Jump to content


Photo

Shadowpriest Theory Craft - 3.2.2 Edition!


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1008 replies to this topic

#21 Althor

Althor

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 22 November 2008 - 04:29 AM

Inner Focus explicitly states it only increases crit chance if the spell is capable of critting which our DoTs cannot.

I've macroed my Devouring Plauge with Inner Focus btw as Devouring Plague is still an expensive spell to cast even if it's cost per second isn't as bad as some other spells.

BTW, it's Glyph of Fading that I feel is more useful than Glyph of Fade. Glyph of Fade increases the duration of the Fade effect but also increases the cooldown. Glyph of Fading lowers the mana cost of Fade.

I agree 100% on the sheer uselessness of Shadow Affinity (except maybe with a really, really bad tank in a pug). Fade alone is usually enough to give the tank time to pick up loose mobs. If that fails there's Dispersion for a few more seconds. And if that's still not enough, well, I'm a Night-Elf....;P (with the current mechanics if threat ever did become an issue I'd see the hard-core guild's shadow priest all rerolling Night-Elf if Alliance).

As for mana concerns there have been a few fights where I've run into some mana issues despite having AI, BoW and MotW, but that's probably because I'm not agressive enough on my use of Shadowfiend or Dispersion and because JoW rarely sees close to a 100% uptime and I'm probably lacking Mana Spring totem etc.

One thing to keep in mind regarding Devouring Plague....don't forget that a number of guilds won't yet have Unholy Deathknights in the raid. And those Unholy Deathknights boost our Devouring Plague DPS per tick by 30% thanks to Crypt Fever. What's more, with one of their abilities or talents (I'm no expert) they can *spread* our Devouring Plague to nearby mobs turning it into a ghetto AoE DoT. When combined with Mind Sear that can become pretty potent. (As if Mind Sear wasn't potent enough).

As for Blackout with Mind Sear: My testing on beta was definitely showing Blackout procs on the test dummies.

#22 Manes

Manes

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 24 November 2008 - 12:12 AM

I can't make sense of the tailoring embroidery, ebonweave seems useless for dps since it's a mana regen enchant, with lightweave embroidery being the only "dps" tailor enchant. Does lightweave outweigh the dps benefits of 23 haste?

#23 Worshaka

Worshaka

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 24 November 2008 - 08:18 AM

I can't make sense of the tailoring embroidery, ebonweave seems useless for dps since it's a mana regen enchant, with lightweave embroidery being the only "dps" tailor enchant. Does lightweave outweigh the dps benefits of 23 haste?


I'd really like to see some data on this, the best raid gear thread in shadowpriest.com only has the haste enchant listed... is the tailoring enchant worth it?

#24 Bartlebum

Bartlebum

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:55 PM

See, I really have to disagree on the beginning rotation. Casting SW: D before Mind Blast seems much more worthwhile. First, it can be casted on the run while getting in position. Second, the 2 extra Shadow Weaving stacks would benefit Mind Blast substantially. Casting Mind Blast with 4 stacks over casting SW: D with 3 stacks seems like a no brainer. Also, no point really keeping SW: D in rotation anymore since the damage it does just isn't enough. From personal experience i've only seen it do about 3-4%. I'm sure with the glyph and 4 pc. T7 it would seem more worth it but the numbers have to be run before i believe it.

I whole heartedly agree that dispersion should 100% be in every shadow priest spec. It's a single point that pays for itself. Use it on the run to gain mana back or even as an "oh shit" button if you can't get behind the block on Saph or while running between shields on Malygos.

Yes, Inner Focus won't benefit the damage done on DoT's but if you're waiting a few seconds for that dispersion to come back up or Shadowfiend CD, it's pretty worth it, especially on a MB to get the IST up and make sure replenishment is still up for the raid.

Also, I've tried a spec with Shadow Affinity and a spec without. Bottom line: useless talent. There is no point having it really in a raid. With recent threat levels, even on a fight where threat is completely reset it's still quite easy to just fade to give the tank some help.

