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The WotLK profession thread


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#41 Copernicus

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 02:52 PM

Profession-specific bonuses...

Alchemy

* Mixology
*** WotLK Flasks get 32 itemization points, elixirs get 16 points. Doubles duration on all flasks and elixirs.
*** Using WotLK Flasks, gives 37 spellpower, 64 attack power, 13 MP5, or 320 health
* Crazy Alchemist's Potion
*** Alchemists can still transmute items on a daily cooldown
* Endless Mana Potion, Endless Healing Potion, and Endless Rejuvenation Potion
* Indestructible Alchemist's Stone, Mercurial Alchemist's Stone, and Mighty Alchemist's Stone
*** Alchemy discoveries are on a weekly cooldown - Northrend Alchemy Research - Spell - World of Warcraft

Leatherworking

* New WotLK drums are not in the spell database at the moment Current drums are unusable at level 80.
* Reduced cost on leg armor - does not give a special bonus
* Fur Lining - Fur Lining - Attack Power - Spell - World of Warcraft Fur Lining - Spell Power - Spell - World of Warcraft and Fur Lining - Stamina - Spell - World of Warcraft - Gives a stat boost over the equivalent enchant (+37 spellpower, +64 attack power). There's also a stamina one for 90 stamina, but no stamina enchant yet. There are also resistances for fur linings, for an additional 60 resists.

Skinning

* Master of Anatomy - Spell - World of Warcraft

Mining

* Toughness - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Smelt Titansteel - Spell - World of Warcraft (20 hour cooldown transmute)

Herbalism

* Fire Leaf
* Fire Seed
* Lifeblood - Spell - World of Warcraft


Enchanting

* Enchant Ring - Assault - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Enchant Ring - Greater Spellpower - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Enchant Ring - Stamina - Spell - World of Warcraft

Jewelcrafting

* Bright Dragon's Eye, Solid Dragon's Eye, etc.
*** Complete list of all Dragon's Eye gems - dragon's eye - Wowhead Search
*** A Jewelcrafter can have up to three Dragon's Eye gems equipped. They can be the same or different. They act like every color of gem for socket bonuses and metagems.
* Ruby Hare, Emerald Board, Sapphire Owl, Twilight Serpent, and Monarch Crab
* Gem Perfection - Spell - World of Warcraft -- A chance to craft green-quality gems into slightly better cuts. The gems produced will be in between uncommon and rare in stats.
*** Jewelcrafting has its own set of dailies, with which rare gem recipes (5 tokens), metagem recipes (8 tokens), and Dragon's Eyes (1 token) can be purchased. - Dalaran Jewelcrafter's Token

Inscription

* Shoulder enchants - Master's Inscription of the Axe - Spell - World of Warcraft Master's Inscription of the Crag - Spell - World of Warcraft Master's Inscription of the Pinnacle - Spell - World of Warcraft and Master's Inscription of the Storm - Spell - World of Warcraft - Effectively a bonus of +37 spell power, 64 attack power, or 32 dodge rating over the epic reputation version
* Tarot cards - Darkmoon Card - Spell - World of Warcraft Greater Darkmoon Card - Spell - World of Warcraft and Darkmoon Card of the North - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Inscription discoveries are on a daily cooldown - Northrend Inscription Research - Spell - World of Warcraft and Minor Inscription Research


Tailoring

* Lightweave Embroidery - Spell - World of Warcraft - 50% proc rate with 45 second cooldown
* Swordguard Embroidery - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Darkglow Embroidery - Spell - World of Warcraft - 35% proc rate with 75 second cooldown
*** Embroidery is a self-only cloak enchant
* Four epic flying carpets and one regular version - carpet - Wowhead Search - acts exactly like a mount - Swift Flying Carpet
* Frostweave Net
* Reduced cost for spellthreads on armor
* Three transmutable cloths - Spellweave, Moonshroud - Spell - World of Warcraft , and Ebonweave - Spell - World of Warcraft
* A Guide to Northern Cloth Scavenging

