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Mage: Simple Questions/Simple Answers


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#2821 Nastral

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 10:58 PM

Hi Mage mates,

I'm searching for a long time if there is a haste cap in FB spec, i heard before 4.0 that a soft cap existed around 850 haste rating but I couldn't find a clear post about it.

Does this soft cap still exist in 4.0.1 ? How can i calculate this haste cap , does it depend of my gear ?

#2822 Jessamy

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 01:47 AM

How can i calculate this haste cap?

The lowest your global cooldown can go is 1.0 seconds. So any haste that makes your spells faster than that is wasted. This affects instant cast spells (like hot steak pyro) and spells with a 1.5 base cast time. This is a "soft" cap because haste after this point is still useful for your other spells.

After the 4.0.1 patch, mages get 3% talented haste, and 5% haste from raid buffs. These effects are multiplicative, so you need 1.5 / (1.05 * 1.03) = 1.387 haste to hit the soft cap. 38.7 * 32.79 = 1269 haste rating is your soft cap.

If you include the 10% haste you can sometimes get from Pyromaniac, that's 1.5 / (1.05 * 1.03 * 1.10) = 1.261 to hit the soft cap. 26.1 * 32.79 = 856 haste rating, which might be the number you were thinking of.

#2823 Juravieal

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:06 AM

Ive got a quick question on arcane tactics. I just went back arcane for the first time since the patch, and for some reason it doesnt show that I myself have the arc tactics buff. It does show on my party members however. Has things been changed so that you dont see your own supplied auras now? I even tried turning buff mods off and using the blizzard buff bar.

#2824 Elge

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:29 PM

Ive got a quick question on arcane tactics. I just went back arcane for the first time since the patch, and for some reason it doesnt show that I myself have the arc tactics buff. It does show on my party members however.


I noticed the same thing on my rogue alt with Honor Among Thieves (5% crit aura). It does not show up in my buff frames, but the moment I put a talent point in it I see a 5% increase in crit chance on the character sheet. I'm sure it's the same effect.
I wonder, since the buff does not show up, does it stack with similar auras? I can't test that right now, but I'll try later.

#2825 Draginclaw

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:22 PM

Your own raid buffs don't show on yourself, only others. No, they do not stack.

The 850 haste was a target for mages leveling up (pre-25-heroic gear). At around 850-900 haste it would start switching with crit on their stat values/weight. So at that point you would use a sim or rawr to see what worked best.

#2826 Skem

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 08:50 PM

Im trying to validate my tool tips- since now they include spellpower etc (and Im updating my DPS model)

Damage from tooltip: 1442 I have validated this with a target dummy~ it took ages to do it with out something procing!

Drivers
Spellpower: 3339
Spell Co-eff: 1.0765 (0.2153 per wave) as per http://elitistjerks...._mage_resources
Base Damage: 305 Arcane Missiles - Spell - World of Warcraft
Mastery: 12% (for simplicity)
Arcane Tactics: 3% (talent)

Math
Min Dmg: 305
SP: +719
Sub total: 1,024

Mastery: +123
Arcant Tac: +31
Buffs: +154

Total: 1,178

Variane to tooltip: 264


So long story short- have I missed something or has the base/spell co changed?

thanks

#2827 Roywyn

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 09:26 PM

The base damage and scaling has been changed back and forth a lot recently. So, the values listed on the Cataclysm front page are not up to date any more. The following link contains last week's values on beta, which are not the values on live either, mind you. They also don't add up to your values either, sadly.

Values of Nov 8th on beta: World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta - (English) Forums -> Attack/Spell Power Coefficients
Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks....p2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.c...ki/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks....0-post3191.html

And doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does since 3.1.

#2828 Skem

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:52 PM

Thanks :)

They have however changed it again.. its now 1379- but thats a different issue ;-)

I while I was building there comes up few order of precendence issues.

Base Damage
+ Spell Power (and spell power mods)
Base Total

Buff/Debuff Effects
Arcane Tactic's
Mastery
etc
Total Modifiers

Critical Strike

So this works out as Base Total x Total Modifier x Critical.

Does this make sense? (don't get me started on the pain that is haste... lol- it keeps me busy)

#2829 ethix

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:32 AM

How does the ignite bug work exactly? The new Flashburn mastery for fire tells me that knowing how to avoid ignite munching will be extremely important for dps.

Edit: From browsing some of the Fire for 4.01 thread, it seems like this is still up in there air. Is there a 4 second period where all crits are ignored? Or is it some sort of duration based on pyroblasts or how hard you crit?

#2830 Enthorn

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:35 AM

You cannot avoid ignite munching. My explanation of ignite munching is buried, but you can read the post here.

Ignite loss happens in two ways...

The first is when an ignite DoT is supposed to tick and a spell crits. Occasionally, the ignite damage that was supposed to tick is completely disgarded and the next ignite tick only includes the ignite damage from the spell that just crit. Ignite loss here can be significantly high if the ignite discarded was rolling (particularly on a fight where rolling ignites can accrue to significant amounts).

