Jump to content


Photo

Priest: Simple Questions/Simple Answers


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2077 replies to this topic

#21 Isin

Isin

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:53 PM

This is purely a leveling question, but can Mind Flay crits proc Surge of Light? I need a new build to spice up my leveling, but I read on the beta forums that this was bugged and not proccing. Has anyone tried this out on live? I know for a fact that Mind Sear can.

[EDIT: I dropped the 50g and tried it out. It does work. Mind flay crits now proc Surge of Light properly. It's a very silly spec but it gives me something shiny while I'm leveling. OK, gotta get back to killing more zombie snow boars or something.]

#22 Sinndir

Sinndir

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 865 posts

Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:40 PM

This will almost always be true for an item with points that are truly useless for you. Any hit? Sub-optimal piece. Any strength/agility? (obvious :)) Useless for you.


Nid, I'm going to have to disagree. While not the best choices if items have hit on them there are items with hit that are very good. As my guild is currently taking leveling a bit on the slower side since the current raiding content is nothing to rush to we are doing Naxx with 7-9 people.

I was fortunate enough to be able to loot two staves. and . With haste being not nearly as good as it was in Sunwell (unending mana pools) and with regen being more important now (personally I find this). I have elected to use the with a +45 spirit enchant on it. I find the extra intellect and stamina on the Sulfur Stave to be more beneficial than the 89 haste rating.

#23 lassenc

lassenc

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:10 AM

Wasn't able to post in the UI section, so this I found more fitting.

I, as a healer, find myself looking way too much down at the health bars and forgetting to look at the actual fight.

How have you overcome this? Maybe some UI changes that can help?

#24 Jesta

Jesta

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:21 AM

I would like to ask the most basic question.

How does a priest heal in raids? This question may seem complex, but i really do want just the basic explanation.

Do you focus on g-heal on the tank? flash's? Do instants heals (PoM, sheild, Renew) take priority over direct heals?
How much should you abuse CoH?

I am asking because I was a druid healer at 70, and changed over to priest for wotlk, so I'm basically learning to raid from scratch again. If there is a guide around that lays down the foundation of priest tactics that would be really helpfull.

Thanks :D

#25 Vihermaali

Vihermaali

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:48 AM

How does a priest heal in raids? This question may seem complex, but i really do want just the basic explanation.

Do you focus on g-heal on the tank? flash's? Do instants heals (PoM, sheild, Renew) take priority over direct heals?
How much should you abuse CoH?


First and most important rule of priest healing: there are no rules. Learn the pro's and con's of each spell and use them depending the situation you are in.

Some basic rules to follow, though (as HOLY, can't talk for disc as haven't tested it out):
When healing a tank, use greater heal and IF you have time renew/prayer of mending/pw:s.
When healing raid, use CoH for major damage, remember to keep casting prayer of mending at all times and for single target healing flash heal and renew.

But like I said, it's all about adapting into situation so worst thing you can do as a priest is to train yourself to use only a couple of spells.

#26 Fwing

Fwing

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:24 PM

I would like to ask the most basic question.

How does a priest heal in raids? This question may seem complex, but i really do want just the basic explanation.

Do you focus on g-heal on the tank? flash's? Do instants heals (PoM, sheild, Renew) take priority over direct heals?
How much should you abuse CoH?

I am asking because I was a druid healer at 70, and changed over to priest for wotlk, so I'm basically learning to raid from scratch again. If there is a guide around that lays down the foundation of priest tactics that would be really helpfull.

Thanks :D


For main tank healing you want to keep a Renew rolling, bounce PoM whenever you can and keep a GH in the pipe (use /stopcast) at all time - let it land when it's needed.
For raid healing you'll mainly use CoH but will end up using every tool in the box at one point or another.

The things that take practice as a Holy Priest are IMO:
1) Regen/5SR management including proper pet usage.
2) When and how to use your instant spells.
3) Binding Heal. Lots of priests drastically under-use this spell IMO. As soon as I take any damage my first instinct is to look for a Binding Heal target.
4) Reflexes. This touches on all of the above but also applies to Fade/Desperate Prayer. These will save your bacon.

I also swear by Clique and a 5-button mouse ;)

#27 Bjork

Bjork

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:27 PM

Wasn't able to post in the UI section, so this I found more fitting.

