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In-Depth Fury DPS Discussion


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#3221 surfanor

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:04 AM

He has more crit, you have more AP.


DW Tick damage is based on weapon damage. How would crit make a difference in the actual damage per tick. Crit should only add to the number of ticks and up time correct? We have the same up time and I have more ticks.... Also would 5% crit increase damage per tick by 200%?

According to the Spreadsheet we should both be at around 5400 damage tick. Attacking the same boss at the same time what could cause my ticks to do less than half that?

#3222 DrChem

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 12:16 PM

He has more crit, you have more AP.


Total number of crits for both players: Fanátic 184; Civrôck 179. Purely intuitively, I don't think pure crit% was the difference remix.

For reference: Fanátic DW damage is 406 543; Civrôck DW damage is 594 235.

That really is a pretty impressive difference.

What MH are you using Fanátic? You're in prot on the armory at the moment. I can't imagine the MH is the whole answer, but it might help to explain. In fact, logging out in your fury gear might help someone spot something...

#3223 Essequibo

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 07:40 PM

How would crit make a difference in the actual damage per tick. Crit should only add to the number of ticks and up time correct? We have the same up time and I have more ticks.... Also would 5% crit increase damage per tick by 200%?


If you crit and there are already Deep Wounds on the target, the damage is recalculated and next ticks are bigger, so even when having 100% uptime it matters how often you crit.

It can be observed on a dummy - first, attack it and wait for one crit, then stop attacking and watch the ticks, then attack till you get a few crits in a row and see if the DW ticks got bigger.

#3224 Greennunu

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:43 AM

Total number of crits for both players: Fanátic 184; Civrôck 179. Purely intuitively, I don't think pure crit% was the difference remix.

For reference: Fanátic DW damage is 406 543; Civrôck DW damage is 594 235.

That really is a pretty impressive difference.

What MH are you using Fanátic? You're in prot on the armory at the moment. I can't imagine the MH is the whole answer, but it might help to explain. In fact, logging out in your fury gear might help someone spot something...


Long time reader, first time poster, but I do believe the culprit to your low DW is Blood Beast, if you look at damage by actor you will find that Fanatic does .06% damage to the Beast while Civrock does 0% there is some miniscule amount for both.

If you look at both parses other than DW the only other department where Fanatic is losing to Civrok was WW attacks, leading me to believe Civ held his attack back during beast and Fanatic continue to WW while beast were out. So that's where the increase of hits/crits came from. Take away WW totally from both players and Fanatic has about 141 crit and Civ 149 crits.

As for the lower average per tick, I assumed at first that since Blood Beast took less damage from splash aoe damage, the DW would do less damage as well even though the tooltip would suggest otherwise, however as I fumbled around on the WoL and found the damage listings for each abilities it confirms that DW does have a damage reduction for the beast as well(198 ticks) and though I didn't do the math I think when the DW was average together it made Fanatic numbers look weak.

#3225 MildCorma

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:04 AM

Regarding DW growing:

I don't think this is something that we can regulate as Rallik stated. DW growing either happens or it doesn't, even with plenty of crit you still have a chance to not crit. This being said I also don't think at any point that having too much DW growing going on is possible. Unless you hit a freakish amount of variance in favour of continuous crits then there will always be enough DW ticks coming off in between your rotation to make whatever growing has occurred a benefit. I don't think there will be a point (that players can reach at least) where DW growing is so insane that not a single tick of DW comes off (thats looking at it the extreme way). I do see why Landsoul you might want to calculate this for your spreadsheet but the nature of rng and how reliant growing is upon it makes it an unenviable task certainly.
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#3226 BWarner

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:32 PM

DW growing isn't something that will never happen. It's like saying Sword Spec isn't reliable, because it only adds a chance to get an extra swing, and there's no guarantee that it will go off in a given encounter. That's not telling the whole story. Now, is there a button on our bars that says "grow my DW"? Of course not. But that doesn't mean it's something we can't affect, mostly in terms of gearing towards crit.

I do agree that we're not going to see any crazy DW silliness, a la 1H Arms in 3.0.2.
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#3227 Chenglong

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:28 AM

DW growing isn't something that will never happen. It's like saying Sword Spec isn't reliable, because it only adds a chance to get an extra swing, and there's no guarantee that it will go off in a given encounter. That's not telling the whole story. Now, is there a button on our bars that says "grow my DW"? Of course not. But that doesn't mean it's something we can't affect, mostly in terms of gearing towards crit.

I do agree that we're not going to see any crazy DW silliness, a la 1H Arms in 3.0.2.


Yes because Execute Proc is to low ...would be nice if Blizzard can change it back to 30% . Then it will be viable again

#3228 surfanor

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 08:30 PM

Total number of crits for both players: Fanátic 184; Civrôck 179. Purely intuitively, I don't think pure crit% was the difference remix.

For reference: Fanátic DW damage is 406 543; Civrôck DW damage is 594 235.

That really is a pretty impressive difference.

What MH are you using Fanátic? You're in prot on the armory at the moment. I can't imagine the MH is the whole answer, but it might help to explain. In fact, logging out in your fury gear might help someone spot something...


I run dual Heroic Cryptmakers.

Also I had a total of 8 crits on Blood Beasts and very few DW ticks on them. Most DW damage on Beasts came from the tanks as I only WW after the intial aoe stun and the typoon knockback. Most beasts don't live more than 3 seconds after I crit them.

All that brings my total crits to just 3 under Civ's. While I can see the reasoning for everyones explanations (thank you to all who posted). It still seems amazingly odd that with 176 crits vs 179 crits would be the difference of nearly 200,000 DW damage. Obviously 24 ticks at around 200 would bring my average down but 3 crits increasing DW damage by 50% is crazy. Needless to say I'll be watching the logs carefully tonight.

#3229 Hesch

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:52 AM

I run dual Heroic Cryptmakers.


#2: You get free Deep Wounds damage ticks if the debuff is refreshed within about .2-.25s after a tick.

This one is a bit tricker to explain. If you've heard of the "Ignite Munching" bug, then you probably are already aware that DW munching occurs in the exact same fashion. Basically, if 2 crits land near simultaneously, when the 2nd crit updates the damage value for the DW buffer, it overwrites whatever the 1st crit wrote and ignores it.


With same speed weapons you are going to see a lot more of this unless you are desyncing.




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