Jump to content


Photo

Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1633 replies to this topic

#41 Trickykid

Trickykid

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 478 posts

Posted 04 December 2008 - 10:05 PM

To be honest, I just use it to see new items and get a good idea of my gear path (eg: get item X from heroics, then upgrade it by getting item Y from Naxx).

Could you elaborate a little (or link me to info about) the gear weights? What's that all about?


After you choose to filter results there is an arrow (above the items) "Create a weight scale beta". Click this and you can assign values to any stat and it will sort by the resulting scores.

#42 Darkstarrz

Darkstarrz

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 04 December 2008 - 10:18 PM

I see alot of people putting a point or two into molten core as heavy affliction builds and taking a point out of erradication or Improved shadowbolt. I have not tested this yet but I am sure many of you have. Have parses shown higher dps, I just dont see as being a heavy shadow build(affliction) why you would bother with points to bump up the only one fire dot that we even drop sub 25%.

#43 Heeno

Heeno

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:36 AM

The debuff slot part can be removed since blizzard announced that they have removed the hard cap on debuff slots, so DoTs will no longer be pushed off.
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> The Debuff Limit and You

#44 dedmonwakeen

dedmonwakeen

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,302 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:35 AM

Yes creating item weights with the wowhead tool is a VERY viable way to determine what gear is best for you at whatever point your character is in. SimCraft again has nice baseline numbers for scaling that you can leverage and tweak from there to see how it will sort the gear out.


The next release of SimulationCraft will generate LootRank and Wowhead links along with the scaling tables.......

#45 Guest_Aeetes_*

Guest_Aeetes_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 December 2008 - 04:47 AM

Thanks Niccaras, Also, Does anyone know a good addon that shows you your targets(boss's) HP percentage to help with signifying when to begin casting drain soul on any encounter. I know you can obtain this via normal wow UI but I use AG Uint Frames and it only seems to show actually numbers for the targets HP.


I'm currently using X-perl, I like that it can display relatively compact raid frames because I like to keep an eye on the entire raid (whos dead, ect.). It can be setup to show your targets health and percentage. Its target frame also gives countdowns on your debuffs (unless I'm mistaken and one of my other mods is doing this, necrosis comes to mind). which is very handy for timing dot/haunt refreshes.

While on the topic of addons, i also highly suggest necrosis. It can be configured to auto-delete soul shards after the desired amount has been obtained. (in my case a full 28 slot soul bag). This is obviously very useful now with the DS under 25% change.

anyone have any other useful mods?

#46 Eph

Eph

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 293 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 05:16 AM

anyone have any other useful mods?


ForteWarlock, although it's really for all classes now.

#47 dragon12

dragon12

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,818 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 08:30 AM

Thanks Niccaras, Also, Does anyone know a good addon that shows you your targets(boss's) HP percentage to help with signifying when to begin casting drain soul on any encounter. I know you can obtain this via normal wow UI but I use AG Uint Frames and it only seems to show actually numbers for the targets HP.


You can get AGUF to show boss hp % as well.

#48 virginio16

virginio16

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 08:36 AM

Hi all, well my main doubt is how you guys go with trash mobs.
When i started to be a warlock affliction was the way to go, for me warlocks are a unique class, nothing compares to them. I love being affliction but since the patch i havent find the rigth specc for me, until i went 55/0/16, ruin/haunt.
Last nigth i ran trougth a 10 man in winterspring and i was second dps.
Im not geared, i have 1314 SP unbuffed, all my gear is blue and some greens, but then again came the freaking real test, i ran through a heroic and i was terrible i finished with 1000 dps in the whole instance but in the bosses i end it up being top dps.
When you guys run a heroic/raid, what rotations do you change in order to deal with trash mobs dying before your dots can do damage? what dots you take away from your rotation? do you spam SB all the time?
Thats my main problem, ending with a low overall dps because dots do not tick in trash mobs.
Thanks for all your answers cya in game.

#49 leino

leino

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:03 AM

When you guys run a heroic/raid, what rotations do you change in order to deal with trash mobs dying before your dots can do damage? what dots you take away from your rotation? do you spam SB all the time?
Thats my main problem, ending with a low overall dps because dots do not tick in trash mobs.
Thanks for all your answers cya in game.


My rule for trash basically is:
1-3 mobs: Dot up first, switch second dot up ( probably without haunt ), switch to third ( again with haunt ). and keep this cycle up for as long as necessary.

