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EnhSim, DPS simulator


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#41 Pitbuller

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

Tukez do flametongue weapon give passive spell damage bonus? I s 96 spell piower at level right value?
Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

#42 tukez

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:08 PM

Tukez do flametongue weapon give passive spell damage bonus? I s 96 spell piower at level right value?


No it does not. I will fix this to the next version, meanwhile just put it manually. Btw, does the flametongue spellpower stack with 2 flametongues? Are there any other changes to flametongue in 3.0?

#43 Skiace

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:42 PM

In the new version (after the LB fix) I'm now finding that a slow offhand with WF is much more competitive with the fast FT. The inflated LB numbers must have favored the faster MW stacking of a fast offhand. I'm seeing WF with a slight 30dps edge over FT using a 1.4 speed OH, but they are tied using a 1.3 for FT.

I'm also still seeing Reverb still not worth giving up MW even with reduced LB damage. Best I've done thus far is ~2530dps in this version of the sim.

edit: Wowwiki says base mana should be 2678 for all 70 shaman regardless of race.

edit2: The best build I could come up with for this sim included 1 point in static shock and valued this at ~15-20dps. Hopefully Feral Spirit is worth more than this (it needs to be if it's going to be worth shit in PvE), thus the best build at 70 wouldn't bother with static shock.

#44 Sorry

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:45 PM

Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, trinkets to shard of contempt / Crusade Card, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 3061.70dps at 119.55mps

#45 Skiace

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:55 PM

Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 2991.58dps at 122.19mps

I think i was missing some buffs before, cause I'm able to reproduce your results now. I also tried changing the OH to 110dps and 1.4 speed, and this was a LOSS of 8dps. This suggests the kind of dependence on weapon speed that we've seen in the past for WF, and is clearly not what we'd like to see in the future.

Changeing to a slow offhand with WF was about a 2-3% dps loss, much closer than in the last version of the sim. This is encouraging, but considering the FT speed interaction I noted, I feel like FT really isn't working as intended right now. A 1.3 offhand improves MW dps by 30% over a 2.6 right now. That's a big boost.

edit: Also, if we're trying to compare specs based on the Bestdpsbuild.txt, lets not change any of the trinkets. I was able to get 2998dps with the build you linked without changing trinkets.

#46 tukez

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:05 PM

Am I doing this right?
I downloaded v0.7.6, I open enhsimgui.exe and load bestdpsbuild.
Then I change talents to this.
OH speed to 1.3, dps to 87, add 96 to spellpower for flametongue, trinkets to shard of contempt / Crusade Card, 10k hours and simulate.
Results in 3061.70dps at 119.55mps


Bet you didn't remember to take off the passive bonus of Berserker's Call.

#47 tukez

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:12 PM

Changeing to a slow offhand with WF was about a 2-3% dps loss, much closer than in the last version of the sim. This is encouraging, but considering the FT speed interaction I noted, I feel like FT really isn't working as intended right now. Either that, or MW needs to proc off of WF in order to make slow weapons competitive. A 1.3 offhand improves MW dps by 30% over a 2.6 right now. That's a big boost.


In the sim MW procs from WF too. It should not?

#48 Skiace

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:19 PM

In the sim MW procs from WF too. It should not?

Ah, sorry I missread your changelog (read SS-WF proc line as MW-WF). Someone in the Wrath thread mentioned that it doesn't proc off WF in the latest build, but WF is also broken so I'd presume that's unintended.

Considering it is procing off WF in the sim, then I'm even more suspect of the behavior of FT and fast weapons. An 87dps weapons should NEVER outperform a 110 dps weapon based on speed alone.

EDIT: To further illustrate the point, right now I'm seeing Alcor's Sunrazor within 0.5% of a new fast weapon out of Naxx 10: http://static.mmo-ch...10_loot_018.jpg

The 143dps @1.6 manages to beat the 45dps @1.3, but just barely. If the sim is accurately reflecting FT and MW behavior, we need to make some noise about it.