Engineering

* Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Hyperspeed Accelerators - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Flexweave Underlay - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Nitro Boosts - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Personal Electromagnetic Pulse Generator - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Belt-Clipped Spynoculars - Spell - World of Warcraft
* Various goggles - Armored Titanium Goggle, Charged Titanium Specs, Electroflux Sight Enhancers, Greensight Gogs, Truesight Ice Enhancers, Visage Liquification Goggles, and Weakness Specrtalizers
* Bombs and decoys - Explosive Decoy, Saronite Bomb, Cobalt Frag Bomb, and Goblin Thermal Sapper Charge
* Gnomish Army Knife
* Trinkets - Gnomish Lightning Generator, Noise Machine, and Sonic Booster
* Portable mailbox and vendor - MOLL-E and Scrapbot Construction Kit
* Wormhole: Gadgetzan Gadgetzan group portal

Blacksmithing

* Socket Gloves - Spell - World of Warcraft and Socket Bracers - Spell - World of Warcraft
*** A socketed item can still be enchanted. A socketed item also gains a Blacksmithing requirement.

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#42 rooj

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 02:52 PM

Could Mages get rid of the potion sickness debuff with invisibility?

#43 Pasco

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:04 PM

Maybe they should expand the system they use in the armor crafting professions to counter the "New ring? Have to relevel enchanting :(" effect. Like here:

The enchant on your ring would look like: +20 Healing (Requires Enchanting (350))

Same for the JC-only gems and for everything that is for one profession only but can be used after dropping, like the new Leatherworking only enchants, socket from Blacksmithing (don't know if this is BS only), and so on.

So you would have to choose one upgrade (or two) and don't have to level up every time like Masaren mentioned.

#44 Zurgat

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:11 PM

Profession-specific bonuses...

Blacksmithing, Tailoring, and Engineering are not yet implemented



Blacksmiths can add 1 socket to weapons which do not yet have a socket.
Meaning dual wielding players get 2x +20 stats from gems. Unless the sockets also apply a bonus of +2 agi or +3 stam or such.

I'm not sure yet whether they'll be able to add sockets if the item already has some of it's own.


Also, interesting about those leg armors, i wasn't sure about those before.
The names also seem to have changed in beta, compared to alpha.

* Jormungar Leg Armor - Increase Stamina by 45 and Agility by 15.
* Jormungar Leg Chitin - Increase Stamina by 50 and Agility by 18.
* Dragonscale Leg Armor - Increase Stamina by 72 and Agility by 35.

* Nerubian Leg Armor - Increase attack power by 60 and critical strike rating by 15.
* Nerubian Leg Chitin - Increase attack power by 70 and critical strike rating by 18.
* Protoscale Leg Armor - Increase attack power by 100 and critical strike rating by 36.


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#45 Vihermaali

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:31 PM

I can already see having to level up tailoring or leatherworking every time I get an upgrade for pants, leveling up smithing to put a socket in a new weapon, then leveling up jcing to make a jcing gem for that socket. Then Ill have to level up enchanting to enchant my new ring, then releveling alchemy and inscription for those buffs in order to maximize dps/healing/tanking.

It seems were completely moving away from professions being a choice and going to becoming a class and spec defining decision, at least for end game raiding. It just seems to me that what was started in TBC will become much worst now.

Unless everything is equalized, which it cant and wont be from what weve seen so far, youll have professions that stand out and are optimal choices for a given class and spec. For gathering professions, unless you have the buffs they give scale with each newly added endgame raid instance, they quickly become obsolete and really worth nothing as we upgrade gear.

For myself, this is all exacerbated by the fact that if I do have to change a profession because X profession gives such a benefit to my class and my spec, then I have to drop either tailoring or enchanting to do so.


I see all professions giving different kind of bonuses, what are. Well, bonuses. I'm Alchemist/Herbalist and I can take everything Sunwell can throw at me (haven't killed KJ yet, but seen first hand what he can do in low %'s). And after finished still left standing asking for more. While having no unique JC items, with no LW drums in my party, with no special tailoring items or extra enchanting enchants.

