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#41 leithkin

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 10:04 AM

I also intend to keep Typhoon as it is, unglyphed. The mention of Gluth and the uses on stray puppy chow illustrates my thoughts on the matter well: with its knockback, Typhoon is a tool as well as a good AOE damage spell. For the most part, the knockback has not been an issue for me in any of the 25 man Wrath raids, and there are situations in which it is useful. Were I to glyph Typhoon, that would be one less tool at my disposal, and it's important to remember that while the role of Balance is DPS, we should not focus on DPS to the exclusion of the formidable utility and versatility we can provide. ...besides which, as mentioned above, the glyph doesn't even improve Typhoon's damage. I can't run out of mana if I'm trying to, so that's just not a consideration.

My jury's still out on the Starfall glyph. If it is indeed a minor glyph (here's hoping!) I might give it a whirl, but yeah, the decreased range has its plusses and minuses.

#42 Arentios

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 02:51 PM

Updated with 3.1 glyphs (Typhoon and new Starfall). Neither of these are learnable on the PTR, only datamined, so their actual effects once they're put in might be altered from the current values.

Neither of these glyphs impresses me much, they're both highly situational, unless Ulduar has a plethora of AoE encounters. Unless you change glyphs on an encounter by encounter basis, I just can't see them getting much use compared to the current line-up of IS/MF/SF.

#43 Adoriele

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 02:54 PM

Updated with 3.1 glyphs (Typhoon and new Starfall). Neither of these are learnable on the PTR, only datamined, so their actual effects once they're put in might be altered from the current values.

Neither of these glyphs impresses me much, they're both highly situational, unless Ulduar has a plethora of AoE encounters. Unless you change glyphs on an encounter by encounter basis, I just can't see them getting much use compared to the current line-up of IS/MF/SF.


Uh, Starfall is high enough DPET to warrant casting on cooldown. Lower the cooldown by half, and the benefit of the talent goes up. Since it's worth ~63 DPS (in my current, nowhere-near-BiS gear), that makes the glyph also worth ~63 DPS. Which puts it about even with the Starfire glyph if you're keeping 100% MF uptime (and hence clipping MF).

#44 Daylis

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:40 PM

Speaking of only trash, i strongly suspect there'll be less AOEing going on. There was a blue post a while back, basically saying they're looking to introduce PvE crowd control back in the game.

In fact, it may very well be there is going to be more CCing going on on boss encounters as well. Since a lot of player CC is damage-interruptible, starfall draws the short straw there.

#45 Lord BEEF

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 06:41 PM

I imagine they also intend to improve the coefficient on starfall as well. It should be tested if it's changed already on PTR

#46 artic

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 07:51 PM

If starfall coefficient does go up this patch, combined with the Glyph if that to does go in, then I will quickly drop the IIS glyph in favor of starfall.

Need to see what the T8 set bonus is though. ATM we're gonna be losing 10% from T7 making the change over on IS. Losing the 30% from Glyph could greatly limit how often I even bother to keep it up. If T8 promotes IS upkeep to gain dps, then IIS glyph may still prove worth it.

#47 Erdluf

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:35 PM

I imagine they also intend to improve the coefficient on starfall as well. It should be tested if it's changed already on PTR


The coefficient on live is already way up from the old reported values (2.3% per big star, 0.5% per splash). Current values are about 5% and 1.2%. That puts the full-duration coefficient on a single target at around 60% (compared to about 74% for Wrath+WoC+Moonfury, or 19.3% for Typhoon).

#48 dukes

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:00 AM

Need to see what the T8 set bonus is though.


I've heard that they're likely to keep the set bonuses the same throughout tiers now, with the ability to mix pieces from each set and still get the bonuses (I believe the S1-4 PvP sets did this?).

#49 Guest_AlinaSedai_*

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:29 AM

I took the Typhoon glyph. I don't pvp much on my druid, and Typhoon is useful on sarth for adds. The tanks in my guild get annoyed with Knockback, so I figured why not take it. It doesn't really make that big a difference anyways. As for Gluth, Atleast, in my guild, the adds rarely get into the raid so its np, and if one does, I usually just root it, go bear, Taunt it, and pull it back to the kiting tank/hunter.

#50 Cdin

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:51 PM

I've heard that they're likely to keep the set bonuses the same throughout tiers now, with the ability to mix pieces from each set and still get the bonuses (I believe the S1-4 PvP sets did this?).


This quote for Ghostcrawler suggests the set bonuses will change.

