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Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3)


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#41 LuShiT

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:09 AM

How sure are you that the Adrenaline Rush glyph reduces CD on both AR and KS? Because the tooltip doesn't mention anything about KS (atleast not on Wowhead). Also, isn't glyph of garrote more of a pvp-glyph, considering garrote is a very hardly used ability in PvE content? On a boss-fight you'll be lucky to even use it 3 times. Is an update of the original post on it's way to replace it with the AR glyph?

#42 Richiewolk

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:29 AM

How sure are you that the Adrenaline Rush glyph reduces CD on both AR and KS?


Because it does. Go test it out: apply the glyph then check the cooldown on KS.

#43 drumbum

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:31 AM

Hit rating caps (at level 80)

The following values assume that you have 5/5 Precision and that you are attacking a level 83 mob (i.e., boss level).

[table=head]Extra buffs or debuffs|Specials|Poisons|White
None|99|315|722
Imp FF or Misery|99|237|722
Imp FF or Misery & Heroic Presence (draenei)|66|210|689

For PVP, assuming no Precision:

[table=head]Specials|Poisons|White
164|105|787

#44 Kireiray

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:28 AM

While on the topic of killing spree, just a ta bit of info for raiders. I was doing malygos the other night and noticed a couple of things.
When you vortex you end up in either an in-range position or out of range position. to ensure i had as much up time on malygos as possible i would KS right at the start of the vortex and he would actually just drop me, as a result i was in range below him. Tiny part of the fight but, helps none the less.

One other question i don't want to clog up the forums with so PM if you please. But does anyone find rogue dps underwhelming in spite of the fact that most guilds & players rocked up to naxx10/25 with equivalent sunwell gear and some classes are just overhwelmingly so far ahead of the dps race its quite demoralizing. I mean i'm hoping as usual that rogues will scale best with gear, it's just hard to believe we can gain so much ground.


What spec are you raiding? As mutilate with crappy daggers (guild is in full funwell epics and 25 man naxx stuff) i'm sitting at around 3rd-4th on the chart behind fury warriors and a mage or two.

#45 Ashere

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:04 AM

I'm glad you used the hit rating tables I originally made, but I think they might be a little overkill for this post. For example, both Mutilate and Combat raid builds should always include 5/5 Precision, so it's probably not necessary to list what the caps are without it. Perhaps something along these lines would be more appropriate for a "pocket guide".

That's quite true as long as nothing happens with the sub tree, in which case anywhere between 0 and 4 points in Precision will be found. So I don't think it's a bad thing to keep the 0-precision values, people can always extrapolate the rest of their information from that.

#46 Hamstring

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:05 AM

with a quick regard to aep, where does ap go for combat?
at the moment i've been using the 1.1 that strength uses, however i'm sure this is wrong since it makes ap gems better than agi gems (which im sure it shouldn't be) and it doesn't scale with kings so i'm sure it should be less than strength's 1.1, then again, the 4% from savage combat, and poison scaling... i'm a tad confused.

#47 Mazz

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:40 AM

with a quick regard to aep, where does ap go for combat?
at the moment i've been using the 1.1 that strength uses, however i'm sure this is wrong since it makes ap gems better than agi gems (which im sure it shouldn't be) and it doesn't scale with kings so i'm sure it should be less than strength's 1.1, then again, the 4% from savage combat, and poison scaling... i'm a tad confused.


If I read the tables in the pocket guide correctly the numbers there translate a given stat to its value in AP. So the value for AP will surprisingly always be 1 :P

#48 Hamstring

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:38 PM

If I read the tables in the pocket guide correctly the numbers there translate a given stat to its value in AP. So the value for AP will surprisingly always be 1 :P


oh right, must have missed that part. that'll teach me for only reading EJ in a morning when i've only just woken up.

#49 Lilias

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:00 PM

Expertise Rating

From Enova's post.

25 expertise (205 expertise rating) to cap.
15 expertise (123 expertise rating) to cap for rogues with 2/2 Weapon Expertise.
12 expertise (99 expertise rating) to cap for human rogues wielding a sword/mace.


