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#1041 Elysianfield

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 10:27 PM

While that does show a difference, what it fails to show is whether or not getting a gear set of high spirit items is worth it.


I was under the impression that the point was not to acquire a spirit set, but rather that the spirit currently on your gear could be better utilized. Regardless of the amount of spirit you currently have, having the 70% instead of 55% of it turned into crit rating would always be an upgrade.

On a separate note, I fail to see why the molten armor buff that's already on you would be changed by merely changing two pieces of gear. I could see why changing specs might cause such behavior since buffs are usually wiped clean after changing specs although in live this doesn't apply to molten armor. Essentially all that's happening is that you have Molten Armor A which can only be cast with two piece t9 equipped, and Molten Armor B which is only cast when you don't have the t9 equipped. The % of spirit to crit should not dynamically change depending on whether you have the t9 equipped or not.

As an easily testable example, cast any shield in game that's dependent upon spell power. Let's assume that it absorbs 10,000 damage. Even if you take off all your gear, that shield will continue to absorb 10,000 damage for its duration. The amount of absorption would only change if you were to recast the shield altogether after losing or gaining spell power (ignoring the "a more powerful spell is active" annoyance).

#1042 Magictricks

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 08:30 PM

I was under the impression that the point was not to acquire a spirit set, but rather that the spirit currently on your gear could be better utilized. Regardless of the amount of spirit you currently have, having the 70% instead of 55% of it turned into crit rating would always be an upgrade.

On a separate note, I fail to see why the molten armor buff that's already on you would be changed by merely changing two pieces of gear. I could see why changing specs might cause such behavior since buffs are usually wiped clean after changing specs although in live this doesn't apply to molten armor. Essentially all that's happening is that you have Molten Armor A which can only be cast with two piece t9 equipped, and Molten Armor B which is only cast when you don't have the t9 equipped. The % of spirit to crit should not dynamically change depending on whether you have the t9 equipped or not.

As an easily testable example, cast any shield in game that's dependent upon spell power. Let's assume that it absorbs 10,000 damage. Even if you take off all your gear, that shield will continue to absorb 10,000 damage for its duration. The amount of absorption would only change if you were to recast the shield altogether after losing or gaining spell power (ignoring the "a more powerful spell is active" annoyance).


So far everyone that has tested the t9 bug have confirmed higher crit rates.

prehaps you are not aware of how to perform it?.

Equip 2pc T9:
Put on MA:
Switch to your normal gear:

you have to do that every time you buff MA.

#1043 Dejah-Thoris

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:59 PM

The idea isn't to fight in a high-spirit set, the idea is to have a set with as much spirit as you can and the 2PT9 bonus, cast molten armor, then put on your regular gear.

The high spirit coupled with 2PT9 may give you a fairly substantial boost to crit that doesn't change when you switch back to your regular gear. This needs to be tested to see if the boost actually stays, or is just a tooltip error.

#1044 lgtcount

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 12:23 AM

The idea isn't to fight in a high-spirit set, the idea is to have a set with as much spirit as you can and the 2PT9 bonus, cast molten armor, then put on your regular gear.

The high spirit coupled with 2PT9 may give you a fairly substantial boost to crit that doesn't change when you switch back to your regular gear. This needs to be tested to see if the boost actually stays, or is just a tooltip error.


This is incorrect. When you cast Molten Armor with 2pc T9, you get the bonus'd molten armor cast on you. From there, molten armor changes with the spirit you gain/lose.

In other words if you stack spirit, cast a bonus'd molten armor, and switch to your normal gear, it's the exact same thing as casting only putting on 2pc t9, casting a bonus'd molten armor, and switching those 2 pieces out. Either way you end up with the same crit cause Molten Armor auto scales after it's cast.

#1045 Elysianfield

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:00 AM

So far everyone that has tested the t9 bug have confirmed higher crit rates.

prehaps you are not aware of how to perform it?.

Equip 2pc T9:
Put on MA:
Switch to your normal gear:

you have to do that every time you buff MA.


If you read my post carefully you'd see that I am quite aware of both its application and implication. The point I was addressing was that there was no valid reason to be criticizing this in the first place. Buffs that are currently active do not get replaced/overwritten by merely swapping gear with the possible exception of buffs tied directly to an item such as trinkets (which, if they were effected, would be removed completely, not altered).

#1046 semata

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:59 AM

So far everyone that has tested the t9 bug have confirmed higher crit rates.

prehaps you are not aware of how to perform it?.


So far none of the results we have seen are statistically speaking reliable. It's just as likely that the higher crit rate that has been supposedly observed are simply variations due to RNG, and there's no logs backing them up either way. Until someone comes along with logs with perhaps upwards of 10k casts we don't actually know if this bug isn't just a interface issue.

#1047 Maje

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 12:31 PM

Kind of pointless discussion and analysis, the bug was fixed in 3.3.5 so from that, one can assume it's the genuine article.

However the horrible part is how they chose to fix it; now every time you change a piece of gear Molten Armor is removed, and by every I mean ANY piece, you change your weapon it's removed, your of hand it's removed.

EDIT: even worse, every time my mage enters an instance, teleports or other wise experiences PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD event Molten Armor gets removed. Could you spell swatting a fly with sledgehammer.

