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Druid changes Patch 3.08


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#1 Sadirin

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:30 PM

* Feral Attack Power: All weapons now have the potential to grant feral attack power based on their dps (as compared to the best superior-quality weapons available at level 60). Players will see their existing feral weapons grant roughly the same attack power as they did before (+/- 2 or so), but many new weapons will be options for the feral druid. Some feral weapons have had strength converted to attack power to be more appealing to other classes able to equip them. All druids will see the amount of feral attack power granted by an item in the item tooltip, if it grants any, but other players will not see that information.
* Genesis: Now works with Tranquility and Hurricane.
* King of the Jungle - The Bear effect is now physical, and thus cannot be dispelled.
* Nature's Grace - Now also effects Revive.
* Primal Tenacity: Now reduces the cost of Bear Form, Cat Form, and Dire Bear Form by 17/33/50% in addition to its previous effects.
* Protector of the Pack: No longer changes value based on party size.
* Savage Roar: The buff now persists outside of Cat Form but only provides its benefits while in Cat Form.
* Starfall will now be cancelled by any shapeshifting.
* Survival of the Fittest: This talent now grants 22/44/66% bonus armor in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form in addition to all of its previous effects.
* Swipe: Swipe (Cat) has now been added at level 71, dealing 260% weapon damage, costs 50 energy with no cooldown. All talents affecting the Bear Form version affect the Cat Form one as well.
* Wild Growth now has a 6 second cooldown.

Bonus Armor: The mechanics for items with bonus armor on them has changed (any cloth, leather, mail, or plate items with extra armor, or any other items with any armor). Bonus armor beyond the base armor of an item will no longer be multiplied by any talents or by the bonuses of Bear Form, Dire Bear Form, or Frost Presence.

=> mmo-champion.com

For me as a feral druid is of course the weapon change very interesting. Does anyone has an idea which 2h-maces /staffes from the paladin/dk/warrior/hunter corner will be an option for us?

#2 Erdluf

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:41 PM

For me as a feral druid is of course the weapon change very interesting. Does anyone has an idea which 2h-maces /staffes from the paladin/dk/warrior/hunter corner will be an option for us?


Wowhead search for Druid-usable weapons with a DPS > 200 gives:





Is the formula FAP = (DPS-55)*14, or should that "55" be something else?

#3 Inaiwae

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:48 PM

"Some feral weapons have had strength converted to attack power to be more appealing to other classes able to equip them."

This seems like a nerf, according to http://elitistjerks...._druid_numbers/ 1 str equals roughly 2.56 atp. So if they change this way,

114 str * 2.56 = cca 292 ATP for cat in raid
114 str = 228 ATP in itemization formula

So we'd lose cca 64 ATP.

Well, i was looking for this change for a long time (and i thought i'd never see it coming live). So bring it on anyway :).

#4 nau

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:17 PM

I am still completely baffled by the WG nerf being as hard as CoH, but I really don't think any of us will notice. I use it around 10-15% of my healing on any of the decent bosses. Is anyone going to feel the change really or are we all shrugging our shoulders?

I guess at the highest of spellpowers (~3k+) a non-cooldown WG could become insanely powerful, ticking for almost 1k the first time around. I am sitting at 830 on the first tick full raid buffed and it still just doesn't seem that strong.

#5 Vazu

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:42 PM

I am still completely baffled by the WG nerf being as hard as CoH, but I really don't think any of us will notice. I use it around 10-15% of my healing on any of the decent bosses. Is anyone going to feel the change really or are we all shrugging our shoulders?

I guess at the highest of spellpowers (~3k+) a non-cooldown WG could become insanely powerful, ticking for almost 1k the first time around. I am sitting at 830 on the first tick full raid buffed and it still just doesn't seem that strong.

The change will make Loatheb and Malygos very interesting. Loatheb in particular is going to require a little adjustment. I think with Malygos the strategy is just going to be throwing a Rejuv or LB on targets before everyone gets thrown into the air but with Loatheb the burden of AE healing will really shift to resto Shaman somewhat. Priests and Druids can help, but I don't think Shaman will be able to just spam Lightning Bolt anymore and let the Priests/Druids deal with healing the raid. Not that it matters. It's not like Loatheb is hard. But the first couple of attempts of each should be interesting.

#6 Windchilla

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:56 PM

Swipe: Swipe (Cat) has now been added at level 71, dealing 260% weapon damage, costs 50 energy with no cooldown. All talents affecting the Bear Form version affect the Cat Form one as well.


I really hope this is just rank 1 and it somehow scales to not completely suck. Lets see, two Swipe (Cats) on a full energy bar, or swap to Bear form for unlimited 2 target Mangle + unlimited all target Swipe...

It also builds no combo points, so the cost of 50 energy is absolutely absurd.

#7 Moof

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 04:40 PM

One thing you've missed:

Druid: Savage Fury - Mangle (Bear) damage was being increased by a higher percentage than intended. This has been fixed, and in result Mangle (Bear) should see roughly a 16% damage reduction. Also fixed a bug with Savage Fury where the Rake bleed effect was not being increased.


I had no idea about this. Bad news for bears of course, but that means our rakes so far have been underpowered? I have already been giggling at the huge rake ticks I've been having so a straight 20% increase is going to be fantastic!

Also, I had been suspecting the change to feral staves for a while. If they want them to be appealing to hunters, they'd have to change the str to AP otherwise they'd be only still only be useful to druids (and warriors to a lesser extent). I imagine it will be only the staves without armor designed for cat dps that will be receiving the change. I still have my fingers crossed for Polearms for druids though.

