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Pawn addon values for all specs


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#21 Kiku

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 11:13 PM

Where can i get Rawr?


google -> rawr = Rawr - Home

#22 kiyona

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 11:56 AM

( Pawn: v1: "resto": Intellect=5.794, RedSocket=178.562, CritRating=2.047, ColorlessSocket=178.562, MetaSocket=339.242, HasteRating=2.866, BlueSocket=114.582, YellowSocket=130.934, SpellPower=9.398, Spirit=5.133, Mp5=10 )

In a format that is easier to read:
Intellect: 5.794
Spirit: 5.133
Spellpower: 9.398
Mp5: 10
Crit Rating: 2.047
Haste Rating: 2.866


Sorry if I fail at reading comprehension, but do these values assume you are getting replenish in your raid? I'm currently in a smaller 10-man raidgroup where we don't have access to replenish and hence I value regen alot. What values would be apropriate to input in Pawn if you assume you will be using Innervate on yourself, but will not have access to replenish?

Thanks

#23 red

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 07:17 PM

Sorry if I fail at reading comprehension, but do these values assume you are getting replenish in your raid? I'm currently in a smaller 10-man raidgroup where we don't have access to replenish and hence I value regen alot. What values would be apropriate to input in Pawn if you assume you will be using Innervate on yourself, but will not have access to replenish?

Thanks

I assume you mean Replenishment, not Replenish. My apologies if that assumption is incorrect.

Yes, those values assume replenishment. The value of intellect goes way down without replenishment. If you check Norfair's post in the itemization thread, he laid out his estimates/calculations for the different components of each stat. He gave a value of .206 mp5 per intellect just from replenishment. If you scroll down to Whïspur's post you can change the intellect value accordingly to remove the replenishment bonus.

Instead of intellect being worth .523 mp5, it would be worth .317. Intellect would then come out to around 37.34, if my terrible math skills are to be trusted. Of course this is partially based on his estimate of 1% crit being worth 10 spell power, which as far as I know is entirely subjective.

#24 Morimoto

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 09:42 PM

Agreed. I don't even bother pulling up Rawr to analyze gear options for my resto set. It is so heavily skewed towards crit and haste and devalues spirit and mp5 to the point that I find to be a ridiculous waste of time to analyze relative gear values with that model.


To be fair, this issue looks like a bug with Rawr's Tree model. I found the same issue myself and this post on the Rawr boards confirms it is a bug that should be fixed in the next release.

#25 Kiku

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:14 PM

Fairly major change made to RAWR yesterday related to shred damage. Re-ran with all best in slot and came up with the following:

ArmorPenetration=0.12, MeleeDps=2.71, CritRating=0.61, Strength=1.03, Agility=0.93, HitRating=1.06, ExpertiseRating=1.06, HasteRating=0.70, FeralAp=0.44, Ap=0.44

#26 Vomityn

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:17 AM

This is a reasonable idea for a model, but I think you've been tripped up. The values didn't pass the smell test for me (they are vastly different than values suggested by calculations in the tree threads), so I thought a bit about what you are probably doing here. My guess is that you did not consider raid buffs to mana regen, which has a number of dramatic effects.


I revisited my model after reading your post and it look's like I've been completely delusional with those values. Unfortunately, I made an error with Mp5 that threw all calculations out. I really should have noticed that it was wrongly suggesting that +12 spirit gems > +16 SP gems. Fixed now.

I also noticed that RAWR has strange values for mana cost that doesn't align with what I understand to be correct. Take for an example Rejuv, which RAWR says costs 761 mana talented. However, I come up with only 446 mana (18%*(100%-9%-20%)*3496). I'm at work and can't check these. Someone?

Anyway, the end result is as follows (assuming replenishment):
Int: 54.0
Spirit: 58.9
SpellPower: 52.5
Mp5: 100
Crit: 8.5

#27 Solister

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:16 AM

I'd be interested in knowing how these calculations are done. How did you get those results? What are the numbers based on?

#28 humbe

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 10:15 PM

Didn't see any bear tank pawn ratings so thought I'd post mine here.

I created my own mitigation gear calculation in order to better understand what gear is best for mitigation.

World of Warcraft - Evaluating druid tank gear

I update it with paperdoll stats based on my current gear, and that updates pawn values for me and gives me links to wowhead for sorted list of equipment for various slots.

