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Restoration Glyphs


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#21 mandala

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:56 PM

personally, i cant seem to part with the Glyph of Healing Touch, just because Nourish is just soo.... lack luster, i was hoping it would be "OMG THE CURE!" to resto healing, but instead it just is something else druids needs to watch =/
HT + glyph, (when talented) is a bit more mana than nourish, but also heals more, and right now, at .95 sec cast for me.. its fantastic when the tank is tanking a ton of damage (and for right now with heros and what not, its moooore than needed O_o) i feel that in raids i wont really be using nourish so much, just because vs. other healers... its not fast enough =/

As far as glyphs go--HT, regrowth, and swiftmend for me :D

#22 Norfair

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

Anyone want to tackle a new "Raiding as a Tree" thread?


I think the idea of the new class forums is to NOT make a big thread, but divide the discussion into several topics. I myself am considering opening a Restoration gear itemization thread soon, as I think this has changed drastically compared to the end of TBC.

As far as glyphs go, I haven't been able to get my hands on the Swiftmend one yet, but I think this one is kind of "mandatory". During the past week I already have situations where I think "damn wish I had that glyph right now". I am using the Lifebloom currently and I really like that one as well. Together with Nature's Splendor you get so much time between refreshing Lifebloom, it makes things so more interesting compared to the old 7-sec window.

For the third glyph, I'm not sure yet. I don't find myself using Regrowth that much anymore. I would only get the benefit from this glyph from re-applying the HoT on the tank. Then again, the other option is the Innervate glyph (which I always cast on myself due to poor gear), and without it I already receive a full mana bar. Seems not very useful to me right now either. Let's just hope a WG or Nourish glyph will be introduced soon.

#23 ithecho84

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 04:16 AM

Which is exactly what makes this glyph so powerful, as you only need the o5sr-effect on you, not the enhanced regen any more. My innervate goes mostly to priests, especially in CoH-intense encounters.

however, so far I've been using swiftmend and regrowth for the obvious reasons, and I am very convinced.


I don't really ever see Innervate replacing the Lifebloom, Swiftmend, Regrowth or even Rejuvenation glyphs, so it won't even be an issue.


Question about the glyphs though, will the Regrowth glyph affect the amount Swiftmend will heal for?

#24 Anaram

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:27 AM

Question about the glyphs though, will the Regrowth glyph affect the amount Swiftmend will heal for?


My information is that it doesn't affect swiftmend in any way which is pretty consistent with how swiftmend works (the actual strength of the hot is irrelevant, you can swiftmend a feral's rejuvenation and still get same result as swiftmending your own).

#25 MystRayne

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:37 AM

Which benefits a druid more ... seems a part timer druid has decided that I am stupid to stack Spirit which improves healing too as far as I know and can read from stats

From all other advice given via EJ - it has always said Spirit

#26 Arentios

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 02:31 PM

The swiftmend description has been fixed.

The value of the rejuvenation glyph is straightforward to model. Assuming Nature's Splendor, if you have it proc once per rejuv, it amounts to an 8.33% healing increase (1/6 * 1/2) increasing by 8.33% every time it tics, upto a maximum of 50%. However, the condition of the proc and standard group healing behavior means that you will rarely see it proc more than once or twice. For raid healing if you spend the time to rejuv up many people after a raid damage event you may not see it at all on many of the targets. For tank healing with very spiky damage (such as Patchwerk) the value probably goes up, while for raid healing with very smooth damage (Sapphiron) the value is likely minimal.

Comparitively, assuming optimal lifebloom rolling and no banking (that is to say, you always reroll it with less than a second left on all targets), the glyph amounts to approximately a 10% mana cost reduction in lifebloom, decreasing the further from optimal your behavior ends up being on a given encounter. If you never reroll it within that last second, it becomes worthless for rolling. If you simply cast a single bloom on a target, it amounts to an 11% healing increase to the HoT portion.

#27 Moknim

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 03:48 PM

Which benefits a druid more ... seems a part timer druid has decided that I am stupid to stack Spirit which improves healing too as far as I know and can read from stats

From all other advice given via EJ - it has always said Spirit


This is a glyph discussion - this would be much more appropriate for the "Simple Questions Simple answers" thread. But, since the changes to spirit (which is a while ago now) you are much better off stacking spirit. Its what your Tier gear will give anyway.

#28 ithecho84

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:33 PM

My information is that it doesn't affect swiftmend in any way which is pretty consistent with how swiftmend works (the actual strength of the hot is irrelevant, you can swiftmend a feral's rejuvenation and still get same result as swiftmending your own).


Ah ok, good to know.

The swiftmend description has been fixed.

The value of the rejuvenation glyph is straightforward to model. Assuming Nature's Splendor, if you have it proc once per rejuv, it amounts to an 8.33% healing increase (1/6 * 1/2) increasing by 8.33% every time it tics, upto a maximum of 50%. However, the condition of the proc and standard group healing behavior means that you will rarely see it proc more than once or twice. For raid healing if you spend the time to rejuv up many people after a raid damage event you may not see it at all on many of the targets. For tank healing with very spiky damage (such as Patchwerk) the value probably goes up, while for raid healing with very smooth damage (Sapphiron) the value is likely minimal.

