Jump to content


Photo

Priest: Simple Questions/Simple Answers


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2077 replies to this topic

#41 Sebalot

Sebalot

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 122 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:55 AM

Is there an addon anyone can recommend for displaying whether my Prayer of Mending is still "in play"? I tried one quite a while ago called MendWatch (now abandoned, it seems), but it didn't seem able to distinguish between my PoM and one that some other priest cast. That information may simply not be there, I don't know.


I'm using Dotimer (DoTimer - Addons - Curse) and it keeps track of PoM. Shows who it is on and what charge it is. Dotimer of course is also useful for SW:P uptime when you want to help dps a bit.

#42 Penicilin

Penicilin

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:04 AM

Is there an addon anyone can recommend for displaying whether my Prayer of Mending is still "in play"? I tried one quite a while ago called MendWatch (now abandoned, it seems), but it didn't seem able to distinguish between my PoM and one that some other priest cast. That information may simply not be there, I don't know.


I use Grid. Set it as a bottom button. Everytime it jumps to new character small dot appears. Also it change colour according to number of charges.

#43 Crow

Crow

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 55 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 12:47 PM

Cast one of the instants and Greater Heal (in either order) and finish off with the other instant. In this case, total time between first and last mana expenditure is (theoretically) only 4 seconds - the 2.5 seconds spent casting GHeal plus one global cooldown. Add five seconds to that, and you have 9 seconds I5SR and 3 seconds OO5SR.
If you lead off with an instant and finish with a timed cast, the time between mana expenditures may be as high as 8.5 seconds, resulting in no time OO5SR (given a 12-second cycle). That's several hundred mana down the drain just from casting your spells in the wrong order.


It is also worth noticing (since he said he is discipline) that channeled spells (Penance) consume mana when they are cast (normal cast spells use mana when they land, just in case). So if you cast Penance and follow it with GH you are not spending mana through whole cast time of Penance and GH.

#44 Tainter

Tainter

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 12:49 PM

Looking at how Rapture works, I came across this formula for the mana returned:

0.01035[constant]*max mana/basemana(2620 at 70)*amount healed

...capped at 2.5% of your max mana. Substituting the base mana figure for lvl 80, I get

mana returned = (max mana * amount healed) / 373234 , to a maximum of max mana / 40 ( = 2.5%)

Looking at this, it would appear that there is a specific amount healed that corresponds to the mana return cap: 9330 health. If I heal this much, I get back 2.5% of max mana. Healing more than this gets no additional benefit from Rapture. Healing less than this will never hit the Rapture cap. Only Greater Heal seems like it can heal this much, and for Disc priests will probably only pass this mark on a crit.

Simple questions:
- is my understanding of this mechanic correct?
- is the constant in the above formula correct?
- does this mean Discipline priests won't want to use Greater Heal as much?


Your understanding looks correct. Whether the constant is true or not I can't tell you, because I'm not 80 yet. But it was true at 70 as far as I remember.

As far as using Greater Heal in a Disc build goes: It's still a good spell to use. You can't fill your free time with Penance, Shield and PoM. Particularly not while tank healing. For 5-mans that means you get to regen some mana while doing nothing. For raids (and also PvP to some degree, even though there you can usually spend time on offensive abilities) it means you need to cast something else. You'd either be using Flash Heal to top people up, Prayer of Healing in heavy AoE moments or Greater Heal for more throughput on the tank.

The fact that a certain level of spell power adding more spell power doesn't increase rapture gains isn't really a problem. If you still want more regen you can starting grabbing more Int to boost your rapture gains. Int never stops increasing the current incarnation of rapture.
If you can't join them?
Beat them.

#45 dyelynn

dyelynn

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 38 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:12 PM

Is there anywhere I can find theorycrafts, or maths of what stats does around what dps?

I still have problems to know if an item is better than another; how much spirit I need to equate 1 SP or 1 crit, etc.

Also, I think you are missing +hit, +crit, intel, spirit and mp/5 for jewelcrafting :)


shadowpriest.com • View topic - Best Raiding Gear Available (WotLK)

* 1 spellpower = 1 PP
* 1 crit rating = 0.61 PP
* 1 haste = 0.56 PP
* 1 spirit = 0.21 PP
* 1 int = 0.19 PP
* 1 hit = 1.12 PP (when not hit-capped)
* spellpower + crit*0.61 + int*0.19 + spirit*0.21 + haste*0.56 + hit*1.12 + sockets + meta [CSD] = total PP


PP is pseudo power, or an ambiguous term mean to apply to all dps increasing stats. This is a breakdown of how much each stat is worth in terms of PP.

#46 Poor

Poor

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:11 PM

Quick question on disc specs:

Is Aegis better than IH for a full disc build? I would think IH would be better for mana efficiency if you're non-stop healing the tank than aegis would.

IH build vs. Aegis build

Any thoughts?

