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The Survival Hunter in WotLK


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#41 Arides

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 01:24 PM

I don't think we can easily discount Lock and Load without discounting the one very strong point of the tree right now, and that is the synergy of its talents. You have Serpent up anyway because of Noxious Stings (which I'm assuming is in any build with access to Glyph of Steady Shot), and a proc gives you multiple uses. The Explosive/Arcane/Explosive or 3x Arcane on Explosive immune mobs (or vice-versa) is obvious, but you can also spread 3 individual Explosives on 3 individual mobs, all of whom then proceed to proximity tick each other. And all of those ticks, and all of those proximity ticks, can crit [NB: I don't know if it's been determined if each crit possibility is calculated separately or if it's determined on the initial hit]--put a HaT rogue in the party and things will die so fast if you blink you'll miss they were even there.

Since trap procs are guaranteed, L&L is a given for any trap-heavy playstyle. I'm not entirely enamored yet of the aforementioned trap dancing in a raid environment, due to both the DPS lost during movement time and the very real possibility of getting clobbered while in melee range, but it does bear further looking into. (The much-maligned Freezing Arrow has obvious advantages here, and I use it heavily while soloing for low-mana chain killing--unfortunately mobs that break the effect through immunity do not set off the L&L procs, which makes it useless on most bosses I've seen so far).

#42 Namarus

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:59 PM

1. Haste- Since we have a tremendous amount of haste on our t7/t7.5 gear, coupled with the haste we get from rings/boots/capes/weapons, i believe that IAOTH is a beginning talent at best. I currently have 303 haste rating and will only tack on more from gear stats alone when i acquire another 2 pieces for the 4set bonus. We need 523 haste rating to cap steady shot casts, and i firmly believe that hunters can come close to that number with naxx tier pieces and off pieces (10 and 25man respectively). That being said, i think IAOTH is a talent that can be spec'd out of when you acquire more gear upgrades.


It is going to take a long long time before you can spec out of IAOTH, and rather than aiming for gear with haste, you should just accept gear with haste, and try for other pieces that do not have haste. IAOTH is a stepping stone for Focus Fire. I really do not see any reasonable survival hunter spec'ing out of this for a long time.


2. Hit- Hit is a bit of a bigger issue, as hunters have to compete with rogues (and sometimes warriors and pallies) for off pieces that have hit on them. Again, just like haste, as more hit is gained with off pieces and/or weapons, you can drop points in focused aim. It's just a bit harder to get hit IMO because of different classes needing hit. Of course there is theorycrafting that supports the notion that focused aim is not needed at all, but i like to be capped anyways. I also dislike gemming for hit.


I also suffer the problems with hit, especially trying to pick up melee weapons with hit, since rogues are trying to get them all. 2-handers paladins, deathknights, and warriors all want them. Leaving hunters with a hard choice for a stat stick melee weapon that melee do not want.

3. Master Tactician/Sniper Training- I never liked MT in BC and for some reason i don't like it in Wrath. I still believe that 5pts to spend for that 10% chance proc is way too much. But, Sniper Training is not really a better option. It seems to me that Sniper Training is a pvp talent for when you are in the open fields ( or in arena) mowing people down. As has been said in this thread numerous times, being 30+ yards away from the boss means you are also 30+ yards away from a healer or buffer. IIRC shaman totems have a 40 yard range. I tried Master Tactician for awhile, and i still didn't like the proc rates on it. However, Sniper Training doesn't seem like a very feasible talent either. So it's a tossup imo between whichever talent is mechanically more sound for you.



Master tactician is a solid talent when you have low crit. In BC this became a mediocre talent as people geared up because they had so much crit, and it suffered from diminishing returns as such. However, right now, when people are still gearing up, it is an excellent filler talent to increase dps.