Comparitively, assuming optimal lifebloom rolling and no banking (that is to say, you always reroll it with less than a second left on all targets), the glyph amounts to approximately a 10% mana cost reduction in lifebloom, decreasing the further from optimal your behavior ends up being on a given encounter. If you never reroll it within that last second, it becomes worthless for rolling. If you simply cast a single bloom on a target, it amounts to an 11% healing increase to the HoT portion.


Very interesting. Thanks for the information. Given what I've seen from my raids thus far, Lifebloom will be staying and Regrowth will replace Rejuvenation (as soon as someone on my server discovers it :( ).

#29 nau

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:39 PM

So, to reiterate, my current glyph set up:
Innervate
Swiftmend
Regrowth


This is the set up I want to be at. Unfortunately no one seems to have learned the swiftmend glyph on my server yet. :( I don't see myself replacing innervate glyph for a very long time, or ever unless the raid content changes dramatically.

#30 gardenborn

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:00 PM

to add more data to the discussion: we just downed malygos hc (horde first on blackrock eu), the wws is here:
Wow Web Stats
it is a fight where, as you can see, rejuv is used intensly; plus, it is also a fight, where there is a lot of dmg on the raid. but still though there is a lot of dmg, and though rejuv is used a lot, the glyph just makes up only 1% of the total heal, which is ridiculous. I will wait for 2-3 more raids, but atm it looks all like switching to innervate. The other glyphs were regrowth and swiftmend.

#31 Raikagi

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:05 PM

I'll be using Swiftmend, Regrowth and Innervate glyphs as well. To me the extra versatility of being able to throw innervate on someone who might need it even more than me and still recieve a pretty decent benefit from it myself is very useful.

I'll also be using the Glyph of Unburdened Rebirth for one of my minors, here's hoping they make one that removes the reagent requirement on Gift of the Wild too.

Anyone want to tackle a new "Raiding as a Tree" thread?


There's an absolutely fantastic thread in the Priest forum by Constantius that keeps a bunch of useful info in it. It'd be great if someone with a bit of experience could do the same for Resto here.

#32 Playered

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:04 AM

I'm still rather fond of the Rejuvenation Glyph for 10mans/heroics.
It shines on Malygos and Sapph where there is plenty of raid damage, it gives me a security knowing that people should really never die to periodic damage with a RJ on them and gives me time to manage things (especially on Vortex).

For 25mans it still feels pretty useless due to the excess of heals floating around but not every Glyph is ment to be about catering to 25man raiding (ie: HT Glyph).


Regarding the new mega thread... we aren't ment to do them anymore.
Having a gear thread, a mechanics thread and a talent discussion thread all separate will keep them cleaner and easier to access for people seeking information - it was annoying having the same questions pop up every 3 pages because people didn't read more than the first and last page of the thread (and who could blame them on some threads).

#33 Anaram

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:18 AM

Personally I like the rejuvenation glyph quite a bit. Even if the healing numbers do stay relatively small, you can at least be assured that whenever the glyph "procs" it's extremely likely to be that the proc is very useful. Currently regrowth doesn't make a big enough portion of my healing to really justify glyphing it up, especially seeing how nourish is faster and more reliable HPS for tank healing. Innervate glyph is something I'll consider if/when my regeneration reaches such amounts that I can reliably skip using innervate on myself.

#34 khel

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:03 PM

Personally I like the rejuvenation glyph quite a bit. Even if the healing numbers do stay relatively small, you can at least be assured that whenever the glyph "procs" it's extremely likely to be that the proc is very useful. Currently regrowth doesn't make a big enough portion of my healing to really justify glyphing it up, especially seeing how nourish is faster and more reliable HPS for tank healing. Innervate glyph is something I'll consider if/when my regeneration reaches such amounts that I can reliably skip using innervate on myself.


With my current gear set my calcs indicated that casting regrowth rather than nourish was not only better HPS, but better HPM, and that was with completely ignoring the refresh of the HOT effect and Living Seed. This is most likely different with 4-set t7, but until then I see very few cases where Nourish is the best choice.

#35 Fallenangel

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:22 PM

The problem with the innervate glyph is that you're giving up too much by innervating someone else. So instead of gaining ~15k mana, you give it to someone else and end up with a gain of like 3k. The loss of 12k mana isn't something you can easily overcome with a bit of gear. It's a bit like having a shadow-priest pre 3.0 - either you have one and can spam freely and stay at 90% mana, or you don't have one, have to conserve, pot and have mana issues.
As such I chose Swiftmend, Regrowth and Lifebloom as my glyphs. The lifebloom glyph may feel a bit weak compared to NS, but that says more about the strength of that talent than on the glyph.