Current Tank - Bear Raw Mitigation: ( Pawn: v1: "Current Tank - Bear Raw Mitigation": MetaSocket=566.4210, BlueSocket=424.8157, YellowSocket=424.8157,, RedSocket=424.8157, Stamina=17.7007, Agility=16.9549, DodgeRating=13.4718, DefenseRating=9.8322, BaseArmor=7.8020, ExpertiseRating=5.3939, Health=1.0120, BonusArmor=1.0000 )

Doesn't seem like altering gear alters the weights that fast. Anyways.. Can't just calculate everything either. The above weights are based on a TTL approach assuming that boss does all damage as physical auto-attacks for instance.

#29 kruthos

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 06:31 AM

I've been using Rawr as a boomkin currently at level 77 with just over 1000 spell power. Curiously Rawr is always showing that Spell Power gives me more of a damage boost than hit does. Does this change later because everybody always says get to the hit cap first.

#30 Monedula

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 02:27 PM

I've been using Rawr as a boomkin currently at level 77 with just over 1000 spell power. Curiously Rawr is always showing that Spell Power gives me more of a damage boost than hit does. Does this change later because everybody always says get to the hit cap first.

Well that is what I (feral) have with rawr too. I really wanna be hitcapped. Every ~33 hit rating gives me 1% more hit chance. So if my hit chance is 95% and I add 1% a mere 33 hit rating gives me 96/95% (= little over 1%) more damage.
Rawr doesn't strive for a hit cap as far as I know. I can advice you to get the best items there are and meanwhile try to get hitcapped and as soon as you are stay that.

However I must also say you "misuse" rawr. Rawr is no tool to tell you what items are worth at level 77. It is nice to see if you better swap an item, but the tool is aimed at bossfights at level 80. Some items valued a lot in rawr are worthless for leveling. I would suggest you don't worry about the specific stats for now, just dont sell the items that have hit on them. When you hit 80 try got see what gear you need to get the hit needed and go for that.

PS a small calculation: If you can now swap an item with 33 hit and 50 spellpower for one that is 0 hit but 80 spellpower, the spellpower will win. It currently means you get 30 extra spellpower. That is 3% more spellpower which translates into more damage even if you miss that extra 1% sometimes.

#31 nightcrowler

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 10:32 AM

What rawr didn't take into account is that if you miss you'll prolly screw up your rotation. So being hit capped is more damage gain than only the increased average damage.

#32 Erdluf

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 02:34 PM

What rawr didn't take into account is that if you miss you'll prolly screw up your rotation. So being hit capped is more damage gain than only the increased average damage.


I'm not sure that argument is valid for Moonkin. 1% miss costs our nukes a bit more than 1% overall damage (wasted NG, longer on-proc cycles).

DoTs (and FF) can be quickly reapplied if they miss. 1% miss should cost you much less than 1% of your DoT damage.

Since DoTs have higher DPET, I think the overall DPS loss from 1% miss is slightly less than 1%.

There is an information-overload cost though. If IS can miss, you have to watch for that miss. If in-range IS never misses, you can pay attention to something else instead.

#33 Allev

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 10:25 PM

Well that is what I (feral) have with rawr too. I really wanna be hitcapped. Every ~33 hit rating gives me 1% more hit chance. So if my hit chance is 95% and I add 1% a mere 33 hit rating gives me 96/95% (= little over 1%) more damage.
Rawr doesn't strive for a hit cap as far as I know. I can advice you to get the best items there are and meanwhile try to get hitcapped and as soon as you are stay that.


A few things:

While your 1% hit chance math works for white damage, it doesn't for yellow. Since all your yellow attacks don't expend full energy if they miss (only 20% I think), you'll retain that damage. Trust me that the white damage is accounted for correctly and the yellow damage is also handled appropriately in Rawr for feral. They've done the basic math.

There are 2 factors unaccounted for in the theorycraft that impact hit, as far as I know: 1) poor play, like not noticing that you missed an attack and hitting a wrong button; and 2) assuming 100% uptime is possible on DoTs/buffs even though you might miss (and I'm not sure about 2 in Rawr). At most you lose less than 2% uptime on your bleeds with no hit rating or expertise at all; having done some napkin math on this before, the effective difference in stat weights ends up being around a 10% increase in hit rating's value (i.e. not very significant).

Reason 1 is good enough to max hit/expertise, though, if your personal skill is below a certain threshold. If you want to, you can use the Optimizer in Rawr-- just set the amount of hit rating (and expertise, presumably) as additional requirements-- and find your ideal set of can't-miss gear.




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