While I understand that only way to increase your performance as dps may be gearing up, I doubt Blizzard will ever do so tight dps check that would require doing what you describe. Even one of hardest dps checks ever, M'uru, was nerfed (fairly) soon after release.

Unlike popular delusion implies, you can do Karazhan with full dungeon blue raid that has 0 professions. And repeat all the kills. This applies to all raiding levels (meaning they only require loot from previous tier). And will most likely continue to apply in WotLK.

#46 djhbrd

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:31 PM

Preface: My Rogue is a jewelcrafter/miner, my Resto Shaman is an herbalist/potion alchemist.

I'm pretty happy with the alchemy changes so far. I've never really had to chain pots, being my alt the toughest content I do on him is T5 and I don't find it to be necessary. That said I definitely can't relate to Sunwell healers, but I see this as a similar "nerf" to the 2.1 battle/guardian elixir change. It will really help people who don't want to have to spend hours farming pots every day so they can match the level at which a given encounter is tuned.

Alchemical Blood looks pretty good, and should allow Blizzard to make some new alchemist stones if they choose to go that path again, with new special effects. I could see them doing something that when used, gives a partial benefit of the flask/elixirs you have equipped to your whole party (i.e. Rogue is using a 35 agility/20 crit elixir. He uses his trinket and gives 50% of the benefit, 17 agility 10 crit, to the party for 20 seconds). Obviously this is pure speculation, but seeing as they gave all alchemists AB, hopefully they won't get rid of alchemy trinkets altogether. It would be terrible to have a profession that is 100% consumables/transmutes.

I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the mining/jewelcrafting changes on the other hand. The stamina buff is nice, but overall useless for most players. I have friends of every class who mine because of, well, the cash. So this helps the tanks who mine, but what about the other classes who would rather have a more useful buff without dropping their professions (skinners get 1.25% crit at 70, I don't know how much that equates to at 80). Jewelcrafting will still be a huge money maker and I plan to dump cash on getting every pattern early, but I'm disappointed that Blizzard hasn't gone in a new direction with it. It appears to be the same green/blue/epic/BoP gems and probably the same types of trinkets (mp5 with a mana-over-time buff, AP and stealth with a used +AP buff, etc.). Can we have some more actually useful crafted accessories?

EDIT: While I'm here I might as well throw in my thoughts on inscription. In my circle of friends people are already talking about jumping ship of their professions to grab inscription and go with that. The thought of having a knockback on their attack or an extremely shortened cast time seems too great to resist. I really hope Blizzard doesn't go overboard with inscriptions. Will all of them be self-only, or just some? Either way, they need to balance the self-only inscriptions in a way that isn't overpowering. I think they did that well with ring enchants in TBC. 40 healing/24 damage/8 stats/4 weapon damage was nice, but was it required? Some may argue that it was, but for the most part it was fairly balanced.

#47 panny

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:45 PM

Another thing which needs to be addressed in some way is tailoring and cloth drops. Id like to see some kind of benefit to drops of cloth if a tailor is killing a mob vs a non tailor. Tailoring for too long has the items needed to craft drop from mobs around the world, but anyone can farm these items. There should be an advantage to a tailor farming cloth vs a non tailor. Maybe something along the lines of 2x normal cloth drops if a tailor looted a mob vs non tailor. Something so that my tailor main has a reason to farm for cloth, so that if I need to farm for cloth, I can actually do so.


That makes no sense. Currently, no craftng profession has its gathering profession for free like Tailoring and Enchanting does. Leatherworking/Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting/Engineering/Inscription all require a second profession to support them. Why would a change to make Tailoring even more self-sufficient make sense?

#48 Hypatia

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:45 PM

On the subject of permanent vs. swappable inscriptions: I kind of like the idea of permanent inscriptions that are reasonably expensive. While we've seen that major inscriptions are going to be quite powerful, I get the feeling that they may provide an interesting and useful counter to the flexibility of easily swappable talent specs. Let's look at the "powerful" example we've seen so far:

Glyph of Healing Touch - Decreases the cast time of Healing Touch by 1.5 sec., the mana cost by -25% and the amount healed by -50%.


