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Pawn Values for all Specs: Updated to 3.3


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#21 Guest_Alarius_*

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

I would be interested in good relative values for hit, stamina, and resilience in PVP to be used as weights in Pawn. Right now, I'm trying to figure out where to start in placing values in these fields.

#22 Zarty

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:05 PM

Your value for int for holy seems awfully low to me relative to the crit and spell power. Using the numbers from the combat ratings at 80 thread:

1 int is worth .006% crit. with kings and divine intellect, that's 0.0075% crit.
1 crit rating is .0218% crit and is worth 1.4 pawn rating.
1 int provides 34.4% the value of 1 crit rating, so should get .4816 pawn rating from its crit value.

1 int is worth .2 spell power. With kings and divine intellect, it should be worth .25 spell power.
spell power is worth 1.1 pawn rating.
1 int provides 25% the value of 1 spell power, so should get .275 pawn rating from its spell power value.

So that's a total of .7566 pawn rating, using your formula, before you account for the other benefits int provides. 1 int is 15 mana or 18.75 mana with divine intellect and kings to start the fight with. 18.75 mana also yields .21 mp5 with a 90% replenishment uptime, and .390 mp5 using divine plea on cooldown.

It's so hard to come up with useful numbers for holy, though, so since so much depends on your playstyle, spell selection, etc.

edit: updated numbers from combat ratings thread.

#23 frmorrison

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:05 PM

Your value for int for holy seems awfully low to me relative to the crit and spell power.


I bumped up Int's value a bit, since you have a good point. I also changed the meta socket since 21 int and 600 mana every minute is pretty good.

#24 Zarty

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:28 PM

Yeah, and past a certain point in int, the becomes arguably even better:
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-holy_paladin_guide_wotlk/p9/#post986689

#25 Babathong

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:14 AM

I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.

#26 gezmodean

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:11 AM

I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.


Baba, what pawn is asking you for is equivalence, it helps you try to come up with numbers. The strings we create can be imported using the 'import' function in the options section.

As I mentioned before, its all relative, so if you want your numbers to be lower (e.g. instead of 100,000 for a rating, 1000, divide by 100).

#27 JettJaguar

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:25 AM

I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.


That is what I did. Ultimately, you want to keep all the values correctly relative to one another whether that is 168 to 127 or 1.68 to 1.27. The ratio is what is important not the total number.

#28 gezmodean

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:33 AM

Just updated a couple of the values based on the discussion and added the wowhead equivalence ratings.

One thing I'd like to note, most of what we're seeing here is PvE equivalence, and in some cases (e.g. the current redcape strings) heavily favor weapons, to a potential fault. Adding more stats will inflate the numbers, but do you feel that its more important to have more specific strings, or a more generic valuation of gear ?

How do you use your pawn ?

#29 Guest_Alarius_*

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:24 AM

How do you use your pawn ?

Right now I have four scales, one for healing, one for tanking, one for DPS (primary set because of my ret spec) and another for PVP which I would like to tune a little better until I can get my hands on some entry-level Gladiator stuff. The healing and tanking sets are based off of values I've found off of Wowhead's theorycrafting forum discussing WotLK weights. Also, I use my scales mostly in assisting me in determining which item is more geared to my specific focus.

#30 Imala

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:10 AM

Just updated a couple of the values based on the discussion and added the wowhead equivalence ratings.

One thing I'd like to note, most of what we're seeing here is PvE equivalence, and in some cases (e.g. the current redcape strings) heavily favor weapons, to a potential fault. Adding more stats will inflate the numbers, but do you feel that its more important to have more specific strings, or a more generic valuation of gear ?

How do you use your pawn ?


I think it would be nice to stay somewhat generic. However, I would like to see strings when not hit capped, when hit capped, same with expertise.

We all know it's not linear, but having couple of guidelines like that could be helpful.

#31 Chmur

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:14 AM

How do you use your pawn ?


Totaly generic, just for quick look whether I should look into the comparison a bit more. If I see 2 items in reasonable point difference span, then I usualy run spreadsheet or quick proper yet napkin math on them.

I think it would be nice to stay somewhat generic. However, I would like to see strings when not hit capped, when hit capped, same with expertise.

We all know it's not linear, but having couple of guidelines like that could be helpful.