The Shadow Ulduar 4 piece set bonus is pretty sweet too.


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#51 Nyrathalnian

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:08 PM

Another balance druid and myself have been going back and forth on what will be the best raiding glyphs for patch 3.1. With all the Starfall changes to the cd which will make Starfall a more valid source of improved burst damage and natures grace procs for balance druids rotation. I feel like the Starfire glyph and Insect swarm glyphs are a must have for raiding though it seems I may drop the Moonfire glyph and take up the Starfall glyph to try and max overall damage.

#52 Moonkin Kai

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:50 PM

Why would you drop the MF glyph?

#53 Nyrathalnian

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 01:33 PM

I would drop the Moonfire Glyph because it is cast so frequently anyway that the initial damage when it critical strikes which is more often than not seems to have greater overall damage than its increased tick damage. At least testing it out it seems so thus far.

#54 skeldi

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 03:03 PM

If more often than not, your moonfire does not last the full duration, then yes, unglyphing moonfire is a good idea.

#55 Nyrathalnian

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 03:22 PM

As the Starfall glyph is reducing the cool down on Starfall for 3.1 to one minute may make it a better glyph than Moonfire. Because Starfall procs Natures grace to improve the haste of the other damage spells cast. Unless the Insect swarm glyph should be dropped instead of the Moonfire glyph.

#56 Eilt

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 04:16 PM

I would drop the Moonfire Glyph because it is cast so frequently anyway that the initial damage when it critical strikes which is more often than not seems to have greater overall damage than its increased tick damage. At least testing it out it seems so thus far.


On this, it is important to remember that the frequency of casting MF is not really an issue. It is the number of ticks., If you glyph MF and it ticks 3 times the damage from a non-glyphed MF balnce out. Every tick over the 3rd is a DPS gain when Moonfire is glyphed.

Now if this is enough to keep it above a 60 second Starfall I do not know, but just because you cast MF frequently does not mean the glyph loses worth.

#57 Moonkin Kai

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 04:04 PM

By casting Moonfire frequently you mean your clipping your dots? That in itself is a dps loss, not only that, you have the Starfire glyph, therefore, every Starfire is increasing your MF duration, making Moonfire glyph that much more powerful. SF and MF glyphs work well together. Depending on how 4 set t8 works out, maybe Starfall will overtake Insect Swarm glyph but obviously, its way too early to predict at the moment.

#58 Adoriele

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 04:29 PM

By casting Moonfire frequently you mean your clipping your dots? That in itself is a dps loss, not only that, you have the Starfire glyph, therefore, every Starfire is increasing your MF duration, making Moonfire glyph that much more powerful. SF and MF glyphs work well together. Depending on how 4 set t8 works out, maybe Starfall will overtake Insect Swarm glyph but obviously, its way too early to predict at the moment.


Uhhh. The 4T8 bonus will have no effect on how good of a glyph IS is. The two have nothing to do with each other. As it stands in 3.1, the IS glyph will be worth ~double the Starfall glyph before taking into account that Starfire will greatly increase the uptime of NG during its duration, but that will be a fairly minor benefit.

[edit]Nyr is correct that the biggest contender for swapping out is the Moonfire Glyph, which still produces slightly more DPS than the Starfall glyph for a one-MF rotation. For a 2-MF rotation, you'd swap out the Starfire Glyph (since you generally wouldn't need the extra ticks).

#59 Moonkin Kai

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:43 PM

What exactly is a 1-MF or 2-MF rotation? And what I meant was, as a spell, 4t8 seems like Blizz's way of giving IS a usefulness, without that set bonus, would IS be worth using in a Lunar Eclipse rotation 3.1? And if not, thats what I was leaning towards by suggesting that the IS glyph may not be as useful.

#60 Adoriele

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:57 PM

What exactly is a 1-MF or 2-MF rotation? And what I meant was, as a spell, 4t8 seems like Blizz's way of giving IS a usefulness, without that set bonus, would IS be worth using in a Lunar Eclipse rotation 3.1? And if not, thats what I meant by the IS glyphs usefulness.


IS was worth using without the glyph already, though it was pretty low on the totem pole. The glyph made it a no-brainer. And now, in 3.1, IS is being buffed. So yeah, you could drop the Glyph, except that a glyph that was worth ~80 DPS is now worth ~110 due to the buffs, so is even more mandatory.

1- and 2-MF refer to how many MFs you cast per Eclipse.




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