell, moved from Holy, mana cost reduced, missile speed increased, now usable on targets below 35% health.

The avenging wrath change is good for a lot of paladins, but it is a dps nerf in PVE for ret pallies. Not cool.


Did you see the new imp Righteous Fury? Instead of 60%, it is 90%, so tank threat is buffed. Hand of Salv makes having more Paladins more interactive, other than hitting 2 buttons.

Hammer of Wrath being a Ret spell implies it will scale with attack power vise spell damage.

There is a little nerf with AW, but at least you don't lose the ability to bubble yourself.

#19 Corronach

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:45 AM

Still... the ability is buffed.


0*x = 0

What flyingtoastr said about Hammer. Unless it was instant, it's not good.

And you didn't list as bad or ugly this "nice" change:
Blessing of Sacrifice renamed Hand of Sacrifice, is now only 1 rank and transfers 20% of the damage taken to the caster, duration reduced to 12 seconds, cooldown increased to 2 minutes. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.

That's because I was too disappointed to read thoroughly, that's clearly an ugly change. The good part is it can be used to get some mana back only in PVE, but it will be a significant amount through spiritual attunement. The straight up nerf part is that the duration was decreased, and the cooldown increased making it even less useful in PVP. I'm sorry I missed this one, because it clearly makes us worse in 2s.

Did you see the new imp Righteous Fury? Instead of 60%, it is 90%, so tank threat is buffed. Hand of Salv makes having more Paladins more interactive, other than hitting 2 buttons.

Believe me, I want more than anything for pallies to have more then 2 buttons, but crap that lowers the raid's dps instead of a buff that increases the raid's dps is not good. Not to forget with how Blizzard is designing Sunwell encounters, do you really think Pallies have the GCD's to spam that ability?

#20 flyingtoastr

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:45 AM

Still... the ability is buffed.


It was "buffed" in 2.2 (IIRC) as well, which still only changed it from "utter shit" to "slightly less utter shit".

Unless it becomes instant or doesn't reset the swing timer (or gets some massive AP scaling component so that the pushback is worth the loss of swing damage akin to Slam) no ret pally will ever use it in a rotation.




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