Jump to content


Photo

Priest: Simple Questions/Simple Answers


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2077 replies to this topic

#1 Boethius

Boethius

    THE DON

  • ♦ Administrators
  • 4,778 posts

Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:24 AM

Welcome to the Priest Simple Questions thread. This thread is for all your simple questions which you expect to have simple answers and thus do not require their own thread.

Note that all forum rules still apply: we said simple questions, not stupid questions (which have no place on these forums). You're still expected to make a reasonable effort to find the answer yourself by searching and reading the threads and making use of spreadsheets and any other tools that may be available. If, however, you're fairly confident that your question is not easily answered with available information, but don't think it will generate sufficient discussion to require it's own thread, this is the place to ask.

#2 Snowy

Snowy

    Mitt Romney?

  • Moderators
  • 10,255 posts

Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:35 AM

Combat Ratings at level 80:

1% crit = 45.9 critical strike rating
1% hit = 26.23 hit rating
1% haste = 32.79 haste rating

1% crit = 166.67 intellect

For shadow priests with 3/3 Shadow Focus and 3/3 Misery, you need 11% hit, or 289 hit rating to be hit capped at level 80.

#3 constantius

constantius

    Soda Popinski

  • Members
  • 3,749 posts

Posted 14 November 2008 - 12:16 PM

Regen coefficient @ 80:

5 * 0.005575 * sqrt{Int} * Spirit = OO5SR regen


Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

#4 Astmathic

Astmathic

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 345 posts

Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:09 PM

For shadow priests with 3/3 Shadow Focus, you need 11% hit, or 289 hit rating to be hit capped at level 80.


That also requires you to have full points in Misery. Might be a bit unnecessary to say this since Misery is a required talent regardless of PvP/PvE specc. At least in my own humble opinion :)

#5 javelin

javelin

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 98 posts

Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:21 PM

It's been a while since I played, and I understand a number of mechanics have changed, most specifically regarding crits on a couple of the Shadow Priest spells (most specifically Mind Flay). So, I've got a couple of questions:

Is Mind Flay still a binary spell (hit or miss, with no chance of having a partial resist on cast), or is it a partial resist channeled spell like AM now?

With the changes to crit being applied to some more of our spells, I'm having to rethink my stat priority (previous to this news, it was spell power, hit, int/haste), and was wondering what the new 'standard' itemization is for maximum efficiency in PvE. I understand somebody crunched the numbers and determined that crit is now more valuable to us than haste is, but I'm trying to figure out stat prioritization.
I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should chellenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.--Mark Twain

#6 Ford

Ford

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 15 November 2008 - 11:58 PM

Does Twin Disciplines effect Holy Fire, Mind Blast, Smite, Mana Burn, Greater Heal, and Flash Heal? I read on wowhead that it also effects DOT/HOTs like SW:P, DP, and Renew; is that true?

#7 Starfire

Starfire

    Blackfire too!

  • Members
  • 3,120 posts

Posted 16 November 2008 - 02:13 AM

Well, it definitely affects SW:P, DP, Renew, PW:S. There was debate as to whether it affected SoL FH, but I don't think anyone bothered to test for a conclusion.

Old Twin Discipline's did affect those spells you listed, but I don't see why the new one would affect them unless it was a bug. It says instant cast spells. Not all spells or dots/hots (it just happens our only HoT and two of our DoTs are instant cast).

Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.


#8 Isin

Isin

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:07 PM

Can anyone recommend a method for aoe grinding with Mind Sear? Is it even possible? I was hoping to put VT and SW:P on a group of maybe 4 or 5 mobs and then mind sear them down. I would use DP whenever it was up as well. Does Shadow's Reach increase the radius of Mind Sear?

#9 chrisb3

chrisb3

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 17 November 2008 - 03:12 AM

There has always been alot of misinformation about fade. I would like to get this cleared up once and for all.

While it clears all of the threat you have on the mob for the duration, what happens to any new threat you generate while fade is active?

