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RaidComp – online raid calculator


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#41 puupi

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:01 PM

Buffs: Spell power
Demonic Pact = 10% spellPOWER
Flametongue Totem = 144 spellDAMAGE and HEALING
Totem of Wrath = 280 spellDAMAGE, 3% crit to targets affected by the totem
Divine Spirit = 80 spellPOWER


SO the question is: do these buffs stack? yesnomby? They are totally different from one another so they should be stackable and shown as independent buffs in RaidComp.
Otherwise, good job doing this thingy, very useful :)

EDIT: Oh and forgot couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet;
Frost DK gives +5% frost damage with their rune weapon enchant and 80 All Resistances for raid.
Resto Shaman gives Mana Tide. Druids give Combat Ress and Innervate. Holy priests give Guardian Spirit. Unholy DK gives Anti-Magic Zone. Some paladins can give Divine Guardian. All of those cooldown abilities are very important buffs for a raid!

You should also check how many paladins are in the raid so you can count how many blessings there are altogether. Imp. TSA(12% AP, glyphed) > UR/Blood DK AP buff(10%). DK's can spec so that they give AP buff, 20% melee haste AND 80 all resistances (aka buffspec). Unholy DK's Ebon Plaguebringer > CoE > EaM. Why? Because CoE and EaM can be casted easily on one target only. Ebon Plaguebringer can be used like this on AoE situations: Plague Strike on one mob(-> EP), Pestilence -> all surrounding mobs have Ebon Plaguebringer in them. So basically Unholy DK provides 13% more AoE damage for raid. But for a single target it's all the same.

#42 Selmarix

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:05 PM

Buffs: Spell power
Demonic Pact = 10% spellPOWER
Flametongue Totem = 144 spellDAMAGE and HEALING
Totem of Wrath = 280 spellDAMAGE, 3% crit to targets affected by the totem
Divine Spirit = 80 spellPOWER


SO the question is: do these buffs stack? yesnomby? They are totally different from one another so they should be stackable and shown as independent buffs in RaidComp.

They do not stack. Totem of Wrath's crit part is separate though and considered another category.

#43 puupi

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:19 PM

So if they don't stack. What is their priority order? ToW > DP > FT > DS? You could always speculate that at some point in WotLK people might have over 2800 spellpower before these buffs, then DP would be superior compared to ToW.

And on the other hand, ToW is 280 spellDAMAGE, not power, so shouldn't FT be overall better then because it buffs the raid for 144 spelldmg and healing = 288 total buffed stats for raid.............
Or are they working like this: you can have both FT and ToW and get both of the buffs showed up in your buffbar, but in the end you get 280 spelldamage and 144 healing. But I know this is not the case, for example if you have STR totem in the ground and DK uses HoW, the buff just doesnt appear, or the other way around. If the buff is already available, the new buff won't be available at all. What happens with these spell buffs then? If you have both DP and ToW, would casters below 2800 spelldmg get 280 spelldmg from ToW - and casters above 2800 get the 10% from DP? Or wut? I'm a bit lost x_X
/discuss

:)

#44 PsiVen

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 12:47 AM

Personally I don't plan on ever going without BoK in my spec, but the debate is irrelevant. If you're the only paladin in the group, you'd better go respec Kings if you don't have it. It's safe to check it off if a single paladin is there, but keep the effects of BoM/BoW/BoSanct at ~. With two paladins, check off BoM/BoW/BoK and ~ Sanct (with a Prot) since only the tanks would be getting it, and check off Sanct with 3 paladins as long as one of them is Prot.

Heart of the Crusader as ~ for Holy. I think it'll be fairly common to pick up.

#45 uliko

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:50 AM

So if they don't stack. What is their priority order? ToW > DP > FT > DS? You could always speculate that at some point in WotLK people might have over 2800 spellpower before these buffs, then DP would be superior compared to ToW.

