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Tanking Spreadsheet


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#21 Taliafears

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:05 PM

<Edited some out for stupidity.> :)

Health is still off because I haven't updated racial stats at 80, nor warrior base health at 80. I'm working on that, lots of gem stuff, and consumables as we speak, hopefully can get all this stuff done in the next couple days.

#22 Riall

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:20 PM

First, thank you Talia for all the hard work on the spreadsheet. A quick fix for people wanting to add buckles or who have blacksmithing is to just add a blue gem (assuming you'll be putting 24 stam into those slots) to each belt item (wrist and gloves if your a BS) on the gear list tab.

#23 Taliafears

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:26 PM

Ok, based on WWS, my back of the envelope calculation puts Patchwerk at upwards of 27k DPS to an unarmored player. I'm going to set the standard boss DPS to 24000 for now, pending further investigation.

#24 Taliafears

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:02 PM

New version up:

- added Lavanthor's Talisman
- changed base boss DPS to 24000
- added new buff foods, flasks, and elixirs from WotLK
- updated base racial stats and base health
- added Tauren racial health to Stats sheet calculation
- added the JC-only gems to the Gems sheet, you must manually select 3 of these gems on the GemChoices sheet if you're a JC
- updated a couple of item sources
- made burst reduction a little more important again
- added possibility for gem slot to neck
- added a free gem slot to belt on GemChoices sheet, assuming you will want to use an Eternal Belt Buckle (they're cheap)
- added a blacksmith toggle to Options sheet
- added gem slots to wrists and hands on GemChoices sheet, will activate if you set the blacksmith toggle to 1
- added Master's Inscription of the Pinnacle to shoulder enchants (inscriptors only)
- noted that Horn of Winter is interchangeable with Strength of Earth totem
- noted that Imp. Icy Talons is interchangeable with Imp. Windfury

#25 shawn313

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 02:32 PM

Thanks for this spreadsheet, it really helps me a lot when making gear decisions. I just wanted to point out that the stats for Amulet of Wills is slightly off. The spreadsheet lists it as having 25 defense, but really it is 25 dodge.

#26 Glory

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 11:20 AM

I think some Racials are a bit bad in Numbers

Gnome: Escape Artist 150 Points? I got Warbringer, every 15 Sec Charge +30Sec Intervene

Dwarf: Stoneform 10% Armor only 50 Points (Its an additional Trinket nice for Maexxna and Patchwerk enrage ... Well timed worth much more than 50 Points, the Bleed remove can be nice, rest is not needed because if there are really bad poisons/diseases they should be dispelled immediatly. Uptime*24k Armor from Items(if Buffs don't count) is about 100 Points.

Draenei: Hit Aura -> one other Draenei in your Raid which would be a shaman you bring in for Heroism and this bonus is gone.
Gift of the Naruu -> if you really need it you cant use it, because if you cast something your Parry/Dodge is 0% so you better let it be, correct me if this doesn't count for Gift of the Naruu.

Nightelf: 2% Miss is not worth 4% dodge, sure it is better than 2% dodge (Bosses can miss if your Stunned) and has no diminishing return. Well i'd calculate it as 2,5% dodge. Well they are still best tanking Class now.

Human: Dont know how often you can use Every Human for Himself on a Raid Boss. If its very useful its as good as your inferior Trinket so about 1500 Points in this single Fight.
Expertise for Swords Mace nothing to say.

Orc: Stun is about ok, you may can get hit once less on stuns where it works. Expertise for Axe nothing to say.

Troll: amout the same as Gnome, i got warbringer but i think thats not in your number. Haste can be ok, but remember Parry Haste :P.

Undead: Fear is no Issue for Warriors. You can use Berserker Rage in Defensive stance. If a boss Fears more often than every 30sec you have still Priests to help you. If thats not enough you may got 2 Warrior tanks who Taunt after fear and Tank till next fear. There is almost no Boss you cant Taunt.

Tauren: dont know how Base Health is exactly defined but looks about right.

#27 Taliafears

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:37 PM

Yeah, the AEP for the racial abilities has always been pretty intuitive. I never really took them seriously, since they're outside of what the sheet can calculate and (therefore) the AEP for a race is basically just cosmetic. I think you're spot on in your assessments there; warbringer certainly does reduce the value of escape artist and stupid human trick, and draenei racials are of limited usefulness. I guess I never looked closely enough at Stoneform to see the armor bonus, heh.

#28 jlafleur

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:07 PM

Great spreadsheet. Thanks for making it.

The base attack power for warrriors is 220 at level 80 instead of 190.

#29 Jayde

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:25 PM

Great spreadsheet, I've found it extremely useful so far.