With regards to sniper training. Unless your healers are sitting right on the mob, there is no way your out of range of your healers while using sniper training. In terms of being out of range of totem, get your deathknights to horn of winter or sit with your elemental shaman. There are many fights in all content instances where you can use your sniper training to good effect. It's just a matter of looking for the opportunities to use it.

4. Expose Weakness- Since i have been combing these forums since Wrath came out, i have found that 3/3 EW is not necessary anymore (wasn't really in BC either in endgame). As Smogh said, with the rogue poison bug still going strong critting and keeping EW up is not a real big issue. Also with a feral druid in raid, any decent gear surv hunter imo should/could be sitting on 40% crit (relative to the current ingame gear levels). I will be speccing to 2/3 very soon as unbuffed im at 33%.


Unless your crit is terribly low at the moment raid buffed, you should put 3 points in, however, with 2 your uptime should still be excellent.


My biggest annoyance at the moment is with lock and load, when it procs 90% of the time my explosive shot is on cooldown, rather than immediately refreshing your explosive shot, you have to wait for your cooldown to complete before you get the benefit of your lock and load, this often wastes about half the total cooldown time. Often as a result I am having to substitute a sub-optimal ES->AS->ES to use up the proc.

#43 KraxisSingular

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:15 AM

I also suffer the problems with hit, especially trying to pick up melee weapons with hit, since rogues are trying to get them all. 2-handers paladins, deathknights, and warriors all want them. Leaving hunters with a hard choice for a stat stick melee weapon that melee do not want.

My biggest annoyance at the moment is with lock and load, when it procs 90% of the time my explosive shot is on cooldown, rather than immediately refreshing your explosive shot, you have to wait for your cooldown to complete before you get the benefit of your lock and load, this often wastes about half the total cooldown time. Often as a result I am having to substitute a sub-optimal ES->AS->ES to use up the proc.


I would say stuff like Wraith Spear is pretty much optimized for Hunters. Loads of Agi, not too much Stamina and jampacked with ratings and AP. That's the normal Hunter approach. While Warriors and DKs are looking at Str first and foremost, and often a lot more Stamina. This polearm isn't that great for them. It is a perfectly viable and acceptable weapon going from blue... sure. But even to selfish twohander people it should be obvious. Just like no idiot would roll on tankguns, even if they had higher DPS (heard of an MM with a 1:1 rotation back in the day with Rifle of the Stoic Guardian).
Blizzard has become better at balancing the gear out a bit towards intended roles. But with more stats to shuffle around it is of course also easier.
But the best thing is just being sensible about it in general.

I didn't know LnL worked like that. I tohught it was refresh and pop away. This sucks, and should honestly be changed. It is an annoying factor (how many other procs have to wait for unrelated CDs?), and it lower the DPS of a spec that isn't exactly matching the other specs, nor does it provide that much to a raid any longer.

#44 ihatepeople

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:54 AM

It is going to take a long long time before you can spec out of IAOTH, and rather than aiming for gear with haste, you should just accept gear with haste, and try for other pieces that do not have haste. IAOTH is a stepping stone for Focus Fire. I really do not see any reasonable survival hunter spec'ing out of this for a long time.




I also suffer the problems with hit, especially trying to pick up melee weapons with hit, since rogues are trying to get them all. 2-handers paladins, deathknights, and warriors all want them. Leaving hunters with a hard choice for a stat stick melee weapon that melee do not want.



Master tactician is a solid talent when you have low crit. In BC this became a mediocre talent as people geared up because they had so much crit, and it suffered from diminishing returns as such. However, right now, when people are still gearing up, it is an excellent filler talent to increase dps.

With regards to sniper training. Unless your healers are sitting right on the mob, there is no way your out of range of your healers while using sniper training. In terms of being out of range of totem, get your deathknights to horn of winter or sit with your elemental shaman. There are many fights in all content instances where you can use your sniper training to good effect. It's just a matter of looking for the opportunities to use it.



Unless your crit is terribly low at the moment raid buffed, you should put 3 points in, however, with 2 your uptime should still be excellent.