And on the other hand, ToW is 280 spellDAMAGE, not power, so shouldn't FT be overall better then because it buffs the raid for 144 spelldmg and healing = 288 total buffed stats for raid.............
Or are they working like this: you can have both FT and ToW and get both of the buffs showed up in your buffbar, but in the end you get 280 spelldamage and 144 healing. But I know this is not the case, for example if you have STR totem in the ground and DK uses HoW, the buff just doesnt appear, or the other way around. If the buff is already available, the new buff won't be available at all. What happens with these spell buffs then? If you have both DP and ToW, would casters below 2800 spelldmg get 280 spelldmg from ToW - and casters above 2800 get the 10% from DP? Or wut? I'm a bit lost x_X
/discuss

:)

They are all just spellpower, the tooltip is just old. Totem of Wrath - Spell - World of Warcraft
As for DP vs ToW while getting to 2800 spellpower takes a while one would assume DP would override ToW while it's up if the warlock has over 2800 spellpower.

#46 Sharlos

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:14 AM

If you have a warrior in the raid you don't need to worry about BoM because Battleshout doesn't stack. 2 Paladins should get you wis/kings no matter what, every paladin can spec for it, all loose out on something. Its only once you include Sanctuary that things get slightly complicated. All prot paladins will have sanctuary, so in order to get sanctuary your non-prot paladins will have to spec for kings because your tanks will want both.

#47 Rapparee

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 08:47 AM

I can understand you not including Glyphs yet, but in case you're writing it in already.

Horn of Winter - DK (no talent to improve it, the glyph lowers the runic power cost)

SoE - Shaman (talent to improve it, you include this already. Also a glyph that gives it 1% more melee/ranged critical strike, further increasing the gap between the two) Also, as a resto shaman I'll be taking the talents and perhaps the glyph if it turns out our hunters aren't able to keep in melee range. 30yards far too often turns out to be rather restrictive.

#48 Kabale

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:49 AM

I'd like to echo the request to be able to modify this to suit your guild's members and their specs. This would make raid leaders' life much easier. So rather than just having a list of the different specs, a pool of all said guild's raiders and their mainspecs (and possibly an option to add offspecs if they have the gear+experience for it). Perhaps also an option to export to text. Just more customization really.

Great work anyway, looking forward to using this tool.

#49 bunnie

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 03:51 PM

This tool has been great for planning recruitment for LK raiding. But of course once you cover all the buffs you need, you have dps spots left over. I'm having trouble sifting through all the dps threads and figuring out dps rankings. I have looked at dedmonwakeen's SimultationCraft but at this time it only covers the casters. In TBC we limited melee (2 rogues, 1 enh shaman, 1 dps warrior and 1 ret pally) but it seems LK is a lot more melee friendly. So basically I'm wondering how to best optimize my raid after all the buffs are covered. Thanks for the help.

#50 Copernicus

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:17 PM

This tool has been great for planning recruitment for LK raiding. But of course once you cover all the buffs you need, you have dps spots left over. I'm having trouble sifting through all the dps threads and figuring out dps rankings. I have looked at dedmonwakeen's SimultationCraft but at this time it only covers the casters. In TBC we limited melee (2 rogues, 1 enh shaman, 1 dps warrior and 1 ret pally) but it seems LK is a lot more melee friendly. So basically I'm wondering how to best optimize my raid after all the buffs are covered. Thanks for the help.

If you have to optimize your raid's DPS after covering the buffs/debuffs, then Blizzard has done something wrong.

#51 bunnie

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:23 PM

It isn't about 'having' to optimize. It is about wanting to know what extra classes to recruit to fill out a roster. I know some classes are really struggling right now and some are doing very well, but I don't know a lot of the middle ones and where they stand.

#52 Avitus

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 06:55 PM

Very nice work, one suggestion I have:

The replenishment counter notwithstanding, I would suggest a two stage coloring of how Replenishment is implemented (similar to how other buffs are handled).

-Green: "No. of mana users in raid" < "10 * No. of Replenishment providers"
-Yellow: "No. of mana users in raid" > "10 * No. of Replenishment providers"


Also things that have been mentioned before:

-Judgement of Light, which is becoming immensely powerful/useful.
-Blessing of Wisdom: Imp for Holy, non-imp for Prot/Ret

#53 Duilliath

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:25 PM

This tool has been great for planning recruitment for LK raiding. But of course once you cover all the buffs you need, you have dps spots left over. I'm having trouble sifting through all the dps threads and figuring out dps rankings. I have looked at dedmonwakeen's SimultationCraft but at this time it only covers the casters. In TBC we limited melee (2 rogues, 1 enh shaman, 1 dps warrior and 1 ret pally) but it seems LK is a lot more melee friendly. So basically I'm wondering how to best optimize my raid after all the buffs are covered. Thanks for the help.