That said, I did notice that was classified as Malygos-25 in the sheet last I looked, when it appears to be a Malygos-10 drop from various reports I've seen and the Wowhead comment/datamining.

#30 Taliafears

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 08:15 PM

New release:

- fixed GemList to include all gems again
- updated Amulet of Wills (+25 dodge rating, -25 defense rating)
- added Patchwerk25 to boss list
- added parry mechanic toggle for bosses, like Patchwerk, who do not speed up attacks after parrying one of your attacks.
- adjusted mob block value to 76, appears to be the new value at 80
- adjusted AEP for various racial specials, these are still pretty intuitive so don't put too much stock in a race's AEP
- changed the proc on Darkmoon Card: Greatness to 300 Str (it picks whatever non-stamina stat is currently highest on your char)
- adjusted Executioner enchant, never got updated when ArP changed to a rating
- updated source of Barricade of Eternity to Malygos10 rather than Malygos25 (it drops in both)
- moved Base AP to the Numbers sheet, changed it to 220

#31 Vysogota

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:18 AM

- updated source of Barricade of Eternity to Malygos10 rather than Malygos25 (it drops in both)

Are you sure that it drops in both versions? As far as I know, 25-man Malygos drops only ilvl 226 items and 10-man Malygos drops only ilvl 213 items. This shield is ilvl 213, so it shouldn't drop in heroic version.

#32 pman1088

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

Incredible work!! I would like to add a suggestion:

Mining (500 HP at 450)
Weapon Chain (Hit being the Important stat I think)

#33 Opostrophe

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 12:48 PM

When weighing towards Threat and DPS, it seems like Block Value is always getting 0 weight. Shouldn't it have some relevance because of its affect on Shield Slam damage? Or am I reading something wrong?

Great work and keep it up!

#34 Taliafears

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:05 PM

I've acted on the last few postings here but have little to say that won't be in the change notes (thanks for the reports).

I wanted to quickly post a finding I just made: according to the character sheet and wowarmory, austere earthsiege's bonus armor and the toughness talent are multiplicative, so your total armor gain is 1.1*1.02=1.122 or 12.2% more armor.

#35 bung

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:38 AM

Thanks for this, but I have one question.

I do not know excell well enough to back figure where you have defined your constants like "BaseMiss" (I do appreciate your use of them to make the formulas readable). Where can I see these constants you've used?

EDIT: Never mind, I gave up too soon. Insert > Define > Names, is where I found it in openoffice3.0

#36 Taliafears

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:46 PM

The actual values to change will be on the Numbers sheet, which I try to hide before I make a release to avoid confusing people with gory details (as if the sheet isn't confusing enough). You can see it by going to Format -> Sheet -> Show (in OpenOffice), and then select "Numbers".

#37 Taliafears

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:49 PM

Are you sure that it drops in both versions? As far as I know, 25-man Malygos drops only ilvl 226 items and 10-man Malygos drops only ilvl 213 items. This shield is ilvl 213, so it shouldn't drop in heroic version.


I forgot to reply to this. There are actually quite a few Naxx items that wowhead has listed as "Drops in both Normal and Heroic". I can't personally verify that info so I simply trust that it is true. However, on the sheet I just list those items as Naxx10, because it helps you get a sense of how difficult it is to obtain, and that's primarily how I use the source column.

#38 t0x1

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:12 PM

Thank you for the hard work.

I'm surprised about the high AEP of Expertise. I thought Expertise was only to avoid being parried, avoiding the next attack time increase it causes. Am I missing something?

#39 Taliafears

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:27 PM

Expertise can have a very high value because it helps with all aspects of tanking. By reducing parries it lowers both the average damage the boss does and reduces the possibility for a burst. It also increases your TPS/DPS and if your expertise is lower than 25 or so (buffed) the sheet will show it being twice as valuable as hit (since you'd still be removing dodges).

Unfortunately there seem to be a number of bosses that do not parry-haste (due to a soft enrage or absurdly high damage like Patchwerk). We know for certain Patchwerk doesn't parry-haste, and I think Maexxna is another. I don't know which other bosses have that flag set but it's possible a good number of them do. So I am considering turning boss parry haste OFF by default, but I'm still looking around for information.

#40 Taliafears

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:36 PM

Well I've been wanting to work set bonuses into the sheet but I think I'd rather do it a little more carefully than I have time for in the next few days. So I've uploaded an update with a big fix for the threat/dps value of BV/Str.

Changes:
- repaired a problem where NxtStat BV and Str were not being added to Shield Slam damage
- added Titanium Weapon Chain
- added 500 HP bonus for miners
- adjusted Toughness to reflect that it stacks multiplicatively with Austere Earthsiege
- adjusted Austere Earthsiege's special AEP to reflect multiplicative relationship with Toughness




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