This starts a new era of extreme annoyance of recasting MA every time you use the teleporter in an instance. I posted a bug report on the eu PTR forums, is someone could repost that in the US forums as well it could be helpful.

#1048 Morthoul

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:42 AM

remove please

#1049 Riptor

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 07:50 AM

Kind of pointless discussion and analysis, the bug was fixed in 3.3.5 so from that, one can assume it's the genuine article.

However the horrible part is how they chose to fix it; now every time you change a piece of gear Molten Armor is removed, and by every I mean ANY piece, you change your weapon it's removed, your of hand it's removed.

EDIT: even worse, every time my mage enters an instance, teleports or other wise experiences PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD event Molten Armor gets removed. Could you spell swatting a fly with sledgehammer.

This starts a new era of extreme annoyance of recasting MA every time you use the teleporter in an instance. I posted a bug report on the eu PTR forums, is someone could repost that in the US forums as well it could be helpful.


Did you have any Chance to test it on Halion? As far as I have seen there is some Phase shifting which requires us to use a Teleport. I could absolutly live with having to recast MA every time i use a Teleport or enter a Instance, but recasting it midfight in P3 of Lichking and Halion would be an annoyance.

#1050 crystalflame

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 05:54 AM

Hello, this might have been answered already but i couldn't find information on it :(
With the haste proc benefit from the T10 as a mage, take a look at the fallowing scenario:
scorch is up,living bomb is up and you are fireballing:
hotstreak procs
pyroblast
fireball
hoststreak procs

Now since the buff from T10 is still on, do you go ahead and pyroblast right away, or you wait and fireball untill the buff is almost off and then pyroblast in order to keep the haste buff up.
What is better for dps, i have been hesitating on using pyroblast right away, and instead just fireball once more and then do it in order to keep the haste buff on as much as i can.

Is this correct or no? thanks ^^

#1051 kamap

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 08:48 AM

You can hang on to the hot streak aslong as there is no chance you will overwrite it.
So if your next fireball crits, you cast another fireball and pyro right after.
If it didn't crit you can hang onto it a cast longer and get the most out of your haste buff.
If there are multiple mobs and living bomb is about to go boom, fire pyro, the chance is to big that the living bomb explosion will give you another hot streak.

So best thing to do is hang onto it till there is a chance you'll get another hot streak, or till pushing the limit has run out.

A few pages back there has been an discussion about it check: http://elitistjerks....07/#post1634170

#1052 Chillchaos

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 11:24 AM

scorch is up,living bomb is up and you are fireballing:
hotstreak procs
pyroblast
fireball
hoststreak procs

This above scenario couldn't happen as such, since pyroblast doesn't count towards HS procs.
The only way it could happen as such, would be if your LB went of in the mean while.

And in that case, the answer to your question is easy.
Hold on to the HS proc, refresh LB first! :D

#1053 kamap

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 11:35 AM

Its true that the example can't happen, but its not true that you then have to refresh LB first, it has all to do with your haste, if you are able to push out an extra fb, while under PTL by not refreshing LB might be more beneficial if you don't have a chance to overwrite a hs proc.
Just check the previous discussion I linked before.

#1054 Morthoul

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 06:34 PM

Kind of pointless discussion and analysis, the bug was fixed in 3.3.5 so from that, one can assume it's the genuine article.

However the horrible part is how they chose to fix it; now every time you change a piece of gear Molten Armor is removed, and by every I mean ANY piece, you change your weapon it's removed, your of hand it's removed.

Just for the record (for people going through old posts and wondering why we talk about something that never happened), the fix was reverted on the PTR and never went live. Most likely, Blizzard realized that the fix had too many side-effects and the cure was worse than the disease -- something several of us pointed out on the PTR forum.

#1055 Kolenzo

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:02 AM

Hello, this might have been answered already but i couldn't find information on it :(
With the haste proc benefit from the T10 as a mage, take a look at the fallowing scenario:
scorch is up,living bomb is up and you are fireballing:
hotstreak procs
pyroblast
fireball
hoststreak procs

Now since the buff from T10 is still on, do you go ahead and pyroblast right away, or you wait and fireball untill the buff is almost off and then pyroblast in order to keep the haste buff up.
What is better for dps, i have been hesitating on using pyroblast right away, and instead just fireball once more and then do it in order to keep the haste buff on as much as i can.

Is this correct or no? thanks ^^


This is correct, hang on to your hot streak until your 2pce expires unless you risk it being overwritten. In order to do this effectively, you need to monitor your crits, duration remaining on living bomb (and how many targets the explosion will hit) and any spells you have midair. For example:

Living bomb has 1.5 sec left
2pce has 2.5 sec left
You just launched a fireball and it's midair still

In this situation, you would want to use your pyroblast.

Living bomb has 6 sec left
2pce has 2 sec left
You have one previous crit and are halfway through another fireball

Again, in this situation, drop your pyro as soon as the fireball cast ends or you risk your hotstreak being overwritten.

Living bomb has 5 sec left
2pce has 3 sec left
No previous crits, fireball midair

In this situation, cast another fireball. If the midair fireball doesn't crit, you can cast another fireball after that one before burning your hot streak.

Any time your living bomb is going to hit 2 or more targets, I would recommend firing pyroblast before that explosion.




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