3+ mobs (mostly raid environment ): SoC -> tab -> SoC -> tab . Hold your soulshatter button close at hand tho when doing this. tends to give massive aggro, but very good dps

#50 Eruantien

Eruantien

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:48 AM

My rule for trash is to basically not worry about it. Affliction warlocks aren't ever really going to be able to equal/beat hunters, mages, etc on trash (without spamming Seed on a sufficient number of mobs), are they?

I just dps as best I can on trash, but only really care about 'performance' on boss fights.

#51 Kabale

Kabale

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 48 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:51 AM

Trash DPS is terrible for Affliction, thankfully most of naxx trash can be AoE'd down so you don't end up looking so bad. In heroics it's pretty much the same as anywhere else really, trash DPS is irrelevant, all that matters is boss DPS. The only exception is probably timed runs, but even the CoT timed event can be AoE zerged.

#52 Neron

Neron

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:28 AM

After playing around with lots of different options in my affliction specc, I finally decided to just go all out on damage talents... 53 0 18

I had to pretty much just stack to hit gems, but still found it to be worth the bother... Interestingly enough, I seem to be pulling the same 4-5k DPS regardless of being in Naxx10 or 25...

To anyone interested, here are our WWS, so you can pull out my reports...

#53 fallenman

fallenman

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:18 PM

Spell power coefficients:
1.2 Base Coefficient
+0.36 (Empowered Corruption)
+0.05 (Everlasting Affliction)
+0.05 (Contagion)


Everlasting affliction boosts the spell power coefficient in the following way:


Corruption = +30% spell power.
UA = +25% spell power.
Siphon Life = +50% spell power.



See the following information from Vux on the testing done.



# Test X: Everlasting Affliction 5/5 (+5% Spellpower per tick)


* Corruption

o Base Damage:
900 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
772, 772, 772, 772, 773, 773 = 4364 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(900 + 1377*1.56) * 1.30 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*6) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Add EA damage)
(900 + 1377*1.56 + 1377*.05*6) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Bring inside parentheses)
(900 + 1377*1.56 + 1377*.3) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Multiply .05*6)
(900 + 1377*1.86) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(900 + 1377*1.86) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 30% extra damage from Spellpower (6 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Improved Corruption, Shadow Mastery, Contagion and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 186% for Corruption.

* Unstable Affliction

o Base Damage:
875 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
615, 615, 615, 615, 616 = 3076 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(875 + 1377) * 1.15 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*5) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Add EA damage)
(875 + 1377 + 1377*.05*5) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Bring inside parentheses)
(875 + 1377 + 1377*.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Multiply .05*5)
(875 + 1377*1.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(875 + 1377*1.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 25% extra damage from Spellpower (5 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Shadow Mastery and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 125% for Unstable Affliction.

* Siphon Life

o Base Damage:
630 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
319, 319, 319, 319, 319, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320 = 3195 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(630 + 1377) * 1.15 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*10) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Add EA damage)
(630 + 1377 + 1377*.05*10) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Bring inside parentheses)
(630 + 1377 + 1377*.50) * 1.15 * 1.03= 3192.81975 (Multiply .05*10)
(630 + 1377*1.50) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(630 + 1377*1.50) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 50% extra damage from Spellpower (10 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Shadow Mastery and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 150% for Siphon Life.




By the way, if you'd like to copy/paste my guide into your guide, I think it would be beneficial to the community to have one central thread/location. :) So maybe you can edit your guide and put my info in someplace?

#54 Debuff

Debuff

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 04:12 PM

I have a question about drain soul that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. I remember reading back in the BC days that drain soul does buff its self via soul siphon if you recast the channel since when you recast the mob has a drain soul debuff. My question is whether or not people are using this and refreshing drain soul after the first tick in order to get another 5% bonus to it's damage via soul siphon. I realize that this is a double-edged sword though and it would result in increased mana usage. Was there math on this if refreshing is more worthwhile than the mana loss?

#55 krilz

krilz

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 286 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 04:32 PM

Does anyone know the value of Black Magic vs. 63 spell power to weapon for affliction? Is the dot it applies affected by haunt / shadow's embrace?

I found this comment on wowhead that might give some insight on the issue:

I had this enchanted, and spend some quality time with training dummies in IF.

No scaling with spellpower. Affected by CoE however.
In 200+ casts of Searing Pain, I observed a 45 sec internal CD and no Molten Core procs. It did, oddly enough, proc the Demonic Soul effect from 2-piece Plagueheart.
In 50+ casts of Rain of Fire, I never saw a proc on any of the targets.
In 30+ casts of Shadowfury, it often procced, but never on more then one target.
Never procced Molten Core .

