Jump to content


Photo

Hit rating


  • Please log in to reply
357 replies to this topic

#21 sihyunie

sihyunie

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 120 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:20 AM

I'll add some more math to this.
I'm using one of the earlier screenshot showing that FA doesn't affect the pet.
In that screen shot, pet missed 68 out of 4160 attacks when the hunter had 6.13% hit.
Using Z test, I get z score of -4.77.
What this means is that the observed event is 4.77 standard deviation below the norm (in this case the assumed 9% hit cap), which basically means it's is extremely unlikely (~0.0001%) for this to happen, i.e. the assumption was wrong.
When the same test is done w/ 8% hit cap as assumption, z score is -1.12, which has about 86.86% chance of occurring.

Another support would be, there is a screenshot with ~8% hit and 1500 shots and not missing any.
The probability of this happening (assuming 9% hit cap) is <3*10^-7 (or < 0.00003%).

So I think it's safe to assume that the hit cap is 8%.

#22 Guest_Alex234_*

Guest_Alex234_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:29 AM

Update :
Asked GM about FA and pet - he said that everything work correctly.
So as FA working correctly -- seems (for me) there is no point to waste 3 talents in FA as BM making almost half of all damage by pet.

#23 wl04

wl04

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 08:09 AM

Did full Naxx-25 with hit rating 266 (~8.11%) at most boss encounters had hit lower than stated before because some items were changed. Actually i have a fealing that hit rating is currently very overvalued. Even when i've started with 142 hit rating (Sunwell gear) i didnt have much misses. According to the the spreadshit 1 hit rating is the 2nd best stat per item budget and in case of raw dps after Int. Here is my Pawn string generated by the latest version of spreadshit. This is with 266 hit rating plus 1/3 FA just too make me hitcapped:

( Pawn: v1: "Hunter": ArmorPenetration=0,34, RedSocket=6,213, CritRating=0,255, Intellect=0,635, MetaSocket=8,155, Agility=0,388, HasteRating=0,166, BlueSocket=4,107, YellowSocket=7,213, Rap=0,248, HitRating=0,513, Ap=0,248, Mp5=0,319 )

So in my opinion hit is overvalued while other stats undervalued.

#24 Shaâden

Shaâden

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:54 AM

http://img296.images...577/hit8pv0.jpg

6.07% hit on stuff + 2% from talents = 8.07% hit.

3.000 auto-shots: 0 miss (I should stastically have got an average of 28 miss if hit cap was 9%)


Note: the miss rate of my pet on more than 3.000 auto-attacks really low also: 2.0 %



Naxx25 yesterdy:
Wow Web Stats

Fights against bosses only, no draenei aura, I got 7.76% hit (I removed some hit stuff in order to check this).

Exactly 1500 shoots: 4 misses. That's 0.27% miss rate.

#25 dssurge

dssurge

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 147 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 12:26 PM

Naxx25 yesterdy:
Wow Web Stats

Fights against bosses only, no draenei aura, I got 7.76% hit (I removed some hit stuff in order to check this).

Exactly 1500 shoots: 4 misses. That's 0.27% miss rate.


Note2: for my pet on the same Naxx session:
Wow Web Stats

3097 hits on bosses: 240 miss, that's 7.75% miss rate (hunter had 5.76% hit from gear and 2% form FA).


Best guess:
WWS lumps together parry, dodge and miss so your pets inherent dodge rate + miss rate is being summed as the total miss rate.

Patchwerk pet data -> Wow Web Stats

~6% innate dodge + 2.24% from miss rate - 2.5% from 2/2 Animal Handler = ~5.7, your pets miss rate for Swing (roughly 300 attacks) was 5.8%. Didn't take the time to look up your talent spec, but even with 1/2 animal handler, it's still a plausible reason for the miss rate.

I would say this further indicates both the 8% hit cap and FA not being included in hit rating calculations for pets.

#26 kbranch

kbranch

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 42 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 02:16 PM

I posted about a 9 hour test on the heroic dummy in the druid forums a few days ago that agrees with the 8% miss chance, so it's not just hunters (link). 35,799 hits, 11.4% parry, 4% dodge, and 8.2% miss with no gear on and 2.5% expertise from talents.

#27 Æthien

Æthien

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 141 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 02:57 PM

On the subject of hit and expertise, I did a small test (2000 attacks) for my pet.
As I remember seeing someone here ask about expertise, and if it had any effect on pets.
I happened to get a ring with 33 expertise rating (4 expertise) so here's the screenshot:
http://i162.photobuc...0208_152040.jpg

2/2 Animal Handler, 4 expertise. --> 3.8% dodge
1/3 Careful Aim, 195 hit (5.95%+1% from CA). -->2.9% miss.
On the heroic training dummy in IF.