Care to change it to the correct numbers 26 (214), 16 (132), 13 (107) as stated in this post? ;)
"Mindless SS spamming'"? Yeah right, 'cause every time you hit Backstab you need to solve a short differential equation.

#50 Kytrarewn

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:30 PM

Re: Mutilate poison selection

Instant on the faster weapon, obviously, in a 25-man raid environment. There will always be some sort of poison ability up on the mob, whether it be from your combat rogue buddy or a Hunter.

Here's my question, though: The standard mutilate build linked in the original post doesn't include Deadly Brew for obvious reasons (there's better places to put those talent points, and most raidmobs are immune to crippling).

In 5-mans though, where energy, cycles, and debuffs are a bit more hairy, I was wondering whether Wounding might be a better choice for one of the weapon-buffs, just to have a better chance to have some poison up on the target?

Which hand would you throw it on, in that situation?
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#51 x1tiger1x

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:34 PM

if there is no one else to provide the critical hit chance
debuff, Master Poisoner may be substituted for Turn the Tables.


I have a question regarding this. When you say "if there is no one else to provide the critical hit chance
debuff", are you speaking of Totem of Wrath?

#52 Demi9OD

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:43 PM

I have a question regarding this. When you say "if there is no one else to provide the critical hit chance
debuff", are you speaking of Totem of Wrath specifically?


Or a Paladin with Heart of the Crusader.

#53 Hartge

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:37 PM

In my 10 man raid group for my guild, I am the only rogue, along with 1 hunter. To help with threat I generally put up Trick of the Trade almost every cooldown, though some of the time it is not needed, however, it does boost our DK tank's dps.

I was wondering how well TotT could be put into that above mentioned mut rotation, not necessarily every cooldown since it probably won't be needed.

TotT also helps the raid by not allowing anyone else with insane dps pass the tank in burn situations while dropping you even lower in threat.

#54 Gentoo

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:53 PM

What do you guys prefer for weapon enchants? Mongoose or something else?

#55 Ratoon

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:13 PM

What do you guys prefer for weapon enchants? Mongoose or something else?


Untill the mats for berserking become more common mongoose is still decent.

#56 Bues

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:43 PM

What is everyone's opinions on 15/51/5 and 7/51/13 (either combat swords or combat sword/fists)? A few people have told me that 7/51/13 does more damage than 15/51/5 but does the armor pen and increased rupture damage and ignore armor outweigh ruthlessness and lethality?

#57 Hulkhoegan

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:35 PM

Vulajin himself has posted that his spreadsheet is doing something wacky with ArP and until he figures out exactly what to go ahead and assume that Aldriana sheet is correct in that 15/51/5 is the higher dps spec.

#58 saedo

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:45 PM

Vulajin himself has posted that his spreadsheet is doing something wacky with ArP and until he figures out exactly what to go ahead and assume that Aldriana sheet is correct in that 15/51/5 is the higher dps spec.


Where did that happen? I thought he was only referring to ArP proc trinkets on his spreadsheet, in which they were being overestimated.

#59 Feist-Mok

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:14 AM

Vulajin himself has posted that his spreadsheet is doing something wacky with ArP and until he figures out exactly what to go ahead and assume that Aldriana sheet is correct in that 15/51/5 is the higher dps spec.


I'd love to see this, I must've missed it somewhere.

I've tended to assume Aldriana was right on this one simply out of history, and because the 15/51/5 spec has less filler, but I've personally been rolling with 13 sub for the increased utility CC'ing in 5 mans. The difference seems to be minimal enough to make it a pretty valid choice.

Once I'm not running 3-4 heroics a day, this will probably become a less important use of talent points.

#60 Vulajin

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 04:59 AM

Vulajin himself has posted that his spreadsheet is doing something wacky with ArP and until he figures out exactly what to go ahead and assume that Aldriana sheet is correct in that 15/51/5 is the higher dps spec.


The current update on that is that the sheet is not doing anything screwing with ArP, neither ArP on gear nor procs/trinkets. I thoroughly checked the entire ArP model and everything is in order.

I have not recently checked whether it indicates 15/51/5 or 7/51/13 as being superior.

Yep, still a fucking idiot.





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