#47 Tainter

Tainter

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:04 PM

Maybe Improved Healing is better for efficiency for non-stop healing. I'm too lazy to do the maths. I never had mana problems with Disc so far. And I never had improved healing so far. However I haven't healed any 80 raids.

Aegis increases your output as well as your efficiency and it may allow you to take the occasional gap in healing if you've scored a Greater Heal crit.

In a way Aegis is part of the reason why crit is good for Disc. If you don't take it then your gear choice I suspect would be quite different. Your main stat would be spell power until your Greater Heal becomes "rapture capped" and then Int all the way.

Without Spiritual Guidance Spirit isn't going to be so great. Without Spiritual Healing/Divine Providence spell power is going to be somewhat worse. And without Aegis crit is going to be less valuable. But really ideally you want as many stats to be great for you as possible to spread the budget around.

Aegis all the way. It's a true signature talent for Disc I'd say. Aegis, Rapture and Penance make Disc work in my opinion.
If you can't join them?
Beat them.

#48 bbartlog

bbartlog

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:22 PM

I don't think a Disc priest is going to be rapture-capped with non-crit GHeal until gear levels are quite high, like 2200 spellpower (which is even harder to achieve without Spiritual Guidance). And given the way Rapture works I doubt it makes sense to stack spellpower in preference to int if your aim is regen/endurance; the main reason for still getting spellpower is that ultimately you need throughput as well.
Of course, we're talking about a Disc build without Aegis which seems to me like a rare, rather theoretical construct. Anyone who goes deep enough into Disc is going to pick up this talent unless they're deliberately doing something weird.

#49 Xtian

Xtian

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:30 PM

Quick question on disc specs:

Is Aegis better than IH for a full disc build? I would think IH would be better for mana efficiency if you're non-stop healing the tank than aegis would.

IH build vs. Aegis build

Any thoughts?



[In the event that you want IH over throughput,] Disc priests who run with Paladin tanks will want to siphon points from Grace instead of DA to get IH. Since Blessing of Sanctuary will override the 3% damage reduction from Grace, the 3% increased healing doesn't outweigh even the throughput contribution of DA. I would modify your earlier IH build by doing this.

EDIT: Added specificity about the situational nature of the post. See Thorongil's post for reasons why most Disc priest will prefer Grace over IH.

#50 Krypt0s

Krypt0s

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:02 PM

Does Penance give 3 chances to proc "your healing spells have a chance" items like ?

#51 The Not So Evil

The Not So Evil

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 246 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:59 PM

Disc priests who run with Paladin tanks will want to siphon points from Grace instead of DA to get IH. Since Blessing of Sanctuary will override the 3% damage reduction from Grace, the 3% increased healing doesn't outweigh even the throughput contribution of DA. I would modify your earlier IH build by doing this.


I mean someone reported that Grace and BoSanct do stack, I'll try to get it confirmed some day.

Does Penance give 3 chances to proc "your healing spells have a chance" items like ?


From what I have seen on other trinkets, Penance does indeed have 3 chances to proc any proc.
Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.3.x!

#52 Belenos

Belenos

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 120 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:08 PM

I, as a healer, find myself looking way too much down at the health bars and forgetting to look at the actual fight.

How have you overcome this? Maybe some UI changes that can help?


Naturally, we who are focused on health bars tend to have tunnel vision. While you do need to develop situational awareness (so you are not so focused on bars that you're standing in the fire all the time), here are a few things that can help:

1) Make your UI as efficient as you can. Tweak it until it is showing you all the information you need, in a compact and simple way, that you can understand at a glance, all in one area of the screen. Also use click-casting, or mouseover macros, or keybinds so you can easily cast anything you need to with minimal effort. These will demand less attention for healing, so you can spend more attention on things like positioning or phase changes or whatever.

2) If you consistently miss some event you need to be aware of, like a boss ability or AOE, try to bring it into your UI. It sounds silly, but if you have trouble being aware of when you're standing in a fire or when the boss has used a debuff, you can add those abilities to Grid or a unit frame or an SCT warning as a fallback.

3) Use sound as well as graphics. It is easy for Grid or timer bars to become overwhelming with info. Use mods to provide sound cues, especially for important procs and events, like a boss ability, clearcasting proc, etc. Your 5 senses can work in parallel, so take advantage of it.
Author of CasterWeaponSwapper: suggestions welcome by forum PM or to wikwocket@gmail.com.

#53 bbartlog

bbartlog

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:57 PM

I would think IH would be better for mana efficiency if you're non-stop healing the tank than aegis would.


Yes - if pure heals-per-mana is your concern, IH beats Aegis until you get to very high levels of crit. Aegis is obviously crit-dependent and also relies somewhat on synergy with Rapture, making it scale with your mana pool and spellpower; whereas IH provides an essentially fixed discount.

Assume you have 1600 spellpower, 20K mana, and 25% crit (that includes Renewed Hope and Holy Specialization), with most of your points in Disc talents:
Greater Heal baseline (non-crit) will heal for about 7500 and cost 1236 mana. Rapture will return 402 of that (non-crit) regardless of whether we choose IH or DA, for a cost of 834 mana (without IH) or 649 (with 3/3 IH). On a crit, we hit the rapture cap and get back 500 mana, for costs of 736 and 551 respectively.