Also, as far as the original post goes, I would weigh intelligence over spirit at least in entry gear. Just like in BC, we have mana issues unless we're geared. However, unlike in BC, most mana return buffs now occurs not on a set amount of mana but on a set percentage of your mana. So, having a bigger mana pool, for mana return purposes, would benefit a person more than having more in-combat regen. Although you can't completely ignore spirit, and with the itemization in WotLK it's almost impossible to since every gear we run into has a TON of spirit, but intellect is still very nice to look into.

#25 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 02:52 PM

Spirit increases damage though, intellect does not.

#26 Althor

Althor

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 03:08 PM

Spirit increases damage though, intellect does not.


Incorrect.

Intellect boosts your crit rate which has a direct effect on damage.
It also (by virtue of increasing your crit rate) increases the uptime on Improved Spirit Tap. Which in turn boosts your average spirit. Which of course (thanks to the glyph and the talent) boosts the amount of +spellpower you have which boosts your DPS.

Simcraft is giving the following rough "AEP" numbers for a roughly Naxx25 geared Priest:
The value of each stat compared to spellpower.
1 spellpower = 1 spellpower (obviously)
1 hit = 1.14 spellpower (up to cap)
1 crit rating = 0.61 spellpower
1 haste rating = 0.56 spellpower
1 spirit = 0.21 spellpower
1 int = 0.19 spellpower


Now obviously things aren't as simple as just that of course, but around the Naxx gear level such numbers can be a handy guide when weighing up items if you don't feel like running SimulationCraft for each new gear set.

#27 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 03:41 PM

Incorrect.

Intellect boosts your crit rate which has a direct effect on damage.
It also (by virtue of increasing your crit rate) increases the uptime on Improved Spirit Tap. Which in turn boosts your average spirit. Which of course (thanks to the glyph and the talent) boosts the amount of +spellpower you have which boosts your DPS.

Simcraft is giving the following rough "AEP" numbers for a roughly Naxx25 geared Priest:
The value of each stat compared to spellpower.
1 spellpower = 1 spellpower (obviously)
1 hit = 1.14 spellpower (up to cap)
1 crit rating = 0.61 spellpower
1 haste rating = 0.56 spellpower
1 spirit = 0.21 spellpower
1 int = 0.19 spellpower


Now obviously things aren't as simple as just that of course, but around the Naxx gear level such numbers can be a handy guide when weighing up items if you don't feel like running SimulationCraft for each new gear set.


Excellent, thanks - you are of course correct, I didn't consider the effect of int on crit. I am very surprised to see that it is so close though: 1 spirit gives 10% damage, and improved spirit tap/shadowform glyph, that increases by a fair bit more. Our int to crit conversion used to be abysmal, so I am very surprised to see it so high.

#28 LucidityAxel

LucidityAxel

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 183 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:14 PM

For those of you curious about what a Lightweave Embroidery can do, here's a parse from our 25-man Naxx last night:

Wow Web Stats

The holy bolt proc was about 1% of my damage, so we can ballpark it at ~30 dps.

Per simulationcraft, 23 haste rating (for a gear set much better than what I currently have) is 23 * 0.7 = 16.1 dps.

The embroidery looks to be a clear winner here.

#29 Snowy

Snowy

    Mitt Romney?

  • Moderators
  • 10,255 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:16 PM

The reason why it's so close is spirit is a crap stat for DPS, it's not really a statement on intellect being so high.

Improved Spirit Tap is mostly garbage if you don't need the mana regen. Even if you have 700 spirit buffed, a crit is gaining you a whopping 7 spellpower.

#30 Xantu

Xantu

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:35 PM

Wouldn't Inner Focus be better than one extra point in Blackout for AoE situations if used with Mind Sear?

#31 Nichi

Nichi

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:37 PM

There was something that I personally had seen mentioned about SW:D. This is just what I do personally and it seems to fit well with me. It seems that once every other rotation (after the initial Shadow Weaving build) you can force MB and SWD into the same GCD. (this occurs immediately after reapplying VT) and then I resume MF while other spells are on cooldown.

