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World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS]


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#41 Guest_Addled_*

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:08 PM

I think the Plaguelands are probably the very reason the Scourge went after Darnassus/Orgrimmar. In the Eastern Kingdom the Forsaken, Blood Elves, Argent Dawn, and Scarlet Crusade are all mobilized against the Scourge. They are constantly on guard against the threat from the cold north. In northern Kalimdor, there's no great threat other than some demonic remnants from the Legion's invasion. The Horde and Alliance forces would have their guards down.


I would think that Teldrassil has some defenses to it; the druids grew a giant tree, surely they could cause the tree to, say, fire giant thorns or something. Not to mention that the Night Elves already have an excuse to hit up Northrend: early NE civilizations were there, and they grew the World Tree Vordrassil there.

The (apparent) excuse for razing Orgrimmar is so Blizzard can rebuild it in a better, newer fashion. But Orgrimmar is a major hub for the Horde, so that's fine. Darnassus is not a major hub for the Alliance, there's no particular reason to rebuild it other than to waste WoW designer time. If anything, I'd rather that the developers rebuild Gnomeregan (the instance, not necessarily a new city, although that would be nice too).

#42 Starfire

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:30 PM

Well, if I remember correctly... its Amnennar the Coldbringer in Barrens tied to the Scourge? So there's certainly a Scourge presence in Barrens which is close to Orgrimmar. I never really saw how the Scourge forces get there, and as far as I knew they were just there to gain a toehold, but it seemed really arbitary. Perhaps this will tie in more with that.

Also, no one really knows what exactly is going to happen to Darnassus and more importantly, where are we establishing that it IS Darnassus? But Darnassus could use a few tweaks, namely it could use a forge/anvil that isn't in Auberdine. Darnassus feels "out of the way" more than any other city in the game... its worst than Theramore.

Maybe the exact reason you state for NOT razing Darnassus IS the reason they want to rebuild it. IE rather than leave it being an out of the way place they want to make it an Alliance quest hub.

But like I said earlier, Night Elves have been the protectors of Kalmindor for millennia... that should bear weight.

#43 Emeraude

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:56 PM

Ok, so, the entire Darnassus being razed is 100% speculation based on nothing. :P

I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it in Northrend, you'd think the Night Elf NPCs, or even the Dragons, somebody would make SOME sort of mention of Teldrassil being burned.

With the Horde, the quests hint(and in Hellscream's case completely confirm) that something happened in the old world to the Horde and Orgrimmar, and that the entire Northrend campaign they're currently leading is in retaliation to the Scourge's attack on them.

On the Alliance side of things, Stormwind's King Varian Wrynn(Lo'Gosh to you Hordlings) is leading the Campaign with the assistance of the Argent Crusade and Tirion Fordring, as well as Bolvar Fordragon, who's primary forces are fighting up at the entrance to Icecrown. There's no real mention of what set the Alliance off in the first place though. It DOES however seem that the whole of Stormwind is united, Goldshire/Lakeshire/Darkshire/Westfall forces are all in Northrend, meaning that the unrest you encountered in the Human starting areas from 1-35 are qualmed. There is also a heavy presence of Humans, Dwarves/Gnomes(And their new steam boats/siege weapons), left out of the loop are the Draenei and Night Elves. When I say out of the loop, you just don't see a strong presence of them, in comparison to the Humans/Dwarves.

Getting back to the Horde for a moment, I do like the small hints of blind savagery in the Horde. Hellscream is extremely brash, and he clashes with Saurfang over the campaign's progress. In addition Saurfang secretly supports you from the shadows, while the bulk of the Horde forces in Northrend scream their fanatic loyalty to Hellscream repeatedly. Overlord Agmar in Dragonblight is just downright scary, "It is from this throne that I issue the command of Hellscream. His word is life and his word is death." It is afterall the Warsong Offensive, but goodness if I wouldn't want to cross the current Horde as Alliance or Scourge at the moment.
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#44 Mekasha

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 01:34 AM

A Desperate Alliance - Quest - World of Warcraft

"Good <name>, the Lich King plagues us -- both Horde and Aliiance -- with disease and invasion. Only by joining our strengths can the two great cultures of Azeroth survive against his assault.