My biggest annoyance at the moment is with lock and load, when it procs 90% of the time my explosive shot is on cooldown, rather than immediately refreshing your explosive shot, you have to wait for your cooldown to complete before you get the benefit of your lock and load, this often wastes about half the total cooldown time. Often as a result I am having to substitute a sub-optimal ES->AS->ES to use up the proc.





With regards to IAOTH and haste, i understand your argument but still disagree. I don't even have to really "aim" per say for gear with haste on it, it's just that almost every decent piece of raid gear mail has haste on it. Like i said, I am at 303 haste without even trying very hard and picking up gear that I think is a solid upgrade. Just like you said Master Tacitician and 3/3 EW were in essence crutches for lower geared individuals i believe IAOTH is a talent for people with low haste. I myself am in that category at this point in time, but not for long. As for focused fire, it is a very good talent. However, i view it in a double-sided way. On one hand, it provides more dps with the 2% more damage and the increased crit while kill command is active. On the other hand, the 2% damage is the only thing that is ultimately appealing imo because its a solid increase. The increased crit for your pet while kill command is active is very good, but being surv we have none of those delicious benefits from our pet critting on attacks like BM hunters do. So you will get more dps from your pet and ultimately yourself, but i think that miniscule gain and the 7 points you allot for that gain can be better suited to other talents in the MM or Surv tree.

An idea i had was to take those 7 would be points from the BM tree and put 5 of them into the MM tree so i could max out Improved Hunter's Mark and Mortal Shots. Then in the Surv tree, taking both Sniper training and Master Tactician. Your comments on Sniper Training made me rethink it a bit and your sentiments do make sense. However, i do stand strong on my beliefs about IAOTH and haste. I'm not too bull-headed as to ignore clear cut solid arguments though, so i recognize what you're saying as good advice. My spec will also stay like it currently is for a bit longer. I don't have all the gear that want to have to try out my dream spec, so I'm staying with this spec for now. Again, my ideal spec is something like this:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Hunter -> Talent Calculator

#45 Winged

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:33 AM

3.6 Weaponspeed

With the unlocking of Autoshots and Specialshots weaponspeed no longer dictates the weapon of choice. DPS is the most relevant, followed by the stats on said weapon. With two more or less equal weapons in said respects a fast weapon is probably favorable for SV Hunters because of on crit/hit procs like EW, TotH, Mast Tact, ImpAotH, Hunt Party, GftT.




TotH can only proc on Styles, so the speed not relevant for it, the same ist true for Hunting Party which can only procc on Explosive, Arcane & Steady Shot.


In WotLK with the unlocking of Autoshots and Specialshots max dps rotations depend on what damage an ability deals relative to others. Manacost per shot is also a factor since the use of more expensive shots may mean more time spent in AotViper. Atm Explosive Shot is the most damaging ability for SV Hunters. A solid rotation seems to be Serpent Sting followed by Explosive shot every cooldown and Steadyshots in between while using an instant like Arcane Shot when forced to move. Reapply Serpent Sting everytime it drops off (mind: refreshing Serpent Sting before it runs out is a dps loss).


There is no reason to use Arcane when moving because it shares its CD with Explosiv Shot.

#46 Cilithan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:51 AM

Thanks Winged for spotting the sloppy mistakes. Edited accordingly.

Also added a portion on Enchants and gave the Professions part of the first post (some) more body (with thanks to Rivkah and others).

When the discussion on using Immolationtrap in your rotation on stationary Bosses has produced some hard data, I'll weave that into the first post too.

#47 brainzelda

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:16 AM

I'm an alchemist that just respecced survival and was wondering if mighty agility is actually more beneficial to a survival hunter than the endless rage flask due to all the agility-focused talents like lightning reflexes and ew. any thoughts on this? Thanks.