It seems that a channeled AOE (Blizzard, Rain of Fire etc) wont proc it, but AOE with a cast time or instant cast will, but only on one of the targets. This makes it fairly similar to the Lightweave Embroidery from tailoring. Which in the same way often procced off Shadowfury but never off Rain of Fire and only on one target on AOE attacks.

Really, in PVE this looks to a piece of junk. No scaling in gear, a too-long cooldown and a prohibitive cost. Get the 63 spelldamage instead.



#56 Nicarras

Nicarras

    Keyboard Cowboy

  • Members
  • 3,422 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:14 PM

I have a question about drain soul that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. I remember reading back in the BC days that drain soul does buff its self via soul siphon if you recast the channel since when you recast the mob has a drain soul debuff. My question is whether or not people are using this and refreshing drain soul after the first tick in order to get another 5% bonus to it's damage via soul siphon. I realize that this is a double-edged sword though and it would result in increased mana usage. Was there math on this if refreshing is more worthwhile than the mana loss?


People arent doing it, but really most peoples first DS cast is a short cast broken after the second tick for a haunt/aff debuff refresh. Then a long DS cast afterwards, that would pick up what you are talking about (if it still exists in the game).

#57 dagee

dagee

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 08:41 PM

Damage done:
0.85*1.2*1.1*1.15*1.05*1.13*1.01*( 1740 + ((1.2+0.36+0.05+0.05)*(2000*1.03)))*0.99*(1+0.15) = 9714.85
Casttime: 1.5s*(1/(1+Haste)) = 1.5*(1/1+0.15+0.0183) = 1.28s
DPCT: Damage/Casttime = 7566.57 Damage per second casting.

Quick question: How is the base damage for a skill calculated. I am at work right now so I am using the wiki's information but according to the wiki rank 10 corruption does 1080 dmg. Improved corruption does another 10%. That still does not come out to 1740. I am assuming some multipliers are being thrown into the calculation for base damage. What are they and how much are each worth?
One rogue does not a raid make.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

#58 Blacksen

Blacksen

    Executor

  •  Patrons
  • 1,344 posts

Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:11 PM

Your Immolate math is off, and your hit rating math is off.

dot = 1.2*1.1*1.01*(765+1/(1-2.0/3.5) * 2000 * 1.03)
direct = (460+( (1-1/(1-2.0/3.5))*2000*1.03) )* (1 + 0.15+0.10+0.03)
total = 0.85*1.13(dot+direct )*0.99 = 3724.24

Casttime: 1.5s*(1/(1+Haste)) = 1.5*(1/1+0.15+0.05+0.0183) = 1.23s
DPCT: Damage/Casttime = 3024.82 Damage per second casting.


Simplifying the DoT:
1.3332 * (765 + 2.4033 * spell dmg)
1019.898 + 3.204 * spell dmg

Sorry, but 320% spell dmg multplier on immolate is incorrect.







The hit cap is now 17%, making it so that spells won't miss.

#59 Namnalia

Namnalia

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 61 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 02:10 AM

Thx for the feedback. I'll be fixing these things during the next week, I guess.

@ Blacksen: You're right, it should be

dot = 1.2*1.1*1.01*(765+1/(1+2.0/3.5) * 2000 * 1.03)
direct = (460+( (1-1/(1+2.0/3.5))*2000*1.03) )* (1 + 0.15+0.10+0.03)
total = 0.85*1.13(dot+direct )*0.99 = whatever

just a plus instead of a minus. Most probably just a typo, the resulting numbers seem right. I'll check that.
The hit rating is correct. I know that you can overcome the last percent, it's just that the values
I calculated with don't (10% base + 6% from buffs).
This was actually intended, it's easier to see what more hit rating would do when you're not capped.

@ Fallenman

Now that's interesting, I would never have expected EA would work like that. Guess I'll test it myself just to be absolutely sure. In fact i wanted to copy your part, but when I saw the "+50% percent spell power" for siphon life my first impression was it couldn't be right :-) I'll have a deeper look into the matter now.

Hopefully, I'm almost at the point where the damage estimation is good enough to start with the next part (The equip), but I want to fix this stuff first as the equip is based on it.

#60 Batuk

Batuk

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 06 December 2008 - 07:33 PM

Anyone done work to find the haste cap for our dots? It's gonna drop off in how good it is fairly fast when your gcd capped on half your dmg spells.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users