If Blizzard does their job well and arrives at their stated intent, you'd best optimise the raid by bringing the 'best* players'. Irrespective of their class.

(*ie: People that don't die in fire, people that have 100% attendance, people that always flask/pot up etc - not merely the highest DPS class as there should not be one.)
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#54 RootBreaker

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:53 PM

Very nice work, one suggestion I have:

The replenishment counter notwithstanding, I would suggest a two stage coloring of how Replenishment is implemented (similar to how other buffs are handled).

-Green: "No. of mana users in raid" < "10 * No. of Replenishment providers"
-Yellow: "No. of mana users in raid" > "10 * No. of Replenishment providers"


Also things that have been mentioned before:

-Judgement of Light, which is becoming immensely powerful/useful.
-Blessing of Wisdom: Imp for Holy, non-imp for Prot/Ret

Given that replenishment is only given to the 10 players with the lowest mana, having more than one replenishment provider doesn't actually help right now.

#55 Avitus

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 08:14 PM

Lowest mana is not a constant.

#56 Khassandra

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 08:25 PM

Ferocious Inspiration is now raid-wide as of today. No word yet on what the percentage is or whether it will stack.

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Ferocious Inspiration Raidwide?
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#57 Prinsesa

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 11:51 PM

It isn't about 'having' to optimize. It is about wanting to know what extra classes to recruit to fill out a roster. I know some classes are really struggling right now and some are doing very well, but I don't know a lot of the middle ones and where they stand.


I think you're trying to do go about this the wrong way. Instead of looking at the tool as something to tell you what to fill those spots with, use the tool to represent getting all your spots filled with whatever characters your guildies want to play, then from there establishing who should be casting which buffs:

"Hey Retpaladinguy, go ahead and skip buffing BOM, since Armswarriordude has Commanding Presence"
"Jackthewarlock, I need you to bring out your Imp though, since you did spec for a talented Blood Pact"
"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

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#58 Nopher

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:48 AM

Changes made:
- Fixed the bug with Arcane Mages and Spell Crit Debuff flagging.
- Hovering over the different buff and debuff categories highlights the specs that effects the category and wise-versa.
- Made the color on inactive categories slightly brighter to get a bit more contrast with the background (especially when highlighted).
- Added the Core Hound ability Lava Breath to the Cast Speed Slow category.
- BM and SV Hunters now have Aimed Shot as a "maybe".
- Demonic Pact comes from a pet.
- Judgement of Light added under the category Health Restore.
- Made Improved Faerie Fire a "maybe" for Balance Druids.
- Blessing of Wisdom added under the category Mana Regen (Blessing).
- Amplify Magic and Dampen Magic (and their corresponding categories) removed.
- Added Mana Tide, Rebirth and Soul Stone counts.
- Improved Devotion Aura is now only provided by Protection Paladins.
- Removed the weak tag from Horn of Winter for consistency. (Minor differences shouldn't be tagged weak, especially when Strength of Earth Totem is already flagged as improvable.)
- Split the count of raid composition roles to a separate box with the heading Setup.
- Grace tagged as weak.
- Added count for specs that can remove curses, diseases, magic effects and poisons.
- Added Improved Water Elemental under the category Mana Regen (Pet).
- Added Mana Spring Totem under the category Mana Regen (Totem).
- Replenishment count is now done in the category name and the amount of providers needed is based upon the number of mana users in the raid.
- Bloodlust / Heroism added to the buff list together with the count. With a 10 min cooldown and the 5 min Sated debuff two Shamans is only needed.

A lot of changes based on feedback. I’m especially interested in feedback on the new highlighting features. I feel that it’s a decent compromise between showing too little and causing annoyance for the user. I tried out what some of you asked for, adding additional tooltips on the specs or even inside the groups and it’s too much really, especially for people who don’t need the info.