#48 Rivkah

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:12 PM

I'm an alchemist that just respecced survival and was wondering if mighty agility is actually more beneficial to a survival hunter than the endless rage flask due to all the agility-focused talents like lightning reflexes and ew. any thoughts on this? Thanks.


I was going to say that this is unlikely to be competitive with the flask of endless rage (180 AP), however mighty agility is 45 agil (which would be 57 agil with LR and kings) and if paired with elixir of mighty thoughts which is 45 int, the 45 agil would have to compete with 135 AP. Although I doubt you would get 135 AP worth of value out of the 45 agil, on fights where mana is tight, the extra mana from 45 int could possibly make it a close enough case to consider it. I don't think it'd make sense to go this route for the most part as the elixirs would probably cost you more on wipe fights, but I always carry some elixirs for when my flask runs out and there isn't enough raid to justify a second one (or sometimes to delay flasking till later in the night). So pairing those two will sometimes make sense.

One thing to note, for an alchemist I think it is likely to be actually worse to use this combo over a flask, as I believe the flask bonus from mixology is higher than it is for elixirs. I haven't run specific tests on those two elixirs so I'll check it out next time I have an opportunity, but for a flask of endless rage you get a 64 AP bonus from mixology if you can make it.

#49 Namarus

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:47 PM

I would say stuff like Wraith Spear is pretty much optimized for Hunters. Loads of Agi, not too much Stamina and jampacked with ratings and AP. That's the normal Hunter approach. While Warriors and DKs are looking at Str first and foremost, and often a lot more Stamina. This polearm isn't that great for them. It is a perfectly viable and acceptable weapon going from blue... sure. But even to selfish twohander people it should be obvious. Just like no idiot would roll on tankguns, even if they had higher DPS (heard of an MM with a 1:1 rotation back in the day with Rifle of the Stoic Guardian).
Blizzard has become better at balancing the gear out a bit towards intended roles. But with more stats to shuffle around it is of course also easier.
But the best thing is just being sensible about it in general


Any agility 2-hander right now is great for a tanking deathknight. Hell with the dps that weapons like Black Ice etc.. put out, ret paladins are taking them. (Which has happened to me.) They are not ideal weapons but they are up there in terms of dps, 2nd or 3rd best in slot for them. So plan accordingly.

#50 Rivkah

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:12 PM

Technically from a strict itemization bonus standpoint, hunters should be better off with 2 1H weapons, because the 1H enchants are superior, especially in the case of the accuracy enchant which is a far greater itemization value than the closest 2H 110 AP enchant (100 points of a pure stat versus the 55 that AP would convert to in value). But it's difficult to find 2 1H weapons that give enough stats to compare to something like Black Ice even with the enchants calculated in, and with the ridiculous cost on the high end enchants (on my server it'd cost you about 2k in mats to enchant one weapon with accuracy at last check), I expect most hunters will be going after the 2H weapons at least for the short term.

I'm still rather surprised they didn't put a 2H limitation on the accuracy enchant since it's obvious from an itemization standpoint that it's way overbudget for a 1H.

#51 Namarus

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:18 PM

Technically from a strict itemization bonus standpoint, hunters should be better off with 2 1H weapons, because the 1H enchants are superior, especially in the case of the accuracy enchant which is a far greater itemization value than the closest 2H 110 AP enchant (100 points of a pure stat versus the 55 that AP would convert to in value). But it's difficult to find 2 1H weapons that give enough stats to compare to something like Black Ice even with the enchants calculated in, and with the ridiculous cost on the high end enchants (on my server it'd cost you about 2k in mats to enchant one weapon with accuracy at last check), I expect most hunters will be going after the 2H weapons at least for the short term.

I'm still rather surprised they didn't put a 2H limitation on the accuracy enchant since it's obvious from an itemization standpoint that it's way overbudget for a 1H.


