Jump to content


Photo

Rawr Healadin Model


  • Please log in to reply
252 replies to this topic

#21 Equalizer

Equalizer

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 91 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:02 PM

Free file hosting by Savefile.com should work hopefully.

#22 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:17 PM

The file you uploaded had no buffs set which will cause odd numbers, not sure if you just uploaded the wrong file. After I set them it is rating / higher.

It is valuing Int (and to a lesser extent Mp5) highly, since with the gear level you have you really can't cast that many Holy Lights (only 1 per every 2.5 FoLs). So increasing how many you can cast is the best for you currently, in terms of total healing done. I don't know why you say you can't use all your mana, there are definitely fights where you could (with your mana pool) while not wasting them.

#23 Equalizer

Equalizer

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 91 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:16 PM

Dunno why it had no buffs set. I had it set when I saved. Only time I've run out of mana was the last 1% of a Patchwork kill where I was healing very poorly.

Other than that nothing in Naxx 25 taxes me very heavily mana wise.

#24 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:42 PM

Just because you can do it without more mana doesn't mean more mana is worthless. If you have more mana you can do a LOT more Holy Lights. With my gear I can spam Holy Light 100% of the time on Patchwerk, does some of it overheal a lot? Sure. Do I do a lot more healing and reduce the chance of my tank dying by a lot? Definitely. Also Naxx isn't supposed to be really difficult (entry level raid), so you really should be gearing more for hard mode of current fights (3 drake Sarth) or for what Ulduar might throw at us.

#25 Guest_allythepally_*

Guest_allythepally_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:08 PM

From the first post, I'm guessing this is the place for bug reports. I'm having an issue where the module is rating "Heroes' Redemption Gloves" under "Handgrips of the Foredoomed," even when the former is gemmed to be strictly better in all the relevant stats. How to repro:

1. Start Rawr 2.1.3 with an empty Blood Elf Paladin.
2. Use the comparison chart "Gear > Hands."
3. Find Heroes' Redemption Gloves and edit them to be socketted with a Reckless Flawless Ametrine.
4. Check the item ratings. Handgrips of the Foredoomed will be rated 41.25 while Heroes' Redemption Gloves is rated 39.10. However, the stat comparison is:
Stat Heroes' Foredoomed
Stam 49 52
Int 51 49
SP 80 76
Crit 48 48
Haste 40 39

Heroes' are equal or better in every stat except stam, which doesn't contribute toward healing. In the summary it's also saying that Foredoomed gets a better crit rate on FoL, HL, etc. when Heroes' should edge it out slightly.

#26 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:50 PM

It is giving the Handgrips a rating of 37.13 for me, and same rating for T7 gloves. What is probably the issue is that you imported a character from armory that had the Handgrips socketed with a BS only socket, and it made a new copy of the item with that gem in. To check this right click the Handgrips and to edit item, and see if it has any gems selected. It isn't displaying this on the tooltip, because adding new sockets to your gear (with BS) isn't supported yet.

#27 Guest_allythepally_*

Guest_allythepally_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 December 2008 - 10:12 PM

Duh! That was it, thank you.

Incidentally, is there a way to remove gems from an item? The best I've been able to do is choose a pure-stam gem, which is equivalent for healing purposes. Maybe a better question would be, "Am I missing docs?" I didn't see anything about it in the readme.

#28 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 07 December 2008 - 10:40 PM

The best way to remove gems is to make a duplicate of the item (button on bottom left) and remove the old one. It normally isn't an issue, but being able to add your own gems has muddled it up.

#29 Pirjo

Pirjo

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:59 PM

The glyph of HL has a separate crit chance that is worth including in my opinion. It basically makes crit scale to the second power which is pretty potent when raid healing people in clusters.

edit:
corrected equation:
healing done per target by GHL = 0.1*(HL base)*(1+0.5*crit)^2

#30 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:11 PM

The glyph of HL has a separate crit chance that is worth including in my opinion. It basically makes crit scale to the second power [(1.5*crit%)^2] which is pretty potent when raid healing people in clusters.


True, I forgot about that. It is fixed now. GHL can be amazing on certain fights, it can make up for 15%+ of my healing on Malygos.