My question here is: Does that say what I think it does? Clearly, it makes HT faster to cast. However, the mana cost and amount healed are less clear to me. Presumably, they're both "in the same direction". So either it makes it faster to cast and cost 25% more but heal 50% more, or it makes it faster to case and cost 25% less but heal 50% less. My presumption is that it costs more and heals more.

In either case, however, there's a trade-off here—either more speed for more mana spent or more speed for less healing done. You're changing a core spell in a pretty fundamental way, and you get to do this kind of major change to two of your spells. It seems to me that while there might end up being "standard" inscription builds for different roles, this isn't going to be as big a hang-up as having entirely different talent builds for different roles.

So, what I expect to see happen is for people to have two specs (swappable out of combat on a cooldown?), and a set of expensive inscriptions. The inscriptions define their specialty spells, the things they're the very best at. But, a druid who has one spec set for healing isn't going to be hamstrung by not having inscriptions for healing--they'll still be a very solid healer. They just won't, for example, be specialized in healing touch for very fast heals.

So, instead of "I'm a feral druid" or "I'm a resto druid", you might have somebody who's "I'm a feral and resto druid, specialized for fast healing." They can bring it hard in both roles, as long as they're geared up for both roles. It's just that they can bring it slightly harder on the healing end, particularly when there's a need for speed. And, with luck, the spec choice can be made between fights. Finally, perhaps, the holy grail of flexibility in raid composition without swapping people in and out or respeccing regularly?


On the other side, if Blizzard does things right, people will change inscriptions over the course of their character's life. The easy reason is "Oh look, better inscriptions are dropping off of bosses in T8 instance A." The more complex reason is that as the stat mix of gear changes, and as experience changes, I think we may find that the same inscriptions that were optimal at one point aren't optimal at another. And more importantly, it's my hope that it's actually worthwhile to have different inscriptions represented in raid, rather than same inscriptions.

Really, we'll just have to see. Given the rabid min-maxing nature of people, it'll probably turn out less rosy than I would like. But still, I hope. :)

#49 Smurrf

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:45 PM

While I (and most people, I'm sure) don't really enjoy having to farm for mats for stacks of pots and the like, I can't help but feel that it's going to lead to problems. The difference between this and the elixir/flask change is that those provide a constant, static buff. Pots are more dynamic, in that you mold them to the current situation. The other problem? The benefit vs the cooldown. On my pally tank, for instance, I don't use very many health pots, but I use mana pots fairly regularly. On my warlock, I use destruction pots in ZA runs, as well as anywhere else I can get a shaman in my group.

I guess what concerns me is the possibility that while I may gain some use out of Mana/Health pots even with the change, things like Haste/Destruction pots will no longer be used. After all, what's the point of blowing your one pot for the fight, if something randomly comes up and negates you being able to use it? Some sort of 'Move out of the Fire™' effect springs to mind as one example.

I'm going to have to wait and see about this...while I like the reduced Drums, this seems like too much on the surface.

#50 Copernicus

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:49 PM

Blacksmiths can add 1 socket to weapons which do not yet have a socket.
Meaning dual wielding players get 2x +20 stats from gems. Unless the sockets also apply a bonus of +2 agi or +3 stam or such.

I'm not sure yet whether they'll be able to add sockets if the item already has some of it's own.


Currently, the datamined spell to socket weapons is not restricted to items the blacksmith already owns. It also uses the "permanent enchantment" slot on an item... which is probably why it's not yet implemented. It is reasonable to assume that socketing weapons (and maybe shields and off-hands) will be the perk that blacksmiths get, but until the ability gets implemented or the datamined spell makes the item soulbound, I'm not going to include it on the list.

