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WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion


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#21 _t4k

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:36 PM

Hi, I'm wondering if the spreadsheets properly calculate using a slower dagger in the OH as PVE mutilate spec, givin it vastly outweighs say a 1.4 dagger in damage range. I'm just wondering how to know when which is better, and would there ever be a case in which slower is better in MH, for PVE.

#22 Dominus

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:56 PM

Well, you could go Fist/Sword, MH and OH , but in order to get both 5/5 Sword Spec and 5/5 CQC, you have to both drop all 4 of your previous "flex" points, and furthermore drop 1 point in a talent that does give a DPS boost. You'll do all that, but I'm not quite sure there will be a noticeable DPS difference, which is why I'd say it's more preferable to just stay with Fist/Dagger.


You also need to consider how Combat Potency scales with Sinister Strike damage. Estimates in BC gear were that .1 speed faster was worth roughly 10 DPS. This is only going to get bigger in Lich King as weapons become stronger and using a special like SS becomes stronger DPE.

#23 Echophantom

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 11:45 PM

Well, you could go Fist/Sword, MH and OH , but in order to get both 5/5 Sword Spec and 5/5 CQC, you have to both drop all 4 of your previous "flex" points, and furthermore drop 1 point in a talent that does give a DPS boost. You'll do all that, but I'm not quite sure there will be a noticeable DPS difference, which is why I'd say it's more preferable to just stay with Fist/Dagger.


minor nitpick - most fist/sword builds were only going 4/5 Sword Spec, since the boost gained from just about every other movable DPS point is larger than the 5th point in the talent.

#24 Akka

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 02:22 PM

However, realistically given the 1 token per kill which may not even be our token, it means it will be a while before some of us see the T7.25 helm.

This sentence had me worried.
Do you mean there is only one single token for a r25 boss ?
I took for granted that they had gone the TBC way with 1 token on r10 bosses and 3 tokens on r25 bosses, but after all there was only one token on Maulg/Gruul and Mag at first, so...
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#25 Leto

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 03:45 PM

This sentence had me worried.
Do you mean there is only one single token for a r25 boss ?
I took for granted that they had gone the TBC way with 1 token on r10 bosses and 3 tokens on r25 bosses, but after all there was only one token on Maulg/Gruul and Mag at first, so...


Not killing kt/sapph until tonight, but all the other bosses in naxx dropped at least 2 valorous tokens, so I'd imagine KT would drop at least that many.
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#26 chalon

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:37 PM

Even on 25-man, KT drops only 1 helm token per kill, yes. This was reported by many people in Beta, but it wasn't changed. Either that means it's intended or it was very low priority and they never got around to fixing this.

All other Naxx 25 bosses (as well as Sartharion) drop 2 tokens per kill.

#27 x1tiger1x

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 05:45 PM

Even on 25-man, KT drops only 1 helm token per kill, yes. This was reported by many people in Beta, but it wasn't changed. Either that means it's intended or it was very low priority and they never got around to fixing this.

All other Naxx 25 bosses (as well as Sartharion) drop 2 tokens per kill.


KT drops 2 helm tokens per kill in 25man.

#28 Hanos

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 08:00 PM

This sentence had me worried.
Do you mean there is only one single token for a r25 boss ?
I took for granted that they had gone the TBC way with 1 token on r10 bosses and 3 tokens on r25 bosses, but after all there was only one token on Maulg/Gruul and Mag at first, so...


Not killing kt/sapph until tonight, but all the other bosses in naxx dropped at least 2 valorous tokens, so I'd imagine KT would drop at least that many.


Nope, T7.25 helms are going to be in short supply, currently the only known source (and everything has been killed) is Kel'Thuzad, and he drops two per kill, so odds are even the top guilds are going to have people missing Helms for Ulduar, because the other pieces can be picked up with badegs or from the PvP boss. So make sure that the people taking them doing have a better alternative. For rogues the helm is basically required because we don't have a superior helm option and we have superior legs, chest and gloves.