I assume you get the full amount of new threat judging by what happens when you use fade+pet.
Dps(aggro on you)->shadowfiend(aggro on you)->fade(aggro on shadowfeind)->dps during fade(aggro on you very quickly).

However one of my priests told me to fade before using mind sear to get less threat from it.
So is new threat created during fade modified in any way?

#10 dragondeath46

dragondeath46

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:43 PM

There has always been alot of misinformation about fade. I would like to get this cleared up once and for all.

While it clears all of the threat you have on the mob for the duration, what happens to any new threat you generate while fade is active?

I assume you get the full amount of new threat judging by what happens when you use fade+pet.
Dps(aggro on you)->shadowfiend(aggro on you)->fade(aggro on shadowfeind)->dps during fade(aggro on you very quickly).

However one of my priests told me to fade before using mind sear to get less threat from it.
So is new threat created during fade modified in any way?


This is how it works, as far as I understand:

Apply Aura: Mod Total Threat (Fade)
Value: -90000000


Therefore, say you have 10,000 threat on a mob. You cast Fade, and your threat is now -89990000. If you were to DPS some more, and general another 10,000 threat in the next 9 seconds, before Fade wears off you would have -89980000 threat, and as soon as Fade wears off, you threat would be 20,000.

I'm assuming the value on wowhead is correct, but this seems to line up with what I have heard from beta testers that were able to use Mind Sear actively in raids.

I hope my post count is not an issue with the validity of my statement. I am a long time reader and first time poster, and I hope to be able to contribute to this community more over the coming months!

#11 Roywyn

Roywyn

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,398 posts

Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:54 PM

1) Does Crypt Fever increase the damage of Devouring Plague by 30%?

2) Does Pestilence spread Devouring Plague to additional targets?

I know that both should be true according to the tooltips, but can anyone confirm that this is actually the case in-game?

The abilities have changed a lot in beta and they didn't work together for a while, hence my request for a confirmation.


I'd also like to add that Mirror Image (the mage version of Fade) works exactly like described above.
You can do everything you want for 10 seconds, but then all your threat from before and during Fade comes back.
Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks....p2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.c...ki/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks....0-post3191.html

And doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does since 3.1.

#12 toth

toth

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 17 November 2008 - 11:30 PM

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.


Roywyn, that line in your signature made me realize the Timbal's Focusing Crystal (and other similar procs) probably no longer function with Mind Flay since its mechanics have changed to mimic Arcane Missles. Can anyone confirm?

#13 Guest_Akhtal_*

Guest_Akhtal_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:25 AM

I ran an instance with a DK tonight and I can confirm both abilities work with Devouring Plague (and it's pretty awesome tabbing to dot the second target and seeing DP getting applied to it as well).

#14 Asopiram

Asopiram

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:10 AM

If 1%crit = 166.67 intell
and
1 intell =0.114 mp5

Does that mean 1% crit = 19 mp5?

So 45.9 crit rating = 19pm5?

#15 Tainter

Tainter

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 01:26 PM

No.

Part of the mp5 from Int comes from it increasing max mana. Therefore it provides more mana from replinishment and mana tide. Another part comes from the spirit-based mana regeneration.

I'm not sure which of these was taken into account for that (1 Int = 0.114 mp5) number and which buffs and how much Spirit that assumes.

Edit:
It looks like you were referring to the Compendium stat conversion. I guess then the answer becomes: "Yes, 1% crit provides 0.114 mp5 from Holy Concentration and Improved Holy Concentration if you use the procs in a very specific way."

But of course crit also makes you more likely to get Serendipity...
If you can't join them?
Beat them.

#16 Crow

Crow

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 55 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:32 PM

If 1%crit = 166.67 intell
and
1 intell =0.114 mp5

Does that mean 1% crit = 19 mp5?

So 45.9 crit rating = 19pm5?