In Shattrath, in the Terrace of Light, that alliance has been struck. To aid our struggle against the Lich King, go to the new Alliance camp in the Terrace of Light and speak with Bishop Lazaril."

Seems like we'll definately be seeing a new invasion type deal that affects more than just Ogrimmar, including maybe some pervasive low level disease in the main cities for a couple weeks before Wolk goes live.

edit:

Actually looking a bit deeper, it seems there's 10 versions of this quest, one for each race, The horde ones specifically state there's a 'zombie plague' that needs to be cured:

<name>, the Lich King plagues us with invasion. To beat him back to his frozen throne, the Horde and Alliance must stand resolute together. In Shattrath, in the Terrace of Light, that alliance has been struck.

To aid our struggle against the Lich King, go to the new apothecary camp in the Terrace of Light and speak with Grand Apothecary Putress. He leads desperate research to end the zombie plague. His cure is our salvation.

Be swift, <name>. Each moment passed is another innocent life lost.

#45 Liebestod

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 12:18 PM

I mentioned the thing about Darnassus getting raised, and it's something I heard being passed along from elsewhere a while back when the news about Org getting raised came out. Could be wrong, naturally.

One tangential point that I want to make is that I've been pretty disappointed so far by how few new Outland races/forces have been involved in Northrend so far. Blood Elves don't count, but I don't think there are really any Draenei camps (haven't played Alliance though), and I was hoping to see some Naaru helping the fight, or maybe it'd be cool to see some Arrakoa paladins, etc. So far, though, all I've seen is one and only one Ethereal get involved. Which was actually kinda cool, the potential of a Consortium / Blue Dragonflight alliance, but I gather that that subplot isn't going to go anywhere. It really feels like TBC may well have never happened.. I understand why the new Outland races and demons are largely absent, but there's no reason why the "good" races shouldn't show up.

Plus, they need to do with Azuregos what they did with Kazzak in TBC. And they need to use the unique Naxx models (Grobbulus, Thaddius are the main ones) more. I've seen one Grobbulus-type monster and I think there's a Thaddius-type somewhere as well. There should be more though.

#46 Tyrian

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 12:43 PM

Has there been any mention of the Maelstrom (Queen Azshara), Emerald Dream or Titan "Scheduled revisitation" in any quests yet? Given that WC3 ended with "Arthas, Illidan and Vashj" as the primary characters - TBC+WOTLK is set to have used up all three of them and leave us without a character tie-in many veteran WC3 fans are personally familiar with. Id think having such an intimate character players can respond to would be very important for Blizzards potential new players and marketing future games: character recognition/familiarity when buying new Blizzard games is important (Ex-WC3 players will surely respond favourably by seeing a WOTLK box with Arthas's face on it) A new hero/villain will need to be created/groomed as early as possible. Im interested to see whether there are any hints from quest/zone text at where the story (and long term: next expansion) could go.

#47 Crossbones

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 12:58 PM

Getting back to the Horde for a moment, I do like the small hints of blind savagery in the Horde. Hellscream is extremely brash, and he clashes with Saurfang over the campaign's progress. In addition Saurfang secretly supports you from the shadows, while the bulk of the Horde forces in Northrend scream their fanatic loyalty to Hellscream repeatedly. Overlord Agmar in Dragonblight is just downright scary, "It is from this throne that I issue the command of Hellscream. His word is life and his word is death." It is afterall the Warsong Offensive, but goodness if I wouldn't want to cross the current Horde as Alliance or Scourge at the moment.


That's pretty cool. I hate when they end up making the horde too goody-goody which they do occasionally. Give me savage orcs/trolls and revenge-crazed forsaken/BEs and I will be happy.

#48 Hylo

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 01:30 PM

I think there's a Thaddius-type somewhere as well.

Thrym in Zul'Drak uses Thaddius model. While browsing Wikipedia article about Þrymr (Thrym, Thrymr) I saw some other familiar names (Jotun, Freya) that are also in the game - all elites.