Socket One-Handed Weapon - Spell - World of Warcraft

#51 Calixtus

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:53 PM

I really don't think there's anything that can be done to make the crafting professions more profitable than they were in BC. Primal Nethers for a long time were a big source of crafting profitability, so if there is something similar in the early stages of WotLK, that will be true again. But there are several things working again professions that keep them down.

<Removed for space>

So why does a jewelcrafter make more money than a blacksmith?

I'm not saying I disagree with all the points you raised, but I'd argue that it is about game design more than anything - and not just because I firmly belief game design shape player psychology. Primal Nether's were indeed an excellent source of income, and the decision not to allow the craftables made from it - or the Nether Vortex - to scale is a design decision. The decision to make them BoE, is a design decision. But, all that aside, why does a jewelcrafter generally make more money than a blacksmith?

It's not because it's impossible to design professions to make money, just look at the way professions are currently implemented. It's because the ways in which to make the big money is unevenly distributed. How many classes/spec's frequently need blacksmithing? I honestly have no idea, but I've never needed one, bar that time with the enchanting rods. How many classes/spec's frequently need jewelcrafting? Everyone. Enchanting? Everyone. Alchemy? Everyone. Engineering? Not me. Tailoring, Leatherworking? Hmmm... Well... Partial yay, for leg enchants and that-something-I-got-a-month-ago-that-can't-remember?

There's a trend here as well; The moneymakers are the ones that require a A) Recipies that are not readily available to your brother-in-laws aunts alt B) Many transactions (you're perfectly right when you note that no significant amounts of money is made per transaction due to undercutting) C) A widespread demand for the products. You could give each of these abilities a significantly wider spread, either by simply inventing wider arrays of products that will frequently be in demand or more inter-dependancy that ties in the "leftover" profession into the "main" professions lines-of-production.


I'd also like to point out that the primary benefit from enchants-on-scrolls is who gets paid. My last enchant required 8 Large Prismatic Shards. I could, and I practically did, aquire these from a lvl 55 DE alt with nowhere near the time invested in the profession as, well, just about any "real" enchanter. The guy with the actual recipe got 10g for his time. Now, market value of LPMs 20g+, and since I got those by buying stuff on the auction house, never selling any cloth (I send it to a guildbank until I have a 1000, then I give my brother the puppy eye look til he logs on to his tailor and makes me money, sorry, green's to DE on my own alt)... Will the actual "cost" of the enchants shift because they're available on the auctionhouse, and thus suffering from the same undercutting? Not likely.

Will the money end up in the pocket of the dude with the enchant recipie or in the pockets of my DE alt? There's where the system turns seriously beneficial for enchanters.

#52 Sydane

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:59 PM

A "20g fee" isn't a tip. A tip is extra, which the other player may or may not give you. While it is nice, it should never be expected.



Which is exactly the point. Crafting should having nothing to do with tips. It's a service. The ability to do that service is something you either had to farm for, pay for, or otherwise obtain. Every single enchant, craft, or whatever is done for you should come with a fee. The idea that is so pervasive that it's an optional tip is exactly why it will never be profitable to be a crafter in this game. A tip is something you give to your guildie who is assuming to do it for free. I guarantee that no enchanter who sits around in trade chat all day doing enchants for tips makes even a fraction of what a gatherer would do in the same amount of time, except very infrequent occasions like the release of a new arena season.

#53 Lord BEEF

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:01 PM

The Healing Touch glyph isn't great. Keep in mind that druids are getting Nourish at level 80, which is basically flash heal that gets a bonus if you heal a target with a hot. If you use the glyph for healing touch, you basically get the same thing as nourish but more expensive in mana and without the synergy with hots.

#54 Sydane

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:10 PM

Blizzard is never going to balance this game around the tiny percent of the players that are willing to level and unlearn 4 or 5 professions in order to gain a tenth of a percent to their stats. If you're willing to go that extra mile to get that gain, that's great, you deserve it, but it doesn't effect game balance at all. Now, if every single caster feels obligated to dump one of their professions and pick up tailoring because the gear is so powerful, that's a balance issue that should be addressed. There should definitely be a benefit to each crafting profession, and while they don't have to be exactly balanced, you shouldn't feel forced to take one particular profession in order to be competitive.