Where did you get that number from and what exactly are you asking about? 1 int = 0.114 mp5 is the result of Constantius calculation of IHC procs mp5 value (only the free casts, not potential OOFSR time) when you are chaincasting BH 50% of the time and GH other 50%. You use all IHC procs to cast GH.

Short answer: NO

Long answer: Yes - mana gains from IHC procs from 1% crit can be estimated (expected value) as 19 mp5 (18.6 to be exact, there was quite some rounding in the calculations). You must remember however that this is a very rough estimate of IHC value, assuming chain-casting, not commonly met casting pattern and even than the real gains will vary a lot (The fights are far too short for Big Numbers law to apply).

#17 Asopiram

Asopiram

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:23 PM

I'm trying to get a handle on a good conversion for crit. strike rating as I'm comparing gear. For example comparing Heroic Badge necks.





Chains has 34spirit which to me says: ~15mp5/8.5sp
For a grand picture of: 0%crit/67 sp/15mp5

Choker has 0.65% crit/59sp/13 mp5

What value can I put on that crit as Holy so I can compare gear?

#18 CrazyDazed

CrazyDazed

    Sixty Coffee Beans

  • Guild Members
  • 762 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:08 PM

Can anyone recommend a method for aoe grinding with Mind Sear? Is it even possible? I was hoping to put VT and SW:P on a group of maybe 4 or 5 mobs and then mind sear them down. I would use DP whenever it was up as well. Does Shadow's Reach increase the radius of Mind Sear?


I usually shield myself first, then put Vampiric Touch and SW:P on first mob, then run around try to grab as much mobs as possible with SW:P without them leashing. Then just stand here and target original mob with Mind Sear, and finish off the target after everything else dies. Don't worry about getting hit, you will only lose one tick out of five ticks.

It's harder with low end gear, of course. You'll usually end up with low health and mana. It becomes way, way, way easier with high end level 80 gear.

#19 Cosi

Cosi

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:21 PM

I'm trying to get a handle on a good conversion for crit. strike rating as I'm comparing gear. For example comparing Heroic Badge necks.





Chains has 34spirit which to me says: ~15mp5/8.5sp
For a grand picture of: 0%crit/67 sp/15mp5

Choker has 0.65% crit/59sp/13 mp5

What value can I put on that crit as Holy so I can compare gear?


This is from what I understand by reading the theorycraft behind this. The is a gamble, while the is not.

For holy it is possible assuming best results for IHC that the Lattice Choker of Light will give you the same or similar regen as the Encircling Burnished Gold Chains. It could give you more or less, depending on what crits, when. However unless you have 25%+ crit to spells it is not very noticeable to see critical spells very often. (This is my opinion, based on my experience.)

For discipline I would value the Lattice Choker of Light higher hands down. Discipline has more casts per minute then holy, and crit is pretty important for it. Though I wouldn't dump spirit all together quite yet.

In the end they are pretty close.

#20 constantius

constantius

    Soda Popinski

  • Members
  • 3,749 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:48 PM

is the clearly superior item. You won't find yourself running *less* than 80% I5SR for any content where you actually need regen, which puts the value of 34 spirit at ~ 12 Mp5. More regen, more crit, and no wasted ilvl points on hit.

This will almost always be true for an item with points that are truly useless for you. Any hit? Sub-optimal piece. Any strength/agility? (obvious :)) Useless for you.

There are a large number of items which are stam/int/crit/spell/Mp5 or stam/int/haste/spell/Mp5. These are almost universally good for us. The only caveat is that losing the spirit means losing OO5SR regen (for when you manage to get it), and losing *some* spellpower, due to Spiritual Guidance. For Disc, no SG means it's a no-brainer. For holy, just balance it out well.

For example, on cloaks, is an amazing cloak. However, is better in almost every way, even though it has no real regen stats on it. But we'll never get the latter, as its BiS for every dps caster, so settle for Unworthy Wizard in a heartbeat. The better comparison might be to , which is a very similar (if lower ilvl) item, with Mp5 instead of Spirit. They *are* very comparable.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users