#29 chalon

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 08:58 PM

I have never seen KT drop 2 helm tokens on a kill. And I just double-checked on our guild's DKP list and only see one helm drop on each of our two kills. I also killed him many times on Beta and only ever saw 1 helm token.

First kill he dropped:

Second kill:

The only other thing I could guess is maybe one of those slots is shared with the set tokens? So he always drops 4 items, sometimes 2x non-set 2x helm, and other times 3x non-set, 1 helm?

#30 ZLoBny

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 10:11 PM

We got 2 helms on 25man mode this reset.

So I guess, its random.

#31 chalon

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 10:21 PM

Was it 2+2 or 3+2?

#32 Ultramax

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 03:39 AM

Our kill on the 23rd resulted in 2 weapons, shield, 2 helm tokens. Seems like it's been hotfixed chalon.

#33 ohnoes

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 04:28 AM

I'm fairly certain they hotfixed it, if in fact he's dropping 2 helm tokens. Come to think of it our Wintergrasp lockout was increased to 7 day reset as well opposed to 3 days.

#34 Tinkerfizzle

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 04:33 AM

Come to think of it our Wintergrasp lockout was increased to 7 day reset as well opposed to 3 days.


I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.

#35 Hulkhoegan

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:03 PM

Weapons
Combat: So what's fucked up for Combat is the best MH sword in the game currently is a 156 DPS Naxx trash drop. Furthermore, there's only one top end sword which is 1.5s. This means that for all intents and purposes, you really don't want to go swords anymore. Instead, MH Fist/OH Dagger is the way to go. So drop 5/5 Sword Spec and instead get 5/5 CQC. This sucks a little bit for humans, but given that you still get 10 free Expertise from talents, and there's a plethora of well-itemized armor pieces with Expertise on it, it's not too big of a deal. Sword Spec is not hands down better than CQC now, due to both the WF change and the addition of Prey on the Weak.

So basically, you want MH (KT drop), and for an OH you want a fast dagger such as , , or .


Using sp00n's spreadsheet v3b and all of the default gear that comes plugged in when you download the sheet I have found that a 15/51/5 spec including both 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword spec using and is only ~20 dps below the Fist/Dagger alternative with and .

These are the values that I found with using a 15/51/5 spec with a 5s/5r/5e rotation with the Rupture, SS, and SnD Glyphs:

/ 4821.40
/ 4797.01

The Fist/Dagger setup is still the most effective but is currently the second best off hand from what I've found and deserves a mentioning.

#36 CrayonOfDoom

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:28 PM

I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.


Definitely a weekly reset, has "5day 17hr 33min" timer on it right now. Also, i can confirm that KT dropped 2x helms for us. Double vanquisher though, so I'm set till blizz releases more content!

#37 Feist-Mok

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:16 AM

Using sp00n's spreadsheet v3b and all of the default gear that comes plugged in when you download the sheet I have found that a 15/51/5 spec including both 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword spec using and is only ~20 dps below the Fist/Dagger alternative with and .

These are the values that I found with using a 15/51/5 spec with a 5s/5r/5e rotation with the Rupture, SS, and SnD Glyphs:

/ 4821.40
/ 4797.01

The Fist/Dagger setup is still the most effective but is currently the second best off hand from what I've found and deserves a mentioning.


Did you change the race to Human, as you are?

The racial does a good bit of gap closing for any spec involving swords for us.

#38 Hulkhoegan

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 06:57 AM

Did you change the race to Human, as you are?

The racial does a good bit of gap closing for any spec involving swords for us.


That was with leaving the race as NE, chaning it to human does close the gap a bit more but that combo still ends up in second place.

#39 Backgoode

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:07 PM

It should also be noted that is essentially equivalent to as a combat offhand.

#40 Tinwhisker

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 02:28 PM

I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.


It was a 3-day reset but they hot-fixed it to 7 days, they also increased his health. People were just walking in and collecting free loot. I imagine we'll start seeing more changes like this.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> 26/11 Archavon Encounter Changes




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