#55 swills

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:11 PM

I imagine the druid HT glyph will be useable at much lower levels and give druids an alternative to Nourish while they level up. I don't expect all Glyphs to be useful at level 70 and this looks like one that is specifically aimed at giving druids a fast heal at lower levels.

#56 Prinsesa

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:15 PM

Question regarding LW: Are there Northrend-level leg armors that can be used non-LWs? The only ones I've seen are LW-specific, and if we don't get non-LW armor, I'm pretty sure everyone else is going to keep using Nethercleft/Nethercobra in the interest of min-maxing. It's going to be a huge PITA to farm Outland mats and find a Cenarion exalted LW if that ever happens.
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#57 Chicken

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:23 PM

Question regarding LW: Are there Northrend-level leg armors that can be used non-LWs? The only ones I've seen are LW-specific, and if we don't get non-LW armor, I'm pretty sure everyone else is going to keep using Nethercleft/Nethercobra in the interest of min-maxing. It's going to be a huge PITA to farm Outland mats and find a Cenarion exalted LW if that ever happens.

There are in fact. Just going to link MMO-Champion's page for it: Profession - Leatherworking

Of those only the Wyrmscale Leg Armor is leatherworking only. It's fairly big upgrade over the normal ones though.

#58 Norfair

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:26 PM

My question here is: Does that say what I think it does? Clearly, it makes HT faster to cast. However, the mana cost and amount healed are less clear to me. Presumably, they're both "in the same direction". So either it makes it faster to cast and cost 25% more but heal 50% more, or it makes it faster to case and cost 25% less but heal 50% less. My presumption is that it costs more and heals more.


That would be pretty overpowered. In TBC values, that would mean a 1.5 sec cast that heals for near 10k and crits for 15k. Granted at a high price, but it would still make HT extremely good, especially if you combine it with downranking. I'm pretty confident it's meant as -1.5 sec off the cast, 75% of the original mana costs and 50% of the original amount healed. It seems like a pretty useless glyph as we already have 2 "fast heals" (Nourish and Regrowth). I see this even as a downgrade as I wouldn't have any big heals with it anymore and my "instant heal" will put out 50% less.

Also, after seeing devilsaurs becoming hunter pets and feral druids getting a polar bear glyph, I can only pray for a minor glyph that would make treeform look like the Ancient Protectors in Darnassus. ^^

#59 Douglas

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:47 PM

It seems like a pretty useless glyph as we already have 2 "fast heals" (Nourish and Regrowth). I see this even as a downgrade as I wouldn't have any big heals with it anymore and my "instant heal" will put out 50% less.


Depends on how it interacts with the spell's coefficient, Naturalist, Tranquil Spirit, Moonglow, and Nature's Grace. Depending on how those details shake out, this could be extremely powerful.

#60 Habanero

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:52 PM

One thing I've always wondered is that how people come so dependant on those extra buffs and consumables. Suuure, drums and such are a nice bonus, but with even M'uru dps requirements nerfed, I don't think they are required for any TBC fight. We cleared BT months and months with almost zero consumable usage, why would anything change now? True, DPS checks became harder if there is a debuff on drums, so I'm just going to ask "Why did you become dependant on an optional profession?"



I was able to do (not nerfed version of) M'uru by using only 1 manapot during whole almost 10-minute fight. I'm very confident I can do same thing for Kil'jaeden. I can't talk for other classes really, but I don't think mana will be a problem if you actually put some thought in managing it.

My point is, while current professions do take down the difficulty in raiding, they are hardly required in order to succeed.

That's right, you can't talk for other classes. So far there has been no consideration in WotLK toward mp5-based classes who already have extremely poor regen options outside of consumables. I don't see what value OOM Shamans are going to provide at 80. Nice they gave the class that already has Spiritual Attunement an Evocation as well.




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