#36 Anaram

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:24 PM

With my current gear set my calcs indicated that casting regrowth rather than nourish was not only better HPS, but better HPM, and that was with completely ignoring the refresh of the HOT effect and Living Seed. This is most likely different with 4-set t7, but until then I see very few cases where Nourish is the best choice.


Regrowth is better HPS and HPM if you don't require *reliable* results. Problem is how big a part of regrowth's HPS is dictated by crits. A crit not only heals for 50% more (~100% more with living seed) but also speeds the next regrowth by 33%. Trouble is there's such a huge variation there. If regrowth has 4000 non-crit healing then in 6 seconds you might get 12k healing from 3 noncrits (3*4000) or you might get 32k healing from 4 crits (4*8000)*. On beta I lost tanks a few too many times by simply having poor luck with RNG while spamming regrowth (nourish still cost too much at that time to use though).

I'd argue that refreshing the hot is detrimental effect to spamming regrowth - you only need one cast per 20-30 seconds to maintain that, I'm not questioning that this particular cast wouldn't be worth it. During the above 6 second window regrowth spam will prevent regrowth ticks while nourish will allow those to continue (2 ticks of, say, 800 each).

Numbers change if you get regrowth glyph, but that comes at an additional cost of a glyph slot. Even with regrowth glyph I believe that nourish has a better guaranteed rate though it's certainly cutting close.

* I slightly simplified there, first cast of course depends on what happened before the time window and last one affects what happens after it. Chained regrowth crits are also likely to waste living seeds due to overwriting them.

#37 Rhaegal

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:32 PM

In choosing my glyphs, I'm really trying to think about how they work together, too. You can't just look at them in a vacuum. I have the improved Regrowth glyph currently and love it (a timely Regrowth refresh crit for almost 8k and the ~2400 Living Seed proc immediately following it has already saved the tank on some bad pulls in heroics that should have been a wipe). The problem I have with it by itself is that if Swiftmend chooses Regrowth over Rejuv due to the time remaining on the two HoTs, I lose the effect of the Regrowth glyph. The Swiftmend glyph (once I find someone on my server who has it) will completely eliminate that problem, strengthening the Regrowth glyph in the process. The interplay between these two glyphs is not to be overlooked.

The Innervate vs. Lifebloom question I'm still undecided on. I've definitely been using my Innervates on myself in heroics, so mana is somewhat of a concern. Could I use my innervate on other mana users and still come out with enough, with the glyph? Maybe. I certainly don't need the self-Innervate bonus from the glyph. But there's also the sort of "hidden bonus" to the Lifebloom glyph. Yes, the most direct benefits of the LB glyph are the extra throughput from having more time between refreshes and the extra HPM from getting an extra tick out of the cast. However, with just Nature's Splendor, the extra OO5SR regen I get during lulls in healing is significant. The difference between one second of OO5SR regen with a 7 second refresh cycle and three seconds of it with a 9 second cycle means that the last couple mobs of any pull are almost pure regen time for me, and I get extra regen time on bosses when the tank gets a string of dodges and parries. If the extra second on Lifebloom yields at least 20 extra seconds every five minutes of full OO5SR regen, then it's not only given you back as much mana as the Innervate glyph would, but it's also allowed for more throughput in situations when you do need it.

Right now I'm leaning toward Regrowth/Swiftmend (the obvious choices) and Lifebloom, because of that.
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#38 Guest_Aetos_*

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:51 PM

Has anyone tried multiples of glyps such as innervate, rejuvenation, lifebloom, or regrowth? I know a druid that was running two rebirth glyphs so that when he battle rezed someone, they would come back with full health. It would be interesting to see how the mechanics of running multiple glyphs affect it.

#39 Rhaegal

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:06 PM

Glyph effects do not stack when you equip two of the same one. The fact that they're not unique-equipped is unfortunate, but having two of the same wastes a glyph slot.
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#40 Xynora

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:17 PM

to add more data to the discussion: we just downed malygos hc (horde first on blackrock eu), the wws is here:
Wow Web Stats
it is a fight where, as you can see, rejuv is used intensly; plus, it is also a fight, where there is a lot of dmg on the raid. but still though there is a lot of dmg, and though rejuv is used a lot, the glyph just makes up only 1% of the total heal, which is ridiculous. I will wait for 2-3 more raids, but atm it looks all like switching to innervate. The other glyphs were regrowth and swiftmend.


Although you may be right and the rejuv glyph may not be worth it, percentage of your healing done isn't always the most accurate measure of usefulness. The rejuv glyph only takes effect in tight situations - when the target is under 50% health. If someone is already under 50%, there's a good chance any extra healing is welcome.

If I had to choose between 2 skills (purely theoretical situation) - one of them was 5% of my total healing but was only ever used to bring the tank from 90% to 100% health, and the other one was only 1% of my total healing but it kicked in whenever the tank was low on health, I would choose the latter. Total healing done isn't always the best measure.




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