Jump to content


Photo

Rawr.Mage


  • Please log in to reply
1672 replies to this topic

#1661 Spacedonkey

Spacedonkey

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

So maybe a very basic question, but can't get my head around this:

As I understand it, Simcraft looks at your current stat values to make a determination of the relative value of stats for you, at that point in time. This makes it helpful when looking at what gear to pick up for example.

However, if you take your stat weights from SimC, and plug them into Mr Robot (as suggested above), the new stat weights then change the suggested reforge/gem king/enchant suggestions. So - were you to then change those things then go back to SimC, wouldn't you then get a different set of relative stat values, and have to repeat the process all over?

Is there something I'm missing in there that breaks this loop?

You can do that. But realistically, your relative stat values won't change that much when you change reforge/gem unless you hit significant breakpoints.

#1662 Caltiom

Caltiom

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 96 posts

Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:34 PM

As Spacedonkey says, in most circumstances the relative position of your stat weights will be the same, unless you change/reforge large amounts of stats.

If you really are in a situation, where the marginal dps gain of two stats is about the same, SimC offers you reforge plots to find a balance ( "sweet spot" ) between the two. But Simc really loses out compared to Rawr when it comes to analysis of marginal values, because the cost of reducing statistical noise to a low enough level is just too high ( and is reduced only by the square root of the number of iterations ). Rawr doesn't have to go down the path of linear approximation ( scale factors ) at all, but can directly calculate the dps of all possible item permutations for you.
It would be great if SimC could offer the same GUI item selection features ( with all relative dps values ) as Rawr, but that requires a speedup of factor 1000 or more, which just isn't possible.

#1663 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

You can do that. But realistically, your relative stat values won't change that much when you change reforge/gem unless you hit significant breakpoints.


The problem with using relative stat values to evaluate whether an item is an upgrade or not is that RSV completely ignores the effect of removing one item and equipping another.

Rawr computed DPS with old item dps vs new item dps and the difference was displayed. Using RSV the RSV of your gear with old item equipped is often not the same as the RSV with new item equipped, as Thot indicated.

To get an accurate evaluation with RSV what you need to do is to evaluate your equipment with the old item equipped and get a set of RSV for the old gear set. Multiply up this old RSV with the stats of the old item to get the RSV value of that item. Then evaluate your equipment with the new item equipped and get the RSV of the new gear set. Then multiply up this new RSV with the stats of the new item to get the RSV value of the new item. Compare old RSV value with new RSV value to see if item is a upgrade or not.

Even with this hideously onerous (ie: no one is likely to bother) process, you are not getting a DPS comparison only a rough guide. The major problem with the RSV approach is when caps are hit, so you CANNOT use RSV in any manner to compare when you remove an item with +hit on it and replace it with an item without +hit as the relative value of hit will dramatically changed if you are no longer capped.

Similarly RSV will not cope with hit becoming worth zero when you are capped. eg: Item has +350 hit on it this takes you to the cap calculating RSV would give zero for hit as you are capped and more is worthless. However if you wanting to see if its worth replacing that item the 350 hit is valued at zero due to cap. However without that item you aren't capped so actually hit from that item does have a value. This is my point about the procedure above to use RSV properly you MUST consider the effect of removing the item under consideration for an upgrade.

Rawr didn't need to do any of this as it worked entirely on calculating DPS not the shifting sands that is RSV. It's a little known fact but Rawr did not use RSV in any way at all.

To answer Thot's question you break the loop by comparing pre and post situations. Get RSV values for what you have and then RSV values for the fully iterated final setup. Be prepared to run SimCraft numerous times to get the iteration to settle down.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#1664 TheGreyPaladin

TheGreyPaladin

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

With Kavan gone is anyone updating RAWR anymore? Havent seen a new release in a few months and the one from a few months ago had alot of issues - not to mention of course the mage nerfs/mini buffs the last few weeks. Hate to see such a great tool in the old days go away ;(

#1665 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

I updated Rawr.Mage with the following changes, and afaik a new release (Rawr5.0.3?) is planned for this week or next.

- Critical Mass nerf to 1.30x
- Combustion nerf - removal of pyro contribution
- Arcane Charge buff to 25%dmg / 75%mana

#1666 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:53 AM

Rawr 5.0.4 is now available on rawr.codeplex.com

#1667 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:33 AM

Rawr5 (exe) has been updated to 5.2 for Fire and Arcane. Frost is pending, as well as Tier15 set bonuses.

#1668 Tebla

Tebla

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:38 PM

I must be missing something, but how do I enable ilevel 522 items to show for optimization? I can import a character with T15 and the items show fine, but when I import mine those same items are not available for optimization.



*edit - I went in to the filters and added a new filter with pattern for ToT and then used custom clider for filtering by ilevel and the T15 stuff started showing.

#1669 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

Right, just go to Filter on the right hand side, "Filter by item level", and set it to 496-541 (or whatever). That said until the next Rawr update, you have to add any 5.2 items by hand via the Options -> Edit Items -> Add Item menu.

#1670 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:21 PM

Rawr5 (exe) has been updated to 5.2 including Frost, Mage Tier15 set bonuses, and 5.2 trinket procs.

#1671 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

Sinister Primal Diamond's +30% haste effect is not set up correctly though. A workaround is to set it up as a flat +15000 haste rating instead. Close enough for now :-)

(Options -> Edit Items -> type Sinister -> Click it -> Edit -> Special Effects -> Edit -> remove 30% spellhaste -> add 15000 haste rating)

#1672 Hanassal

Hanassal

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

I'm missing something also, or misunderstanding your post. Frost mage rates gear by survivability only, for me. Also, the tier gear pieces are showing as negative 90k dps, for fire and arcane.

Are there some settings I need to adjust, or did these not make it into the 5/7/13 release?

#1673 Omnia

Omnia

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:07 AM

Please post your mage's server and name under the Issues section of rawr.codeplex.com if you encounter any issues. Scores definitely shouldn't show up as negative or survivability only. In the meantime you may try to reload the character entirely from battle.net just in case.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users