EDIT2: Also seeing that dual wielding Edge of Oppression is not as good as Slow/Fast, but it's better than Slow/Slow right now. If the sim is accurate, this is broken behavior in my opinion.

#49 Malan

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:22 PM

Maelstrom is just bugged or something in Beta, it hasn't proced off Windfury crits since it was implemented. I would leave the sim as is, my assumption is that its going to be fixed in the next shaman round.

#50 tukez

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 05:41 AM

The 143dps @1.6 manages to beat the 45dps @1.3, but just barely. If the sim is accurately reflecting FT and MW behavior, we need to make some noise about it.


People might want to print out a combatlog from the sim and see if they can find something fishy in there.

I'll double check couple of mechanics, especially flametongue. I think I'll also do some tests with lag. I think it would favor slower weapons, but it probably wouldn't do much about the problem, that crappy 1.3 dagger is better than a good 1.5 dagger.

#51 Pitbuller

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:05 AM

Off-hand weapon dps ep is allways been very small. Around 3.5ep with 2.6s and Wf. With 1.3s and Ft it's only 2.2ep. Now it's actual so small that if we see fast one-hand caster weapon we could use it and dps will go up. Caster weapon dps also scale in wrath. [Cudgel of Saronity Justice]


Edit: I think it's just oversight and gonna be fixed.
Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

#52 Skiace

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:14 AM

Off-hand weapon dps ep is allways been very small. Around 3.5ep with 2.6s and Wf. With 1.3s and Ft it's only 2.2ep. Now it's actual so small that if we see fast one-hand caster weapon we could use it and dps will go up. Caster weapon dps also scale in wrath. [Cudgel of Saronity Justice]

I thought caster weapons were all supposed to be Main-Hand only. Is this weapon an oversight or are many caster weapons in Wrath One-Hand?

#53 Pitbuller

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:22 AM

Another discovery:
I tested new naxx weapons and 1.8s caster weapon destroy 2.6s melee weapon in mainhand. Gap was over 150dps. Dps was same with douple flametongue or windfury/flametongue.

I also tested TBC weapons: and was pretty much par. Melee weapon win when calculted extra melee stats.

Spell damage potential is quite big now.


Edit: That's bug only lower ft/ft dps. But Wf/ft with caster weapon was same amount dps boost. So caster weapon still look like a viable choice.
Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

#54 tukez

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:27 AM

Another discovery:
I tested new naxx weapons and 1.8s caster weapon destroy 2.6s melee weapon in mainhand. Gap was over 150dps. Dps was same with douple flametongue or windfury/flametongue.

I also tested TBC weapons: and was pretty much par. Melee weapon win when calculted extra melee stats.

Spell damage potential is quite big now.


Be advised that I just discovered MH Flametongue bug which causes it to proc on OH attacks, not MH(good old copy&paste). So if you have ft/ft and faster weapon in off hand it will result in more DPS than it supposed to give.

#55 tukez

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 05:35 PM

0.7.7
-Stormstrike PPM statistic is now a accurate. It shows the PPM of casts.
-Fixed MH flametongue bug.
-Flametongue now gives 96 spellpower.
-Option to use searing totem approximation removed.

enhsim - Google Code


The reason I removed the Searing Totem approximation is, that it just wasn't accurate anymore. That is because of the overall increase in spell damage, after I made that approximation.

I tried different event systems in hope of making it faster, but seems like my old system is still faster than heaps etc. Maybe I'll try to make up something faster by modifying my system, because I am not satisfied with speed currently. On my computer it is about 2400000 times normal. Used to be a lot more...oh well, that happens when you add a bunch of new procs.

#56 Levva

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:49 AM

Sim looks great. One quick question. Any reason that Reverberation talent is not included as an option to test its effects?

#57 Pitbuller

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 12:03 PM

Sim looks great. One quick question. Any reason that Reverberation talent is not included as an option to test its effects?