#49 Liebestod

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 01:31 PM

Has there been any mention of the Maelstrom (Queen Azshara), Emerald Dream or Titan "Scheduled revisitation" in any quests yet? Given that WC3 ended with "Arthas, Illidan and Vashj" as the primary characters - TBC+WOTLK is set to have used up all three of them and leave us without a character tie-in many veteran WC3 fans are personally familiar with. Id think having such an intimate character players can respond to would be very important for Blizzards potential new players and marketing future games: character recognition/familiarity when buying new Blizzard games is important (Ex-WC3 players will surely respond favourably by seeing a WOTLK box with Arthas's face on it) A new hero/villain will need to be created/groomed as early as possible. Im interested to see whether there are any hints from quest/zone text at where the story (and long term: next expansion) could go.


There are a few mentions of Azshara and the Emerald Dream (Green Dragon questchain in Maelstrom), but nothing out of the ordinary. Titans get a lot of mention, but nothing about a revisitation afaik - maybe that'll be for Storm Peaks.

I don't think Blizzard will tie in the next expansion's plot too strongly with the current development. That'd spoil the surprise, I guess, and possibly commit them to story threads which they haven't really thought through yet.

Relatedly, Crystalsong Forest is supposed to have one of those Emerald Dream portals, but it looks like Blizzard isn't going to add one... kind of annoying, especially since I'd put money on Emerald Dream being the focus of the next expansion..

Thrym in Zul'Drak uses Thaddius model. While browsing Wikipedia article about Þrymr (Thrym, Thrymr) I saw some other familiar names (Jotun, Freya) that are also in the game - all elites.


Freya is a titan avatar. Jotun is... a titan construct of some sort. Thrym was the Thaddius clone I had in mind, yes.

#50 Hylo

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 01:45 PM

Crystalsong Forest seems to be unfinished though; you can see a bloodelf post there but not npcs. It would also seem a bit odd that so large an area would be totally without mobs or quests. I believe they opened unfinished Crystalsong Forest just because it was needed due to Dalaran being there.

Maybe they add a portal to emerald dream, maybe not (would be cool if they did!) They could leave it non-functional as they did with Dark Portal in vanilla. They could also make it so that you can enter a small restricted region of emerald dream for some quests without tying it too strongly to the next expansion.

#51 Liebestod

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 01:53 PM

Well, the terrain seems finished, just not populated. If they were gonna have the portal, there's no reason why it couldn't be in already, I think. Not saying that it couldn't happen..

If I could, I'd be bitching about it on the beta forums. Someone should, really. :P A 5th Emerald Dragon as a level 80 world boss would be cool as well.

#52 Starfire

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 06:36 PM

Wait what? Why do they need to re-use models? Leaving some models to be unique, especially when they were/are renown and powerful beings should be an asset, not something to be demolished. It saddens me already that Ragnaros, Nefarian, C'thun, Kel'Thuzad, Archimonde and such have had their models largely re-used.

But on the topic of Outlands races... As far as I can tell there were only a handful of "good" Arrakkoa, the vast majority (Hellfire Penninsula, Terokkar Forest - Auchindoun and Skettis) are not good. There's like 5-6 that are good.

Sporeggar are too inept to fight their own fights, much less be anything more than footstools in Northrend.

What happened to there only being 7-8 Gronn? Anyways, most of them seem to primitive to be in Northrend sort of something like being captured/cage (a la Arcatraz).

The Broken, especially now with Illidan dead, might be an option. But I suspect they have a lot of their own loose ends to tie up.

Ethereals have promise, they're almost like the new Goblins.

And even Spacegoats, they've just recently gotten to Azeroth, I hardly think they would have enough time to build up anything in Northrend. I mean, you don't really expect the Spacegoats to have a presence in Eastern Kingdoms or most of Kalmindor, did you?

I am not really sure what other sentient beings there are. And I do suspect we'll be seeing more ethereals.

#53 Zaniel

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:01 PM

Crystalsong Forest seems to be unfinished though; you can see a bloodelf post there but not npcs. It would also seem a bit odd that so large an area would be totally without mobs or quests. I believe they opened unfinished Crystalsong Forest just because it was needed due to Dalaran being there.

Maybe they add a portal to emerald dream, maybe not (would be cool if they did!) They could leave it non-functional as they did with Dark Portal in vanilla. They could also make it so that you can enter a small restricted region of emerald dream for some quests without tying it too strongly to the next expansion.