I agree with you. 1-handers are the way to go with accuracy on them. However, I do not think I will spend the gold on that enchant until I get a best in slot 1-hander. With lines of rogues after Sinister Revenger, there is always the possibility that Hailstorm is a decent substitute.

#52 KraxisSingular

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:26 PM

Any agility 2-hander right now is great for a tanking deathknight. Hell with the dps that weapons like Black Ice etc.. put out, ret paladins are taking them. (Which has happened to me.) They are not ideal weapons but they are up there in terms of dps, 2nd or 3rd best in slot for them. So plan accordingly.


Well the point is the Wraith Spear is terribly light on Stam, something like less than half of most Strength twohanders. And as far as I have understood DKs scale better defensively with Strength (for Parry) than they do with Agility for Dodge. So that would make the spear a rather poor choice.
A ret is obviously going to like it since Paladins have one of the best Agi-crit conversions. But it still not optimzed for them.

Now if the spear is actually any good for us is another matter, and 2-hander vs 1-handers is a completely different game again.

Regarding the enchants, I think the Accuracy is supposed to be a 'passive' version of the proc AP enchant. At least this time we are given a truly good passive enchant, which is the best we can hope for if they won't give us ranged procs.

#53 Namarus

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:46 PM

Well the point is the Wraith Spear is terribly light on Stam, something like less than half of most Strength twohanders. And as far as I have understood DKs scale better defensively with Strength (for Parry) than they do with Agility for Dodge. So that would make the spear a rather poor choice.
A ret is obviously going to like it since Paladins have one of the best Agi-crit conversions. But it still not optimzed for them.

Now if the spear is actually any good for us is another matter, and 2-hander vs 1-handers is a completely different game again.

Regarding the enchants, I think the Accuracy is supposed to be a 'passive' version of the proc AP enchant. At least this time we are given a truly good passive enchant, which is the best we can hope for if they won't give us ranged procs.


You seem to be stuck on talking about wraith spear, when I haven't mentioned it at all.

#54 Kisai

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:26 PM

ENGINEERING

BoP Headslot item, unlike in TBC these won't last you the first few Tierlevels, but at least they have Agility now: Truesight Ice Blinders

Some utility as wipe recovery with Shockers and FD.


Hyperspeed accelerators, gloves enchant-- use: +340 haste rating during 8 seconds, 2min cooldown

everyone seems to forget about this one.

#55 Korvek

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 04:43 AM

Boss hit boxes are so buggy or retarded, its near impossible to place immolation traps in a stationary state on a lot of bosses. You can be in melee range of a boss and because of the mechanics of hit boxes, the trap will never even activate unless its close to the center of the actual hit box and not the endges.

However, I still think it is worth it to place immolation traps on bosses by positioning yourself during the GCD of an explosive shot or serpent sting and positioning yourself back out to minimum shoot range during the GCD of the immolation trap.

I also wonder if it would be more helpful to macro disengage and immolation trap together so you jump out instantly after placing the immolation trap.

When using immolation trap rotations on a test dummy in a stationary state, my personal damage (not pet) was spread out pretty evenly with 30% explosive shot, 30% steady shot, and 30% autoshot, with the other 10% being spread out in serpent sting and immolation trap.

#56 Zerlu

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:00 AM

Boss hit boxes are so buggy or retarded, its near impossible to place immolation traps in a stationary state on a lot of bosses. You can be in melee range of a boss and because of the mechanics of hit boxes, the trap will never even activate unless its close to the center of the actual hit box and not the endges.

However, I still think it is worth it to place immolation traps on bosses by positioning yourself during the GCD of an explosive shot or serpent sting and positioning yourself back out to minimum shoot range during the GCD of the immolation trap.

I also wonder if it would be more helpful to macro disengage and immolation trap together so you jump out instantly after placing the immolation trap.

When using immolation trap rotations on a test dummy in a stationary state, my personal damage (not pet) was spread out pretty evenly with 30% explosive shot, 30% steady shot, and 30% autoshot, with the other 10% being spread out in serpent sting and immolation trap.