#31 Pirjo

Pirjo

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:43 PM

Just a note - you may have already caught this - but GHL is a nature spell - therefore crits based on nature spell crit. I had a 51% HL crit rate (t6 2pc+6% HL/HS+5% Holy = 16%) but only a 35% GHL crit rate. This was based on 800 HL casts and 3000 GHL - so a pretty significant data pool.

#32 galzohar

galzohar

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 2,004 posts

Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:07 PM

It may make crit worthy to the second power, however taking that to account is a rather small second order correction. Increase in effective healing is already less than 1/2 of the value of crit, and the glyph is at the very best less than 20% of your healing (based on the posts here). That adds up to a very small increase in the value of crit due to the fact the glyph can crit over your crits.

#33 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 12:42 AM

It is only like a 15%-20% increase to GHL. Not enough to drastically change the value of crit, but can have impact on items that are close.

#34 Arthaal

Arthaal

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 317 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 09:31 AM

Rawr.healadin seems to be rating the oddly. E.g. I had the helm socketed with a rare purple gem (the royal one, SP + mp5) and the Insightful Earthsiege meta and compared it to the similarly gemmed. Both helms were enchanted with 30SP + crit from Kirin'tor. Rawr placed the former well ahead of the latter, and below only the T7 helm in terms of fight HPS. I cannot figure out why though, since, apart from the 8 extra int. due to the socket bonus, and extra stam, the helms are identical, with the Corrupted mind offering some 44 haste rating over the Argent Crusade exalted helm. How can 8 int be rated more highly than 44 haste?
Percent modifiers R'US

#35 Rydaa

Rydaa

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:13 PM

The gear selection always favors regen stats (int/mefs) because its modeled in such a way to always try to increase the number of holy lights casted compared to flash of lights, at least from my understanding. So if your gear can't sustain casting holy lights all fight, its gonna say int/mefs is the best stat for you. And since haste just makes you consume more mana, it hates haste. In reality mana is not that important, and its the reason I never really consider the gear choices it gives me.

#36 Endoscient

Endoscient

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 716 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 04:45 PM

First off, one thing the can be causing weird things like that is meta gem requirements. So make sure the Enforce Meta Requirements checkbox is off.

Rydaa, it doesn't really hate haste (except in a few weird scenarios), just doesn't value it as highly. Either way once the next version comes out it will also model burst healing, and you can set a scale to it relative to total fight healing. So it will more accurately model the effects of Haste and similar stats.

#37 Rydaa

Rydaa

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:25 PM

Ya I didn't really mean to say it thinks haste makes things worst. What I meant to say was that it doesn't value it as well as most players actually would.

I am definitely looking forward to the next release, to see those types of results.

#38 Arthaal

Arthaal

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 317 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:18 PM

Well I've unticked "enforce meta requirements" and fiddled with the gear set to test it out more thoroughly. Helm of Purified thoughts comes out ahead in every scenario I can imagine and input. I've gone from a tiny, all blues, 19k mana pool set all the way to a 31k, all end game set... I've stacked int and mp5 enchants/buffs and shortened the fight length from 6 to 5 to 4 anf finally to 3 minutes. The only scenario in which I got the helm with a 44 haste rating and 4 crit rating advantage over the other to be superior according to rawr's fight HPS metric is sub 3.5 minute fights, stacking int/mp5 everywhere and sitting with a 32k mana pool... That may be correct, but it doesn't seem right.
Percent modifiers R'US

#39 galzohar

galzohar

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 2,004 posts

Posted 11 December 2008 - 10:23 PM

Make sure you're setting up a realistic "activity" time. In a real fight you clearly don't cast anywhere near 100% of the time, as sometimes you will be moving, and sometimes there will simply not be anyone to heal.

#40 Arthaal

Arthaal

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 317 posts

Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:27 AM

Well that seems to be a large factor yes... I guess I must be overestimating my activity level since I feel like I could spam HL most fights with proper use of DP, mana pot and Arcane Torrent in my current gear (at the very worst case, an 75/25 HL to FoL ratio is easily sustainable). After reducing the activity level just 5% to 80% over a 4 minute fight the Corrupted Thoughts comes out on top, as I would expect.

I suspect my Spiritual Attunement returns value is probably set a little low as well, since regen feels a lot more powerful in my current set than Rawr believes.
Percent modifiers R'US




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users