You might consider making the [w] modifier (spell is weaker than others in the category) depend on the spec providing the buff rather than the buff itself.

Perhaps a good idea but won’t that lead to inconsistencies which may be worse than the value it adds? I added an undocumented change to this release of RC as an example, Curse of the Elements, which depending on if an Affliction Warlock is in the raid shows as weak or not. Wouldn’t a better approach be to mark categories that are only enabled by weak abilities as yellow or in another color? Or should both be done?

Although it looks completely messed up in IE6 (not sure about later versions).

Sorry, like I said in my first post I will never support IE6. I understand that it sucks for some of you trapped at work or whatnot with no choice. The browser is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, attack surface exposed by regular users. Keeping it updated is really important for your security. RC works just fine in the latest version of IE7 and IE8 (although the JavaScript performance is a joke). :eng101:

I think it woudl be cool to go one step further and somehow indicate which of those are exclusively provided by that class given the current raid makeup (ie what would be lost if that player was removed from the raid).

I’m skeptical about going into that detail since in every case except the simplest one it gets really messy. Imagine the chain effects with blessings, totems, Warlock pets and Warrior shouts. You’d want the feature to be completely accurate and I don’t think I can do that with the level of uncertainty that’s part of the tool.

It would be great to be able to use this as a planning tool in terms of signups for raid nights as well. To support this, I suggest the ability to change the class spec to the players name once it is placed into a group slot. This way I could post a link to it in guildchat or on our guild forums and show everyone what the raidcomp is going to look like that night.

This is a very interesting suggestion on how to tackle the fact that the armory is inherently inaccurate at times. When clicking on a link to enable this feature one could simply ask for guild name, realm and region. After that RC could pull the guild list of names (only one query so Bibi won’t hate me, or do this client-side in JavaScript) and provide simple name-completion based on the class of the spec you’re changing name on.

( "conceptual" enhancements to RC.)

Will never happen with RC, sounds like a completely different tool to me (someone create it, sounds cool).

On the subject of adding additional abilities and categories
While it’s important that RC is accurate it’s also important to avoid bloating the tool with every minuscule ability in WoW. The main change that made me create RC was the http://blue.mmo-cham...-stacking.html'>introduction of buff and debuff categories, this is the main thing people will want to wrap their heads around come WotLK. Most classes still bring the same abilities as before. If RC can help you create a raid that’s 90% as efficient as the most optimized raid there is from a buff and debuff standpoint that’s good enough. The last 10% is what we here on EJ among other things spend countless hours theorycrafting about, most people couldn’t care less about it. In TBC the devil was in the details when it came to raid performance, in WotLK that’s supposedly much less the case.

I don’t mind adding minor abilities (like Grace) if they’re already in a specific category with at least one other ability. I also feel that mana regeneration abilities should be an exception, seeing as how Blizzard seems to want to make mana management a big deal for casters. Examples of what I consider to be abilities not important enough to be in RC are Stoneskin Totem, LotP (healing part), Healing Stream Totem, Blood Aura (healing part), Amplify Magic, Dampen Magic, Disarm abilities, Interrupts (a lot of specs have them) and Devotion Aura (armor part).

In essence I want to be careful when adding new categories but for every category in RC we should list every ability that goes into that category.

Appreciate all the feedback and ideas. :)

#59 Bullshot

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:47 AM

Right now only Marksmanship Hunters are listed as having Aimed Shot, but I've never seen a Hunter without it, regardless of spec. It should at least be a maybe for BM and SV Hunters.


Right now Aimed Shot is needed in order to get the Mortal Shots talent. However in 3.0, Mortal Shots isn't linked to Aimed Shot anymore and hunters are finding it hard to justify getting Aimed Shot in a PvE build. Granted that they made it instant cast and it no longer resets your Auto Shot, but as it stands right now Aimed Shot appears to be on the out in any PvE build come 3.0.

#60 Fearlezz

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:18 PM

Any thoughts about adding abilities such as "threat missdirection" (hunter, rogue) and "threat reduction" (paladin, warrior)?




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