I, as a healer, find myself looking way too much down at the health bars and forgetting to look at the actual fight.

How have you overcome this? Maybe some UI changes that can help?


As you say, this isn't the UI section, but two things are very important.

1. Keybindings. Have everything binded.

2. Good raidframes in a central position on your screen. Good means that you can see in a glimps of a second who has aggro, who takes damage, where your PoM is, which targets you have Renew on, which targets that are in range, etc.

It's very obvious, but a lot of fail play is from just having a bad UI. Always work on improving it. Also switching your view to look at the boss as much as possible (and your other surroundings) is both important and makes the game more fun. It's actually possible to time a lot of healing just by looking at the boss and not at the healtbars.

Good luck.

#28 lassenc

lassenc

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:52 PM

As you say, this isn't the UI section, but two things are very important.

1. Keybindings. Have everything binded.

2. Good raidframes in a central position on your screen. Good means that you can see in a glimps of a second who has aggro, who takes damage, where your PoM is, which targets you have Renew on, which targets that are in range, etc.

It's very obvious, but a lot of fail play is from just having a bad UI. Always work on improving it. Also switching your view to look at the boss as much as possible (and your other surroundings) is both important and makes the game more fun. It's actually possible to time a lot of healing just by looking at the boss and not at the healtbars.

Good luck.


I have moved my raid and party frames so they appear in the center of my screen at the bottom. And then actionbars to right. I know all my binds by heart. I get what you say about looking at the boss itself (I assume to look at when he is going to use an ability?), however I don't feel confident enough yet to do so.

5mans in Outland was a walkover, but I find the damage here in Northrend alot more spiky and I can't really handle that.

I tend to use Greater Heal over Flash heal alot, I rarely use Flash heal because I am trying to conserve my mana. Maybe I should use flash heal more?

I am trying to use the 5sec rule (As I have understood it) as much as possible. Eg. casting all my instants just after each other instead of maybe doing them with 1-2 sec space in between, to have as much as possible not casting (In order to get out of the 5sec)

Is this correctly understood? And how can I optimize that with Inner Focus?
Please bear with me, I dinged 70 not long before exp.

I've read the compendium a few times, but me and math is not going very well. Would you know an addon like Druidstats that easily compares items to raw effect?

Hope you guys can cope with all my questions :)

#29 typobox

typobox

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 01:24 PM

Flash Heal is surprisingly efficient with the glyph. With downranking effectively removed from the game, glyphed Flash Heal is your heal for anything in the <5k HP range. If you're trying to efficiently use only Greater Heal (with little overheal), you're going to find yourself losing tanks to spike damage far too often. This is just my opinion, but Flash Heal has become my primary heal in any situation where the tank isn't getting pounded. Using PoM liberally gives you a bit of a buffer there, too, plus a mana efficiency boost. Non-crit GH:9 will easily hit for well over 8k, with crits as high as 14k depending on spec as soon as you ding 80. That's a really big hammer, and not one that is going to be the best choice in many cases.

As for the 5 second rule - use it and love it. If you find yourself starting to run a bit dry on mana, get the tank topped off, hit Inner Focus, and start cancel-casting a GH until it's needed. Also, remember that Clearcasting/Surge of Light heals cost no mana, and therefore don't trigger the 5 second rule. This means that you can use Clearcasting procs in a very similar way - get the proc, start cancel-casting GH, and let it land when necessary, or when the Clearcast is about to fade. (As you can tell, I play deep Holy... if you go Discipline, Clearcasting/SoL aren't options for you.)

#30 lassenc

lassenc

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 01:55 PM

Flash Heal is surprisingly efficient with the glyph. With downranking effectively removed from the game, glyphed Flash Heal is your heal for anything in the <5k HP range. If you're trying to efficiently use only Greater Heal (with little overheal), you're going to find yourself losing tanks to spike damage far too often. This is just my opinion, but Flash Heal has become my primary heal in any situation where the tank isn't getting pounded. Using PoM liberally gives you a bit of a buffer there, too, plus a mana efficiency boost. Non-crit GH:9 will easily hit for well over 8k, with crits as high as 14k depending on spec as soon as you ding 80. That's a really big hammer, and not one that is going to be the best choice in many cases.

