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Question Regarding Seals


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#1 eMagdAeH

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 04:48 AM

I know this was presented WAY back in beta days, and I wondered where it was at today. There was some discussion that Seal of Rightousness was doing some nasty DPS (not as much as Blood of course) in beta. With the changes that have happened over the last few weeks does that still hold true?

Summed up: Is Improved SoR better than SoComm at 80 for PvE purposes?

I'm horrible at math, but I can understand it if it is explained. I'd love to see some actual numbers on this one.

Thanks!

#2 Prinsesa

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:17 AM

This should really have been posted in the 'Simple Questions' thread.

No, Seal of Righteousness is absolutely not a viable DPS Seal. While it scaled very well during the first stages of Beta, it has been nerfed multiple times, such that it is now piss-poor DPS, and in fact leaves Holy Paladins in a bad state of soloing ability.

For PvE purposes, Seal of Blood/Martyr is far and away the BEST DPS Seal, bar none.

In a situation where SoB's recoil is a clear and present danger to the Paladin, Seal of Command should be your alternative.
"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

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#3 frmorrison

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:17 PM

As said in the Ret Spreadsheet thread, with 5/5 Seals of the Pure that makes SoR = SoC. However, SoB is the best regardless.

If you want numbers, you could find an old version of Redcape's spreadsheet (newest just shows SoB).

#4 Guest_Alarius_*

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:18 PM

This should really have been posted in the 'Simple Questions' thread.

No, Seal of Righteousness is absolutely not a viable DPS Seal. While it scaled very well during the first stages of Beta, it has been nerfed multiple times, such that it is now piss-poor DPS, and in fact leaves Holy Paladins in a bad state of soloing ability.

For PvE purposes, Seal of Blood/Martyr is far and away the BEST DPS Seal, bar none.

In a situation where SoB's recoil is a clear and present danger to the Paladin, Seal of Command should be your alternative.


Would you include soloing under your PVE statement and use SotM as a priority seal? I've been sticking to SoC lately but have yet tried testing SotM exclusively for soloing.

#5 frmorrison

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 08:34 PM

Would you include soloing under your PVE statement and use SotM as a priority seal? I've been sticking to SoC lately but have yet tried testing SotM exclusively for soloing.


I prefer SoC for soloing (it is unglyphed, still prefer it) and of course for PvP. I don't want to worry about healing myself, especially since I am on a PvP server I want to be at full health.

#6 Valerys

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:28 AM

I've been leveling to 80 using SoB exclusively (SoL when soloing those 3-man elites), judging Light, and had no health problems at all. Occasionally it would drop to something like 9k/12k after a fight, a FoL or two takes care of that.

#7 Malleus

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:33 PM

I've been using Seal of the Martyr and judging Light, and I've often finished fights with more health than when I started them without ever casting a Flash or using a potion. Between Divine Storm, JoL and plate armour, it really is not a problem.

#8 Prinsesa

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 03:47 AM

To add to the previous posters, even if SOB ever deals so much damage to you that you need some healing, Art of War's instant FOL proc lets you do this without having to stand still, which keeps things moving.

I absolutely recommend SOB, even for leveling. There's a case to be made for SOC occasionally dropping a mob before you know what's what, but I prefer consistency in my killing speed.
"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

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#9 Usernaem

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 12:39 AM

Blood/Martyr

End.

EDIT: However I believe someone was testing something about Corruption/Vengeance for 5 stacks and switching to Blood/Martyr. But I have no idea of the results. Known as "Seal Twisting"

#10 eMagdAeH

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 07:46 AM

I think everyone is aware that SoB/M is top for PvE DPS, but I was asking about the alternative when SoB/M couldn't be used. I meant to imply that when I said, "There was some discussion that Seal of Rightousness was doing some nasty DPS (not as much as Blood of course) in beta." Apologies to all for any confusion on that.

Thank you, frmorrison, for the clarity...I have a hard time processing all the stuff on Redcape's spreadsheet and just end up confused.

Blood/Martyr

End.

EDIT: However I believe someone was testing something about Corruption/Vengeance for 5 stacks and switching to Blood/Martyr. But I have no idea of the results. Known as "Seal Twisting"


Unfortunately, seal twisting ends up at a loss of something like 200 DPS. I can't remember the exact number but somone had worked out the math that the mana/GCD used on twisting ended up with a net DPS loss.

#11 Merovengian

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 07:48 AM

Blood/Martyr

End.

EDIT: However I believe someone was testing something about Corruption/Vengeance for 5 stacks and switching to Blood/Martyr. But I have no idea of the results. Known as "Seal Twisting"


Assuming a boss encounter, which is the only situation where this even becomes viable, your already down 2 Blood judgements, the extra dmg on Cs/Ds to get the 5 stack going.. then reseal and start dpsing.

the mana consumption of 'seal twisting' is so penalizing that it becomes unsustainable over the duration of a bossfight, assuming no AoE dmg.

Ret dps is currently designed around a sustainable non-aoe encounter rotation of Blood/Martyr Judge/Cs/Ds.. if you add anything more than that you will have mana issues. Holy Wrath/Exorcism when available or consecrate all get you in this boat. If you add the mana drain of seal twisting your talking about just meleeing as you sit there OOM loosing the dps meters.

Blood, end of story.




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