I really think having those hit and exp capped strings will be very helpful indeed. And while someone is at it, could you input the socket value of 168.09x16 (reflecting rare STR gems socketing possibility) - 2689,44 More details to it can be found on previous page, as well as the bordering limits of following socket bonuses for everyone's info. Thanks.

#32 Altirias

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:51 PM

Protection Strings
( Pawn: v1: "wowhead PvE prot": Defense=100, Stamina=98, DodgeRating=94, ParryRating=88, Agility=81, BlockRating=63, SpellPower=38, ExpertiseRating=25, Intellect=25, BlockValue=25, SpellHitRating=19, Armor=8) Added Nov 25


You're not rating Strength at all ? Shouldn't it be at least 0.575 * Block Value => 0.575 * 25 = 14.375
And that's not even accounting for the threat component

#33 Guest_Alarius_*

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:43 PM

For Prot I've been using the values found at Wowhead's TC forum...

Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft

Defense: 100
Stamina: 98
Dodge: 86
Parry: 76
Agility: 76
Block Rating: 38
Strength: 38
Expertise: 25
Block Value: 25
Hit Rating: 19
Armor: 8

#34 Jourgenson

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

What equivalency rating are you all using for the chaotic skyflare meta?

#35 frmorrison

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:22 PM

What equivalency rating are you all using for the chaotic skyflare meta?


I just added a meta value for the 21 agility/3% crit meta (I prefer it over the 21 crit meta). I just did agility value * 21 and adding a bit for the crit bonus. The dps gain of the crit bonus is 3% * crit rate, so that is hard to give that a value, since that is about a 1% dps gain.


I also lowered expertise's value for Prot, since it only affects three attacks (auto, Seals and HotR).

#36 Rasputin

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:32 PM

I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.


I divided each number by 100 to get somewhat more reasonable totals on items, but it doesn't make any difference really. As long as the relative values remain the same you can divide and multiply each number by whatever you wish. Leaving the numbers as is will just make the resulting sums 100x larger than they "should" be. Just make sure to change all numbers or none by the same factor, and it will be the same result.

#37 Redcape

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:54 AM

What equivalency rating are you all using for the chaotic skyflare meta?


That is a good question. I value the 3% crit damage component at 93.35 dps. That is simply what my sheet showed as the dps difference when I removed it. That value will change with your dps total, but if you are using the values my spreadsheet spits out currently it should be a great place to start.

So if str = 168.09, then 3% crit meta is worth 9335 + the value of 21 crit rating.

I personally divided all the values by 100 for pawn purposes to make my results smaller, so in my personal pawn string it looks like str = 1.68 and a meta socket is 93.35 + value of 21 crit rating.

As a note this meta is so absurdly powerful that any helmet without a meta socket is pretty nearly an automatic writeoff. Unless you are upgrading 2 tiers or more of content you can't consider any hat without a meta.

#38 Guest_Alarius_*

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 01:16 AM

In PvP, you attack the same level people (except in AV), so you only need 5% hit. However in a raid, you need 9% hit because boss kills are what matters.

Since you are interested in Naxx, I would recommend making two lists. One for SoB and another for PvP starting from the SoC list (adding a weight for stamina and resilience (resilience's value should be higher) while decreasing hit rating's value from the SoC list). This PvP list would help you decide what to use until you start filling out your slots with PvP gear.

Or you could just use the SoB list to make things easier.


I am curious, how much do you suggest I allocate for hit, resilience, and stamina? I'm hoping to finalize my PVP scale tonight.

#39 Kigale

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:42 PM

I also lowered expertise's value for Prot, since it only affects three attacks (auto, Seals and HotR).


Not shield of righteousness? I thought I saw a combat log in one of these threads showing Shield being parried.

#40 Chmur

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 02:05 PM

How to value hit after cap though? It has pretty high weight so sticking to unchanged values could screw you over (yeah, need to apply common sense) but still, any ideas how to reflect hit cap? You can't set the value to 0, as that would gimp it as "potentional future" stat to create some "hit bank" for replacement of hit heavy items, but while hit capped crit should be above it, shouldn't it? Could anyone do maths for this please?

And another request, please - I am unable to find anywhere how much is 5 expertise at lvl 80 converted into rating, as I am dwarf and thus having 5 exp racial with maces makes them really favoured weapon. Could anyone tell me the ratio, please? I can do the maths myself, just need the base numbers. Thanks.

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