#8 Stigmata

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:05 PM

I imagine it will be only the staves without armor designed for cat dps that will be receiving the change. I still have my fingers crossed for Polearms for druids though.


I thought I read in one of the Druid change posts that they were removing the armor from all weapons, could have dreamt it?

#9 Moof

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:08 PM

The armour will remain, but will no longer be affected by the bear multiplier.

#10 Rhaegal

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 05:09 PM

They're just removing the armor multiplier for bear form working on armor that's on feral staves. The actual armor itself isn't going away, it's just that, for example, will only get you 700 armor in bear form, instead of several times that amount.
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#11 sadris

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 06:17 PM

I really hope this is just rank 1 and it somehow scales to not completely suck. Lets see, two Swipe (Cats) on a full energy bar, or swap to Bear form for unlimited 2 target Mangle + unlimited all target Swipe...

It also builds no combo points, so the cost of 50 energy is absolutely absurd.


Correct. Also note that in bear form, you can double-maul every ~2.3 seconds. People should bring up this point when the PTR forums go up. If it was Blizzard's intent to get us out of bear form while dpsing on trash, they failed miserably.

#12 Polynices

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:03 PM

[I'm a moron -- getting my swipes and primal furies mixed up]

#13 bejean

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:17 PM

Primal fury doesn't give energy on crits, it gives extra combo points for crits that would generate points. Since swipe won't generate CPs, we won't get anything when it crits (except possibly extra OOC procs? I forget how this works).

#14 ithecho84

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:21 PM

I think the cooldown change to WG is utterly disgusting. It makes no sense to lump it together with CoH-level of efficiency. I think a 3 second cooldown for WG while leaving CoH at 6 seconds is more in line. Now we'll be forced to spend more mana hot'ing everyone prior to an aoe.

#15 Cuer

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:50 PM

More from Ghostcrawler on converting Strength to AP, on feral weapons:

It will be a slight nerf, but we're talking such a slight nerf that I would be surprised if you noticed it.

An item like the Staff of Trickery would give you a 10 AP loss, or 30 AP with Kings, after this change.

We use a conversion of 1 Str = 2.33 AP with Survival of the Fittest and Kings. I'm not sure where the extra AP is coming from in the conversion quoted above.

...

I think to get that 2.56 you have to also multiply by the 10% AP Heart of the Wild bonus. But you get that regardless of whether the item gives you Strength or AP.

1 Str = 2 AP
2 AP * 1.06 for Survival of the Fittest = 2.12
2.12 AP * Imp Blessing of Kings = 2.32

In any case, we're talking about pretty small numbers for a Feral with 5000+ AP.



#16 effekt125

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:52 PM

I'm incredibly disappointed by cat swipe, at this point it is most likely still inferior to bear

#17 Diameter

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:55 PM

Correct. Also note that in bear form, you can double-maul every ~2.3 seconds. People should bring up this point when the PTR forums go up. If it was Blizzard's intent to get us out of bear form while dpsing on trash, they failed miserably.


I was calculating this out, and if you are attacking 5 or more enemies at once, you should see an increase in your damage using cat swipe (note: you need to have savage roar up). Of course, you need to spec into Feral Instinct to do the most damage (but both cat and bear swipes would be affected by this talent)

Also note that Ferocity should affect this skill and reduce the energy cost down to 45. Not that it's great, but it's something. It would also free up a major glyph for you, as Glyph of Maul would no longer be needed (at the moment, there really isn't a 3rd useful glyph for cats though).

I would also find it difficult to find many packs which have 5 or more enemies up for an extended period of time (skitterer packs die so quickly).

#18 Duilliath

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:04 PM

I remain disappointed with the armor change. Still no effort to make the oodles of *offensive* stats on our gear of any use with regards to the *survival* stats bears like. Not to mention gearing is 'dumbed' down even further. Make us care about more stats. Not less. Maybe with some big content patch when they've had more time to work out the remaining kinks, but I'm a bit dubious as I don't see them overhaul the system twice in a short time.
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#19 Krag

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:12 PM

A couple more bullets were added on mmo-champion:

* Growl range has been increased from 20 to 30 yards.
* Maim duration has been increased by 1 second. (3/4/5/6/7 seconds)
* Survival Instincts now temporarily grants you 30% of your current maximum health for 20 sec. (Old - 30% of your maximum health)

I'm guessing the Survival Instincts is 30% of current health (current maximum health is a little confusing). Maybe it was too good with the higher bear health pools. I'm just hoping they remember it if we do get the health modifier adjusted at some point.

#20 Mijae

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:17 PM

"Some feral weapons have had strength converted to attack power to be more appealing to other classes able to equip them."

This seems like a nerf, according to http://elitistjerks...._druid_numbers/ 1 str equals roughly 2.56 atp. So if they change this way,

114 str * 2.56 = cca 292 ATP for cat in raid
114 str = 228 ATP in itemization formula

So we'd lose cca 64 ATP.

Well, i was looking for this change for a long time (and i thought i'd never see it coming live). So bring it on anyway :).


Don't forget about HotW and Predatory Strikes (20% of any attack power on your equipped weapon).

114 str * 1.06 * 1.1 * 2 * 1.1 = 292 AP
228 AP * 1.1 * 1.2 = 301 AP

Unless they change Predatory Strikes, this will actually be a buff to us. For weapons only, attack power is better than strength (and we don't even need BoK for it).




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