Was just wondering if anyone saw benefit to this or ran a similar "Rotation" (I use the term rotation because even though it is priority based, some sort of spell rotation will always appear ^_^)

#32 deadjon

deadjon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 24 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:41 PM

The reason why it's so close is spirit is a crap stat for DPS, it's not really a statement on intellect being so high.

Improved Spirit Tap is mostly garbage if you don't need the mana regen. Even if you have 700 spirit buffed, a crit is gaining you a whopping 7 spellpower.


Mostly garbage and still better than any points in blackout (for raiding that is.)

#33 etrnl

etrnl

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 126 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:48 PM

There was something that I personally had seen mentioned about SW:D. This is just what I do personally and it seems to fit well with me. It seems that once every other rotation (after the initial Shadow Weaving build) you can force MB and SWD into the same GCD. (this occurs immediately after reapplying VT) and then I resume MF while other spells are on cooldown.

Was just wondering if anyone saw benefit to this or ran a similar "Rotation" (I use the term rotation because even though it is priority based, some sort of spell rotation will always appear ^_^)


I haven't been able to do this at all... MB is a 1.5s cast, are you sure you're just not chaining both back to back? When I use SW:D is typically when I open up (VT,MB,SW:D). MB and SW:D will both land at the theoretical same time, but they will still have their own GCD.

#34 Nichi

Nichi

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:02 PM

It's entirely possible that chaining is what's occurring but there seems to be no delay at all. If I am actually forcing them into one GCD it would because i'm using an instant cast immediately following a cast. (That's the reason I posted it here =) to stand corrected ^_^)

#35 etrnl

etrnl

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 126 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:22 PM

I've always found myself having to wait the GCD out after the combo, from what I can recall, at least. I'll play around tonight and see if that does occur.

#36 Nurru

Nurru

    Mike Tyson

  • Guild Members
  • 12,235 posts

Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:26 PM

It's not focusing them into one GCD. MB is a 1.5 cast so it receives the same amount of haste as your GCD. Only two possibilities exist:

SWD, <GCD> MB(GCD overlaps) or MB(GCD overlaps) SWD <GCD>

They are exactly the same from a dps perspective.

#37 nero

nero

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:46 AM

Does anyone know if the Glyph of SW:P stacks with Twisted faith additively or multiplicatively :)?

#38 Shych

Shych

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:20 AM

Hey, I couldn't post a new thread, so I will write here instead, since it is about raiding.


I wonder if there are any good addons for a shadowpriest? I would for example like an addon that shows dots on all mobs i have dots on like focus targets or something, that show an icon and name, and debuffs under them (also bosses), but only your debuffs and not others. Or something that makes me see debuffs easier, cause with wow-standard setting(which I am using now) it's really hard keeping such things up.

Thankful for all answers or ideas!


Greetings
Feiszt
Shadowpriest.

(this account was created when i played my rogue)

#39 Pluff

Pluff

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:05 AM

Hey, I couldn't post a new thread, so I will write here instead, since it is about raiding.


I wonder if there are any good addons for a shadowpriest? I would for example like an addon that shows dots on all mobs i have dots on like focus targets or something, that show an icon and name, and debuffs under them (also bosses), but only your debuffs and not others. Or something that makes me see debuffs easier, cause with wow-standard setting(which I am using now) it's really hard keeping such things up.

Thankful for all answers or ideas!


Greetings
Feiszt
Shadowpriest.

(this account was created when i played my rogue)

try DoTimer

#40 Meltface

Meltface

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 46 posts

Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:16 PM

Regarding Shadow Word: Death, I'll note that Mind Flay seems to beat Death on paper, but it also depends on gearing levels. I want to see actual WWS reports to decide when its worth casting. My suspicion is that if you have 2 seconds until your next "cooldown" and can't cast anything but Death and a clipped Mind Flay, then Mind Flay is the right choice, regardless of gear levels. But if you only have 1.5 seconds, Death will be the right choice at certain gear levels. Again, this is just speculation, and we need actual data to make this decision.


I'd actually say that in practice, SWD is the correct choice in both situations.

Mind Flay "clipping" is dead with the current Mind Flay implementation. The ticks no longer occur at even intervals on the channel so you can't clip with any precision.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users