Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:27 AM
Okay, I think this has gone on long enough. We all knew from the beginning that this wasn't a great topic for a thread, and a lot of you have contacted me questioning my decision to let it run as long as it has. And, frankly, it's looking like you were probably right. However, I believed that there was a reasonable discussion to have here, and was hoping our forum members were able to have it without it turning in to a repetitive whinefest. Apparently I was giving some of you entirely too much credit. To those of you who were trying to stay on topic, I thank you.
Now, before I start getting accusatory PMs from you folk (and I will) I want to take a minute to spell out why this thread is closing, and I assure you that it has nothing to do with the fact that I am or am not losing the debate here, nor does it have anything to do with the fact that I do or don't respect the opinions of all posters here. The reasoning looks something like this:
There are problems with the rogue class right now. There are other classes that do more damage than we do at the moment. Some of them are being adjusted next patch; some of them aren't (at least, so far). And a great number of rogues have said in these forums that a 3-5% buff to our damage would most likely bring us into line. This was decided within the first couple pages of the thread, so, really, all further discussion of the point is moot. We don't need eight thousand people coming to the thread to post "oh, and our DPS is bad, Blizzard needs to do something about it". We went over that already. Yes, our DPS is perhaps a hair on the low side. And we've said what's necessary to fix it. We don't need to talk about it again three times per page. But we are, because some people won't leave the fucking topic alone, and it's turning this thread into a repetitive whinefest.
Now, to answer the most common responses to that argument:
But a 3-5% buff isn't enough! I'm losing by like 12890123890128908 DPS on Patchwerk! WTF! - Other rogues, with decent gear, are competitive at the top levels. Oh, we don't always win - but we sometimes do (allbeit perhaps not as often as we should - see previous point about a possible need for a DPS buff). So if other rogues are close to top DPS - maybe a couple hundred low, but no more - and you're thousands behind losing to prot pallies - you need to ask yourself what the successful rogues are doing that you're not. Because if they're top 5 and you're 14th, that's not a problem with the class - that's you being undergeared, or you fucking up.
But a 3-5% buff would only put us competitive with the top couple DPS - we should be clearly ahead! - No, we shouldn't. Blizzard has stated that the days of us winning by facerolling purely by virtue of being rogues is over. All (or at least, most) classes should be able to do near-top DPS under Blizzard's current balance paradigm. On good rogue fights, this might lead to us being marginally ahead on certain fights; but we shouldn't be 5, or 10, or 20 percent ahead on all fights like a lot of you have been suggesting. We're supposed to be marginally ahead on good rogue fights, a bit behind on bad rogue fights, and competitive - meaning sometimes but not always winning - on those without any clear class favoritism.
But that's stupid! Blizzard's balance model is idiotic! If our DPS is only competitive we'll never get invited to a raid again! - Maybe, maybe not, but discussing balance in terms of anything other than Blizzard's stated balance goals is unproductive. That is what balance is going to be for the next while, and if it turns out that guilds aren't bringing competitive-DPS rogues for whatever reason, I imagine Blizzard will take another look at it. But that's not what's happening right now.
So, in short: the arguments over our DPS and overall balance have become quite circular, we're hitting on these points on the order of twice a page, and, frankly, it needs to stop. There are some other issues with the class - Poison Scaling, Expose Armor, and so forth - that might be worth discussing further, but as everyone seems to want to just whine about the same old problem rather than moving on to something productive, I guess we're not going to get that chance.