WWS Loading...

Thats the results of a 10 man Naxx run. I didn't have Resourcefulness or the Immo trap glyph.

Rotation:

Serp Sting, Immo. Trap, ES, SS, ES, SS, ES, SS

After the first round, I would try to place a Immo trap following the ES, SS, SS pattern (so it became ES, SS, SS, Immo, LnL)

I tried to stick to this as best I was able. When it came to Viper, I would fire off a Serpsting, and a ES while in Dhawk, and then slip into viper with those two DoTs up. Generally speaking I didn't spend much time in Viper.

Honestly, given my gear, and the fact that I had never seen the inside of Naxx before, I didnt do half bad. I found places to use LnL (any adds....at all), and it usually resulted in a DPS gain. While my ES don't hit particularly hard, I think that may be my gear speaking. Given some more RAP, I think the superior scaling of ES would increase the damage. Of course, one test isn't enough, so hopefully I can get into a 10/25 naxx this week for more testing.

My personal feelings: On the majority of bosses we did (Abom. and Plague Wing) it is not overly difficult to place an Immo/Explosive trap to get an LnL proc. The largest pain was Saph. and I'm fairly sure her hit box makes it next to impossible to dance back and forth placing traps. Other than that, I'll need to do further testing, and probably with the Glyph and Resourcefulness.

#57 KraxisSingular

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:16 AM

You seem to be stuck on talking about wraith spear, when I haven't mentioned it at all.


You didn't need to when you said any... that little word means Wraith Spear by extension. If you had said most I would either not have commented or agreed.

#58 Namarus

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 05:38 PM

I've always been both a math-head that min/max'es and a heedless player that throws all that knowledge to the wind and does other things. My current spec I'm playing with says quite a bit about that.


A few side comments about SV builds, though I have no LK raid experience yet (even Naxx 10) to draw from, just my theorycrafting:


Here are a few comments of my own after clearing all raid content.

* There are some utility aspects to survival, but do not think that we are a great utility tree anymore. With expose weakness gone, and replaced with replenishment our utility has gone down hill. In a standard 10 man raid you might be the only person providing replenishment, or then again you might be the 2nd or 3rd person. Where as in a 25 man raid it is very unlikely that you will be the only person providing replenishment. Therefore you should be justifying your raid spot by doing "good" dps.

* Much of the survival tree is about fluff, not much substance to it all, and even our 41 point talent is lackluster. Get used it.

* Playing survival is about being able to manage the procs you will be getting from various talents and being able to use them at the best times.

* People question hastes usefulness as a marksman and as survival. I personally believe that haste is a "ok" stat since so much of our gear has it. Right now looking at the spreadsheet in general the best way to gear is accept whatever is an upgrade whether it has haste or not. Just do not go out of your way to get haste. While people question latency affecting haste and the global cooldown, server commands are queued. So if your are spamming out shot rotations while affected by latency provided your not using a cast sequence macro your shots should still go off relatively well.

* If anything in terms of scaleability you just cannot beat what a survival hunter gets in terms of stats. On mail dps gear we benefit from it all (apart from the expertise pieces). This can only get better as more and more raid instances are released. I remember sitting at around 7k hit points buffed when entering Karazhan in BC, and leaving Sunwell with around 13k. So considering that the currently raid instances are entry level I would expect that gear will just get better and better for us.

* As stated before I disagree with calling MT, HP and ST dead weight. There is only one fight at the moment where you would not get any benefit from Master Tactician and that would be Loatheb

Breaking down all of the raid encounters so far.