The hit surprised me, as with close to 6% hit I expected my pet to miss 2%, not 3.
I can't say anything about expertise as I have no clue how much dodge a boss has/is supposed to have.

edit: on second thought, this might have been better placed in the pet thread.

#28 sihyunie

sihyunie

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 120 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 03:05 PM

It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)

#29 Æthien

Æthien

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 141 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 03:31 PM

From the post above me, and the many other posts people have made around here regarding this topic, I by now fully expected 8% to be the hitcap, but apparently this does not go for pets.

#30 Guest_Alex234_*

Guest_Alex234_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 December 2008 - 03:38 PM

Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.

#31 Æthien

Æthien

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 141 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 03:44 PM

screenshot please, as my pet showed 3% miss with 5.95% +hit.

#32 Har

Har

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:04 PM

It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)


I've updated the first post in this thread to reflect this. I believe it's a bug and that it is supposed to be transferred to the pet.

#33 Deathstalkr

Deathstalkr

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:39 PM

Just a thought--
Could it be that there is a mechanic with in the game that is messed up allowing the Dranaei Racial talent of 1%HR be given to all characters? Lowering the HR from 9% to 8%. Thus, this racial doesn't effect pets to begin with still making their HR 9%.

#34 Iru

Iru

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 303 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:44 PM

That would be a very weird affect as my pet certainly gets an aura from my dranei hunter's racial. So all players, my pet but no othr pets in the game? Occam's razor says its more likely that blizzard made a typo and haven't noticed.

#35 Guest_Alex234_*

Guest_Alex234_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

screenshot please, as my pet showed 3% miss with 5.95% +hit.


Sorry, didn't make it :(
But, as you have just 5,95% +hit -- pet surely will miss anyway because you have no hit cap.

Iru
Any pet is affected by other player's dranei aura.

#36 Mattaos

Mattaos

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 240 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:46 PM

Did full Naxx-25 with hit rating 266 (~8.11%) at most boss encounters had hit lower than stated before because some items were changed. Actually i have a fealing that hit rating is currently very overvalued. Even when i've started with 142 hit rating (Sunwell gear) i didnt have much misses. According to the the spreadshit 1 hit rating is the 2nd best stat per item budget and in case of raw dps after Int. Here is my Pawn string generated by the latest version of spreadshit. This is with 266 hit rating plus 1/3 FA just too make me hitcapped:

So in my opinion hit is overvalued while other stats undervalued.


Understand something regarding this (extremely) recent observation of hit rating that tools like the spreadsheet are still tuned to assume the hit cap is 9%, so obviously it will value hit until capped if you are under that 9% threshold. This is new information still being confirmed and the spreadsheet will be updated accordingly once there is a definitive answer.

It appears that the 8% hit cap theory is coming closer to fruition and the available tools we have to use will adjust soon. In the meantime, just keep in the back of your mind that 9% (apparently) is an overkill and supplement other stats (i.e. crit, AP, etc...) even if the spreadsheet indicates a piece of gear with hit is a bigger upgrade over another.

Also, keep in mind that the spreadsheet is defaulted to reflect a 15 min. fight duration which will always value any stat or talent that increases mana and replenishment. Stats such as crit and AP are still extremely valuable under current raid conditions where a boss encounter might last 5 min.

#37 Soulcow

Soulcow

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 50 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:50 PM

Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.


Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?

Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.

So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.

Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.

#38 Guest_Alex234_*

Guest_Alex234_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:17 PM

Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?


Absolutely ! Sad, that i didnt any screenshoot to proof :(

Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.

So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.

Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.


Ill try to make new test today\tommorow and ill make screenshot this time.
May be my test was too little in time.

#39 Mattaos

Mattaos

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 240 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:20 PM

Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?

Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.

So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.

Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.


EDIT: Answered my own question after taking the time to actually look over the screenshot.

#40 kbranch

kbranch

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 42 posts

Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:35 PM

Were those misses (1.1%) true "misses"? Or, was your source (Recount or WWS?) lumping in dodges as misses also? If you were striped of your talents that would be a lack of 10 expertise from Animal Handler.


The recount results in his screenshot separate out parries, dodges, and misses. The breakdown for melee was 1.1% miss, 7.3% dodge, and .1% parry.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users