The second is when two spells simultaneously crit. This happens far more often than the previous example but also is a more static amount of ignite damage lost, because the ignite damage lost can never excede the ignite damage of a single spell. The way this works is that when two spells land and crit at the same time, the first one that lands and crits has its ignite damage completely discarded (not calculated) because it is overwritten by the next spell that lands. Most often this happened to players using Fireball -> Fire Blast pre-wrath. Now it happens with Hot Streak Pyroblast and Fireball, since they are chained. Contrary to popular belief, Glyph of Living Bomb does not increase the amount of ignite loss.



#2831 LoTekk

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:50 PM

Now with the glyphs fixed -- did anybody already come up with some numbers on the four prime glyphe choices for a fire spec?
  • (This should say 'Glyph of Pyroblast' -- probably a caching issue?)

'Glyph of Fireball' seems pretty obvious to me, but I'm not entirely sure which one of the other three I should omit --- I'd really appreciate some number crunching.

#2832 Wizeowel

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:17 PM

'Glyph of Fireball' seems pretty obvious to me, but I'm not entirely sure which one of the other three I should omit --- I'd really appreciate some number crunching.


Vontre did the calculations and you can see in Vontre's Magegraf that Molten armor is the best glyph. The other three give much the same damage, depending on the detail of your spec, but it's generally assumed that pyroblast > fireball > living bomb.

#2833 Naqaj

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:27 AM

Does the Firepower talent also affect Frostfire Orb? Both the damage part as well as the added explosion?

#2834 lmaoskates

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:24 AM

pyroblast > fireball > living bomb.


Sorry, but do you have any statistical evidence for this? Because pyroblast > fireball seems very weird to me, as you cast many more fireballs than pyroblasts, also the fireball glyph will let you proc HS more often.

#2835 Wizeowel

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:53 AM

Sorry, but do you have any statistical evidence for this?


I don't have statistical evidence because that would require gathering 1000s of combatlogs of mages with several combinations of glyph choices. But as I linked in my post, Vontre's Magegraf has modeled all the glyphs and calculates pyroblast higher. You have to make your own decision whether you trust Vontre, although he's been providing solid theorycrafting tools for years now.

#2836 Cartical

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:40 PM

I do apologise for what I hope isn't a stupid post. I just realised I am not 100% certain on the workings of FFB. In the following talent, Fire Power Rank 3, Increases the damage of your Fire spells by 3% and gives your Flame Orb a 100% chance to explode for 1134 to 1336 damage at the end of its duration it states we get a 3% bonus to our fire spells. I assume this still affects FFB even though I'm a frost mage. But does it STACK with Frost Specialisation?

The Frost specialisation says increases damage of Frost spells by 25% (which must affect FFB) and then the talent says increases fire spell damage by 3% - does that make 28% overall increased damage for FFB casts? (and for Frostfire Orb too) Or is FFB always counted as EITHER a Frost or a Fire spell and only benefit from one or the other?

#2837 andastra

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:49 PM

I don't have statistical evidence because that would require gathering 1000s of combatlogs of mages with several combinations of glyph choices. But as I linked in my post, Vontre's Magegraf has modeled all the glyphs and calculates pyroblast higher. You have to make your own decision whether you trust Vontre, although he's been providing solid theorycrafting tools for years now.



It confused me at first as well since I'm used to the old rotation. With mana problems, however, we're going to be casting scorch more often and fireball less often. When I last looked at Vontre's Magegraf, the fire break down had us casting almost as many pyroblasts as fireballs.

#2838 Moonfaxx

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 12:17 PM

The new technique Fire mages employ is Scorch Weaving, whilst using Molten Armor, in conjunction with the Improved Scorch talent. Scorch is free to cast, and cast frequently in rotation alongside Fireball. Think of Fireball as a high damage, yet unsustainable nuke. Scorch is the lower damage, yet infinetely sustainable nuke. If you get the balance right - you'll make your mana last a long time and avoid going OOM - and still be able to deliver competitve DPS. If you get the balance wrong, by casting too many Fireballs, you'll go OOM and need to cast excessive Scorches afterwards while you regain mana, reducing DPS.


My apologies if this has been addressed previously. My question is with regards to the need for weaving Scorch in between Fireball casts. As I understand it, a fire mage has become like a Wrath of the Lich King-era arcane mage in that they should be nearing zero mana at the end of the fight (for optimal DPS).

With that in mind, it seems to me that the only need for casting Scorch prior to going OOM is during movement. During stand-still moments, why not chain-cast Fireball until OOM, then Scorch as necessary to rebuild mana? This ensures that the mage is nearly OOM by the fight's end (and thus, near optimal DPS given that they have cast the maximum Fireballs that their mana could sustain).

#2839 Naqaj

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 01:05 PM

As a Fire mage, you'll want to keep your Mana at a level so that you can keep casting Fireball during the final 35% of the the fight. If you burn down to zero at the wrong time, you'll miss quite some damage during the execute phase.

Generally speaking, you'll want to avoid having to use Scorch during phases where you have special buffs or when the boss is weakened. That's easier to achieve if you don't completely drain your Mana.




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