From the config file:

average_shocks_per_minute	 10.0	//for example, put to 10.0 to have shock cooldown of 6 seconds

You can try bit more different rotations with this setting.
Example Fs, SS, LvB was suggested before anyone tested it with sim. It's very bad low dps rotion but without simulator it looked good and easy rotation. If there was just Reverberation talent to calculate shock cooldown you couldn't set this rotation for sim.

Reverberation is about 0.5% dps per talent point.




Mana usage and how we can handle it:

With this build at 70lvl base rotation mana usage is around 13k. Totem droppin cost 39% of base mana this is 1044mana. We can expect 6k buffed mana pool at least.(Elixir of Major Agility + Elixir of Draenic Wisdom). If we expected get free mana bar every time shamanist rage is up this leave only (105/120 * 14000) - 6000 =~ 6000 mana negative. Jow is 4% of total mana, 100% proc and 4s Cd. If we get proc least one time per 5s this give us 5040mana. Now we are at negative 1000 mana. Mana spring give us 50mp5 * 21 = 1050mana. We can sustain basic rotation + totems infinite even without replenish effect or other outside mana sources.


Edit: Levva it's work just like you want. Just use reverse math.
0/5 = 120 / (6.0 + lag)
1/5 = 120 / (5.8 + lag)
2/5 = 120 / (5.6 + lag)
3/5 = 120 / (5.4 + lag)
4/5 = 120 / (5.2 + lag)
5/5 = 120 / (5.0 + lag)

Shock per minute don't actual tell how many shock sim use per minute. It's tell to sim what is max number per minute what is same as shock cd. If shock priority is set low then sim use far less shock than you have actual inputted.

Example with this config;
...
average_shocks_per_minute       10.00
...
stormstrike_cooldown            9.00
...
rotation_priority1              mw_lb
rotation_priority2              ss
rotation_priority3              fs
rotation_priority4              es
rotation_priority5              ls

Sim used only 9.9741 shock per minute not 10.
Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

#58 Malan

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 12:07 PM

So the new GUI front end is windows only? :(

#59 Levva

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 12:19 PM

From the config file:

average_shocks_per_minute	 10.0	//for example, put to 10.0 to have shock cooldown of 6 seconds

You can try bit more different rotations with this setting.
Example Fs, SS, LvB was suggested before anyone tested it with sim. It's very bad low dps rotion but without simulator it looked good and easy rotation. If there was just Reverberation talent to calculate shock cooldown you couldn't set this rotation for sim.

Reverberation is about 0.5% dps per talent point.


Yes but it was also said that you change "average_shocks_per_minute" to reflect a deal of reality on how many shocks you can realistically get with latency, reaction times etc. ie: the AVERAGE not the IDEAL shocks per minute. Surely that is independent of the duration of the shock cooldown. I would have thought that the sim could easily include when a shock was off cooldown. At present without knowing the Reverberation value it cannot know the CD time period thus cannot simulate its impact.

I would think that it would make the sim easier to use to include a 5 pt Reverberation drop down and a warning if the "average_shocks_per_minute" was impossible given Reverberation. eg: 10.1 shocks per minute is impossible with 0/5 Reverberation. The max value with 5/5 Reverberation would be 12.0 shocks per minute.

My thought is that aside from any DPS increase it MIGHT be that offsetting the shock CD by 0.2 sec or 0.4 sec etc may open up extra GCDs or stagger timings sufficiently to prove useful. The only real way to tell is via a sim. If the sim doesn't support that you cannot tell.

#60 tukez

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 12:58 PM

Yes but it was also said that you change "average_shocks_per_minute" to reflect a deal of reality on how many shocks you can realistically get with latency, reaction times etc. ie: the AVERAGE not the IDEAL shocks per minute.

...


Maybe I should remove the average_shocks_per_minute and add shock_cooldown. If I implement lag in the sim I can remove the shock_cooldown entirely and add Reverberation. What do you think?

Meanwhile, just to clarify: average_shocks_per_minute sets the shock cooldown. As Pitbuller said, it does not mean that shock is used as soon as the cooldown is ready.




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