As for the 5 second rule - use it and love it. If you find yourself starting to run a bit dry on mana, get the tank topped off, hit Inner Focus, and start cancel-casting a GH until it's needed. Also, remember that Clearcasting/Surge of Light heals cost no mana, and therefore don't trigger the 5 second rule. This means that you can use Clearcasting procs in a very similar way - get the proc, start cancel-casting GH, and let it land when necessary, or when the Clearcast is about to fade. (As you can tell, I play deep Holy... if you go Discipline, Clearcasting/SoL aren't options for you.)


As you can see from my spec I am disc at the moment, this was more for lvl/instance healing, and I love penance. This might be due to the fact that I did suffer from alot of spikes, I did not consider the Flash Heal Glyph but will now do so.

Always considered Flash healing a last resort.

#31 Morgain

Morgain

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 02:19 PM

Do you guys have any suggestions for proffesions? I have been enchanter/tailor since I made my priest back at the very beginning. Atm I'm trying out disc for healing and I love it, and I still think enchanting is very usefull. However I have seen some comments about the tailoring stuff not worth making but instead getting the new badge rewards. So I'm wondering if I should drop tailoring for something more usefull. If so what?
I have considered inscription for the shoulder-enchants and offhands and alchemy. Any suggestions?

#32 lassenc

lassenc

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 02:23 PM

My only argument for keeping tailoring would be valuable here in the beginning is for crafting of items when progressing in raids. But since Naxx should be a walkover, maybe there is no need to use time on craftings?

#33 Isin

Isin

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 02:32 PM

There is a great summary of perks for each profession here:
http://elitistjerks....861-post41.html

Tailoring's perk for healers is an embroidery that is worth about 16.5 mp5 which is still quite a bit better than the non-tailor alternative, 10 spirit. Basically each profession's relative perks for a healer is:

Tailoring: +16.5 mp5 (at a loss of 10 spirit)
Leatherworkiing: +37 spellpower
Enchanting: +38 spellpower
Skinning: +25 crit rating
Jewelcrafting: +37 spellpower
Inscription: +37 spellpower
Blacksmithing: +24 spellpower and +20 intellect (2 extra sockets, socketed with in this example)
Alchemy: +37 spellpower or 13 mp5 depending on which flask you're using

All the other professions seem to augment non-optimal stats for healers. Out of all of them, I think tailoring/enchanting remain pretty strong. The only perk I would take over the enchanting one would be Blacksmithing, but you obviously lose some other synergies there. Tailoring may be a little weak in comparison to the other spellpower based perks, but it is the only one that will help with mana.

I didn't include the alchemy trinkets because they use a trinket slot, so it's hard to say what it is relative to, but of course the alchemy trinkets are very strong. Anyway, lets not derail this into the profession thread.

#34 Bjork

Bjork

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 03:02 PM

Can't see Alchemy on the list...?

#35 bbartlog

bbartlog

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 03:33 PM

I am trying to use the 5sec rule (As I have understood it) as much as possible. Eg. casting all my instants just after each other instead of maybe doing them with 1-2 sec space in between, to have as much as possible not casting (In order to get out of the 5sec)


You have the right general idea about bunching up your spells, but one point about instants and non-instants that you are missing is that what you want to do when casting a cluster of spells is to start with a spell that has a cast time and finish with an instant spell, with (usually) other casts in between. This is so you can minimize the amount of time between the first and last mana expenditure, these being the points in time that determine your entry and exit from the five second rule.

Suppose that in a 12-second span of time you want to cast Prayer of Healing, Greater Heal, Renew and Prayer of Mending - a pretty common mix in a five-man situation if everyone is taking damage but the tank is taking more. First of all, it's easy to see that if you just sort of cast them ad lib you probably aren't going to spend any time OO5SR.
Best results are if you can lead off with the longest-cast spell (Prayer of Healing), then cast one of the instants and Greater Heal (in either order) and finish off with the other instant. In this case, total time between first and last mana expenditure is (theoretically) only 4 seconds - the 2.5 seconds spent casting GHeal plus one global cooldown. Add five seconds to that, and you have 9 seconds I5SR and 3 seconds OO5SR.
If you lead off with an instant and finish with a timed cast, the time between mana expenditures may be as high as 8.5 seconds, resulting in no time OO5SR (given a 12-second cycle). That's several hundred mana down the drain just from casting your spells in the wrong order.