Arachnid Quarter

* Anub'Rekhan Useable
* Grand Widow Faerlina Useable
* Maexxna Useable

Plague Quarter

* Noth the Plaguebringer Useable, putting traps down for the adds to walk over gets some nice LnL procs
* Heigan the Unclean Sniper training can lose out here
* Loatheb Master Tactician loses out here

Military Quarter

* Instructor Razuvious Useable
* Gothik the Harvester Useable, putting traps down for the adds to walk over gets some nice LnL procs, plus since you know the location of where Gothik teleports you could have immolation traps waiting for him.
* The Four Horsemen Useable

Construct Quarter

* Patchwerk Useable
* Grobbulus Useable
* Gluth Useable, putting traps down for the adds to walk over gets some nice LnL procs
* Thaddius Sniper Training loses out here.

Frostwyrm Lair

* Sapphiron Useable
* Kel'Thuzad Useable


Obsidian Sanctum In all cases you can put traps down for LnL procs on the adds.


* 0 drakes Useable
* 1 drake Useable,
* 2 drakes Useable
* 3 drakes Useable, getting space to use sniper training can be difficult

The Eye Of Eternity

* Malygos Useable, you do have to watch out on this fight if you are killing the sparks since TNT can stun the sparks causing them to die outside designated dps areas.

#59 Dawnhoof

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:44 AM

Although also Marksmanship Hunters still need some amount of Haste-Rating to reach the GCD with Steadyshot, they tend to put at least 7 points into the Beastmaster-Tree. So this is mainly adressing Survival Hunters.

In these days many Level 80 Raid specs for a Survival Hunter seem to include improved Aspect of the Hawk. Sometimes just because of the usefullness of iAotH (5/15/41 Spec) or to reach Tier 2 where you can get Focused Fire (6/14/41 or 7/13/41). Focused Fire is a quite worthy investment for your talentpoints but when you're like me not willing to sacrifice Aimed Shot for Focused Fire, you're stuck with a maximum amount of 5 points into the Beastmaster Tree, unless you do really crazy shit.

So what i wanted to know was: How much points should i spend for iAotH, which directly depends on how much haste you have on your Equipment. Reaching the GCD for Steadyshot means getting 25 % haste. So it's:

Haste by Gear * Haste by Talents * Haste by quiver/pouch = 1,25

This way you can calculate how much points you need to put into iAotH to get Steadyshot casting time down to (or below) the GCD when it proccs.

[TABLE]Haste|points iaoth
> 522|0
412-522|1
308-411|2
209-307|3
115-208|4
27-114|5
<27|n/a[/TABLE]

If you take the Glyph of iAotH:

[TABLE]Haste|points iaoth
> 522|0 (not worth to take the glyph)
412-521|1 (but drop the glyph)
209-411|1
115-208|2
27-114|3
0-26|4[/TABLE]

If you're next to the upper barrier of a haste-interval you might want to put one point less into iAotH and miss the GCD just by some ms.

#60 Littlestan-Kel

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:03 PM

Through BC I played two Hunters to 70, both with SV specs all the way. While it was not the most efficient way to level, I have always thought it better to level with your intended endgame spec so you know it in and out. In the 4 years I have played WoW, the SV Hunter was the only class/spec that truly got my attention and brought out the best in me.

Now, I am saddened to find they have removed much of the usefulness of my favorite spec. I am now coming back to the game, and wanted to play my Hunter, but I have been told by my friends the CC utility of the spec, the sole reason I played the Hunter, is fairly useless.

Why take a Hunter with traps when you can take a Mage with Poly? Dual trapping and using Wyvern Sting to lock down three mobs consistently is what made the class fun for me. I have never been much of a DPS whore (no offense to those who DPS, I just have never cared for it) and want something more from my time in dungeons.

Taking into count there can always be an exception to the rule, is it safe to assume that most times, the utility CC of the SV spec is useless? Has WotLK changed the utility of this spec so much that folks now turn to it for DPS, rather than CC?

I am looking for some honest feedback. EJ has got to be the best set of forums for intellectual posts (most of the time). Have my friends been accurate in their assessment, that a SV Hunter is no longer needed where it once was, or have things not changed much since BC?

Thanks!




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