Now we can calculate the average heals-per-mana that IH has with GHeal: (0.75*7500 + 0.25*11250)/(0.75*649 + 0.25*551) = about 13.5.

With DA, we get two additional benefits: Rapture returns mana when the shield absorbs damage, and the shield itself may be counted as healing above and beyond what we already got. The mana returned will be 181, the shield is just 3375 extra healing: So (0.75*7500 + 0.25*14625)/(0.75*834 + 0.25*555) = about 12.1.

You can mess with the numbers some (for example, see what happens if we assume that crit overhealing goes to waste), but they don't change the basic result. If you push the crit percentage up to 35% and also assume that overheals go to waste (but the aegis obviously does not), then DA starts to look competitive in terms of heals per mana.

However, I think that unless you're really feeling mana-starved you would still want to switch to DA around 25% crit, just for the superior average throughput, which is substantial. It's probably about 7%, which translates to an extra global cooldown every twenty seconds to do more stuff (if spamming heals) or maybe even a chance for OO5SR regen (if there's a lull).

#54 Ayreon

Ayreon

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 114 posts

Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:01 PM

Does Divine Hymn have any use at all?

#55 Vihermaali

Vihermaali

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:31 AM

Does Divine Hymn have any use at all?


1) Crowd control up to 10 mobs or players for 20 seconds. Works on everything but mechanical.
2) Heal for craploads

With 1736 spellpower:
586hp/sec for 6secs 10 targets equals total of 35 160 healing with 656 mana cost (flash heal = 625 with glyph) and 1,5 second cast.

#56 Ayreon

Ayreon

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 114 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:42 AM

1) Crowd control up to 10 mobs or players for 20 seconds. Works on everything but mechanical.
2) Heal for craploads

With 1736 spellpower:
586/sec for 6secs 10 targets equals total of 35 160 healing with 656 mana cost (flash heal = 625 with glyph) and 1,5 second cast.


1) This souns good but only in theory, as attacking one of the stunned mobs has a chance to break the stun on them all for some reason. Also, I am pretty sure I have seen a few regular mobs in heroics that were immune to the effect (berserkers in UP if I recall corectly, I can be wrong though).

2) Again, sounds good in theory but the number of fights where this would be of great use is very limited. I can think of Loatheb but not much else. Also the cooldown is so long you only can use it once per fight.

Perhaps I need to experiment with it a bit more...

#57 Gooch

Gooch

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:01 PM

What is the standard build for a disc priest in situations where you won't have a paladin for concentration aura, 3 points in divine fury, 2 points in healing focus?

#58 Thorongil

Thorongil

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 227 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:54 PM

Concerning Divine Hymn: Honestly, it´s pretty pointless in the present WotlK-world, where basically CCs aren´t required anymore. I could have seen some nice use for it in TBC, where you could´ve CCd all trashs but one and henceforth burn down consecutive mobs but that is not needed in WotlK. Any tank in blue tank gear can be healed while tanking complete trash packs on hero making hymn near-obsolete.

Concerning Disc-specc: Stick with the cookie-cutter, regardless of a Paladin or not. You don´t need healing focus, it´s pretty bad. Pushbacks will hardly every occur, and in cases you fear them simply shield yourself and toss a quick GH afterwards. Due to the new pushback system Healing Focus is far too odd-situational to have considerable use. Stick with Divine Fury, it´s quite handy. Especially when raiding you´ll find yourself casting a good amount of GH to cover the cooldown-phases of PoM, Penance and PW:S.
Posted Image

#59 Tainter

Tainter

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 03:13 PM

I think Healing Focus is now mainly a PvP talent. Under pressure in PvP even half a second on every heal cast will save lives.

As for Divine Hymn, it also looks more like a PvP ability. The ability to simultaneously inerrupt/incapacitate multiple enemies is powerful. The cast time makes the ability a bit tricky to use perhaps. But Disc Priests have a fair amount of haste going, making it easier. The long cooldown makes it somewhat of a clutch ability.

Having an enemy healer stand still while Mana Burning him is cool. And because Mana Burn doesn't do much damage the effect is going to last for a few casts.

I have two questions about Divine Hymn though:
1) Which other effects does it share diminishing returns with (if any)?
2) Is it broken by Berserker Rage?
If you can't join them?
Beat them.

#60 Xtian

Xtian

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 21 November 2008 - 03:25 PM

I mean someone reported that Grace and BoSanct do stack, I'll try to get it confirmed some day.


BoS and Grace do not stack their damage reduction effects. The kicker effects (mana/etc. regen and +3% healing) do stack.

MMO-Champion RaidComp
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Changes to Debuffs, Buffs, and Raid Stacking (check out the "Damage Reduction Percentage Buff").

If the damage reduction effects are stacking then it's either a bug or a stealth buff.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users