With regards to the Dream, I've been following the "phased" (and now the Dynamic World Change) developments very closely, because honestly that's sort of how the Dream is. It's our world, but different. Sometimes largely, sometimes subtlely... although by now I assume it's very overgrown. Still, I could see them implementing some sort of link between the two realms, like by going through a portal or doorway, but realistically just changing your "phased" state.

It's pretty neat to think about at least. :)

#54 Chicken

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:06 PM

There's at least one ethereal striking a deal between the Blue Dragonflight and the Ethereum in the Dragonblight. Presumably we'll see more of them in later Nexus instances, as the deal was apparently completed and a success.

#55 Liebestod

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:37 PM

Hey, if the Gnomes can have a base in Blade's Edge by the time TBC starts, then the Ethereals can have bases all over Northrend by the time WotLK begins. But I agree that they're pretty much the only plausible option, other than the Naaru. Maybe some Mok'Nathal..

As for models, it's not like Grobbulus and Thaddius are super-unique lore creatures who shouldn't be recycled (their official types, I believe, are "flesh giant" and "flesh titan" respectively).. I just think it adds some nice variety, mostly. Only model that I don't support seeing reused is C'Thun's, because there aren't many Old Gods and only Old Gods should have that model. Hell, they can even recycle Kil'Jaeden for all I care, just turn it into some generic uberdemon or maybe a bone Eredar or something like that.

#56 Playered

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:40 PM

Wait what? Why do they need to re-use models? Leaving some models to be unique, especially when they were/are renown and powerful beings should be an asset, not something to be demolished. It saddens me already that Ragnaros, Nefarian, C'thun, Kel'Thuzad, Archimonde and such have had their models largely re-used.


I'm concerned over how the Aspects are portrayed as they are very significant beings in the history of the Warcraft.
The newer blue dragonflight with the runes and such on their skins feels much better to me than what happened with the IDF and gives me hope that they will not resort to basic recoloring to achieve a different look.

That said; Malygos, Ysera & Nozdormu all show up in their Aspect forms and I'm really hoping they get a lot of attention to make them as special as they should be.
There are some -very- big dragon corpses in Dragonblight and I'm skeptical if any dragon would approach the size of an Aspect - I'm not sure if Malygos as he appears in the quest events matches the size of them...

#57 ayb

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:46 PM

Have they said whether they intend to change the models they're currently using for them?

#58 Liebestod

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 08:07 PM

I'm concerned over how the Aspects are portrayed as they are very significant beings in the history of the Warcraft.
The newer blue dragonflight with the runes and such on their skins feels much better to me than what happened with the IDF and gives me hope that they will not resort to basic recoloring to achieve a different look.

That said; Malygos, Ysera & Nozdormu all show up in their Aspect forms and I'm really hoping they get a lot of attention to make them as special as they should be.
There are some -very- big dragon corpses in Dragonblight and I'm skeptical if any dragon would approach the size of an Aspect - I'm not sure if Malygos as he appears in the quest events matches the size of them...


I'm sure Malygos will get his own model at some point. I'm not so sure about Ysera and Nozdormu, however, possibly they'd just receive variations on the Malygos model, and maybe they'd get their own if they become more central to the story.

Also, one of the quest chains in Dragonblight reveals that the really big dragon skeleton (Galakrond) is actually the super-protodragon from which the Aspects were made. It would be neat to see him revived somehow as a raid boss, but I suppose he's waaaay too big for that to feasibly happen.

#59 Switchblade

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:36 AM

After completing Grizzy hills I have to say i was impressed with the Worgen quest chain. Theres an escape from a village on horseback and its just absolutely fantastic.

#60 Dozer

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 04:31 AM

As for models, it's not like Grobbulus and Thaddius are super-unique lore creatures who shouldn't be recycled (their official types, I believe, are "flesh giant" and "flesh titan" respectively).. I just think it adds some nice variety, mostly. Only model that I don't support seeing reused is C'Thun's, because there aren't many Old Gods and only Old Gods should have that model. Hell, they can even recycle Kil'Jaeden for all I care, just turn it into some generic uberdemon or maybe a bone Eredar or something like that.


There's a C'thun-looking thing being summoned in Shadowmoon valley.

They never re-used Gluth, did they?




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