#36 toth

toth

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 04:11 PM

As for the 5 second rule - use it and love it. If you find yourself starting to run a bit dry on mana, get the tank topped off, hit Inner Focus, and start cancel-casting a GH until it's needed. Also, remember that Clearcasting/Surge of Light heals cost no mana, and therefore don't trigger the 5 second rule. This means that you can use Clearcasting procs in a very similar way - get the proc, start cancel-casting GH, and let it land when necessary, or when the Clearcast is about to fade. (As you can tell, I play deep Holy... if you go Discipline, Clearcasting/SoL aren't options for you.)

I just wanted to add that you can often use a Clearcasting proc in conjunction with Inner Focus to get a lot of OO5SR mana regen in. When you see your mana starting to drop wait a couple of casts to look for a clearcasting proc. Now do as typobox suggested and start stopcasting a GHeal. Let it land when the tank needs it or the clearcasting proc is going to fade, whichever comes first. Then hit Inner Focus and do the same thing. Finish off by stopcasting a GHeal until the tank needs another heal. Depending on how spiky the damage is, let him drop slightly lower than usual and bounce a ProM off him as you finish casting the GHeal. That's a lot of OO5SR regen that you're able to take advantage of.

#37 Sadiem

Sadiem

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:23 PM

Is there anywhere I can find theorycrafts, or maths of what stats does around what dps?

I still have problems to know if an item is better than another; how much spirit I need to equate 1 SP or 1 crit, etc.

Also, I think you are missing +hit, +crit, intel, spirit and mp/5 for jewelcrafting :)

#38 Imua

Imua

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 86 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 09:19 PM

+hit is meaningless for healers. And is the first thing you go for as shadow until you hit the cap after which you go for other stats. So discussion on +hit seems pretty useless overall.

On healing UI:
Get some sort of unitframe add-on. Grid, Pitbull, Xperl, whatever. (People will have their opinions) I suggest putting your raid health bars in the bottom center of your screen. Put your unitframes around it - this way you can see everything you need to in one spot. This should also free up a great deal of real estate for you to see the encounter.

On raid healing:
It is very important to understand how the damage is coming into the raid. Is it a 9k spike throughout the raid with a 10 second respite to allow you to fill it back up? Or is it a constant 1k a sec tick? You would obviously heal differently depending on the situation.
The details depend on the spec. Holy raid healing leans on CoH. Glyph of Flash Heal makes FHeal a very attractive filler if there's only one target or if there's a CD on CoH.
Disc wants to use alot of shields and quick FHeal and quick Penances.
Note that in general, Holy is considered more of the raid healer and Disc more of the tank healer. However, that does not mean, that they can ONLY do that. The primary strength of a priest healer is that they can do everything.

#39 bbartlog

bbartlog

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 19 November 2008 - 10:47 PM

Looking at how Rapture works, I came across this formula for the mana returned:

0.01035[constant]*max mana/basemana(2620 at 70)*amount healed

...capped at 2.5% of your max mana. Substituting the base mana figure for lvl 80, I get

mana returned = (max mana * amount healed) / 373234 , to a maximum of max mana / 40 ( = 2.5%)

Looking at this, it would appear that there is a specific amount healed that corresponds to the mana return cap: 9330 health. If I heal this much, I get back 2.5% of max mana. Healing more than this gets no additional benefit from Rapture. Healing less than this will never hit the Rapture cap. Only Greater Heal seems like it can heal this much, and for Disc priests will probably only pass this mark on a crit.

Simple questions:
- is my understanding of this mechanic correct?
- is the constant in the above formula correct?
- does this mean Discipline priests won't want to use Greater Heal as much?

#40 Beliandra

Beliandra

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 02:20 AM

Is there an addon anyone can recommend for displaying whether my Prayer of Mending is still "in play"? I tried one quite a while ago called MendWatch (now abandoned, it seems), but it didn't seem able to distinguish between my PoM and one that some other priest cast. That information may simply not be there, I don't know.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users