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WotLK Gem Index


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#1 Faerdael

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:55 PM

This thread is to provide a quick reference of gem prioritizaton for hunters in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. It is still recommended to consult the Hunter spreadsheet for a more detailed assesment of your personal gearing. Subject to change. Feedback is of course appreciated.

Beast Mastery
Red:

(*Jewelcrafting only)

Yellow:
(*if severely under hit cap.)
(*if severly under hit cap, Jewelcrafting only)

Blue:
Not recommended.

Orange:
(*if not hit capped)
(*if hit capped)

Purple:

(*if mana is a non-factor)

Green:
(*if not hit capped)
(*if not hit capped, and mana is a non-factor)
(*if hit capped)
(*if hit capped, and mana is a non-factor)
*Green gems are only advisable if to satisfy Meta requirement for both 1 Yellow and 1 Blue gem value. However, using a prismatic gem is generally superior to available greens.

Prismatic:

*A prismatic gem will fill all the requirements for Meta gem. In 3.2, the epic level prismatic gem is almost always a superior option to either purple or green gems for filling Meta requirements.

Meta:



Marksman
Red:
or or
or or (*Jewelcrafting only)

Yellow:
(*if severely under hit cap.)
(*if severly under hit cap, Jewelcrafting only)

Blue:
Not recommended.

Orange:
or (*if under hit cap)
or (*if hit capped, and over haste "soft-cap")

Purple:
or or
or (*if mana is a non-factor)

Green:
(*if not hit capped)
(*if not hit capped, and mana is a non-factor)
(*if hit capped and over haste "soft-cap")
(*if hit capped, over haste "soft-cap", and mana is a non-factor)
*Green gems are only advisable if to satisfy Meta requirement for both 1 Yellow and 1 Blue gem value. However, when using rare quality gems, using a prismatic gem is generally superior to available greens.

Prismatic:

*A prismatic gem will fill all the requirements for Meta gem. In 3.2, the epic level prismatic gem is almost always a superior option to either purple or green gems for filling Meta requirements.

Meta:


Three different options are listed for Marksman gemming. Raw attack power, Agility, and Armor Penetration. Attack power gems only seem to be beneficial for MM specs at the most entry level gearing (~200 and below ilvl). Armor Penetration gemming becomes viable at higher levels of gear past a certain threshold of ArP (generally ~650). The spreadsheet is the best indicator of when ArP passes Agility.


Survival
Red:

(*Jewelcrafting only)

Yellow:
(**if severely under hit cap.)
(*if severly under hit cap, Jewelcrafting only)

Blue:
Not recommended.

Orange:
(*if under hit cap)
(*if hit capped.)

Purple


Green:
(*if not hit capped)
(*if hit capped)
*Green gems are only advisable if to satisfy Meta requirement for both 1 Yellow and 1 Blue gem value. However, when using rare quality gems, using a prismatic gem is generally superior to available greens.

Prismatic:

*A prismatic gem will fill all the requirements for Meta gem. In 3.2, the epic level prismatic gem is almost always a superior option to either purple or green gems for filling Meta requirements.

Meta:



A few notes:
This is gauged primarily from spreadsheet calculations and existing in-game items. This does not suggest gemming values based on extended time durations (ie. the value of gemming a ). The following talents are assumed: Serpent Swiftness for BM, Combat Experience for MM, Hunter vs Wild + Lightning Reflexes for Surv, and Careful Aim for all specs.

#2 Jander

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:49 PM

General calculations are indicating that 2 Attack Power is currently of a higher DPS value than 1 Agility for 2 of the 3 hunter trees, which was the opposite of Burning Crusade standards. The exception to this is the Survival hunter, who receives +15% bonus to Agility, which tips the scales toward Agility as the more valuable stat. The marksman talent Combat Experience also provides an Agility multiplier, but does not appear to be sufficient to cause any shift in gem priority. No yellow gems were added other than Hit as they did not appear to yield any DPS over Orange options (this could change). Currently, WoW v3.0.8 changes to hunter DPS do not appear to alter gem prioritization.


At the top end of currently avaialbe gear and typical raid buffs (~6k AP and 45% crit) Agility is ahead of AP by 3% (.996 versus .967). At low end gear with 16 points in BM, AP was ahead for me but agility quickly overtook it. Gemming for Agility will also let you switch between marks and survival without regemming.

Marks is close enought that you should Gem AP if you might try out BM and gem AGI if you might raid as SV sometimes.

#3 Faerdael

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 11:21 PM

Jander, I see roughly the same with your toon on paper. About a .03 net dps gain switching from a Bright to a Delicate. With BM its rather pronounced that AP is superior and the invert is true for Survival. I'll really have to rethink how to describe MM. I'll revise accordingly.

#4 Whitefyst

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 12:21 AM

I was in the middle of a long post explaining that for MMs with 4% agility from Combat Experience how agility versions of AP gems are viable options since they have similar DPS and the agility gems also provide a little more dodge (0.25%), 32 armor, and more crit (0.22%), with the crit helping with abilities or items that proc from it. Then I saw the updates you made already per Jander's note and deleted most of it. Some good options that you are still missing for MM are:

Purple:
- or - since I do not have mana problems in raids I find the agi/AP + sta version the most useful

Green:
- - if you need hit and once again the sta instead of mp5 version for more survivability and do not have OOM problems
- - if you need haste

#5 mersenne

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:32 PM

How about for satisfying the blue gem requirement? At a glance, it seems like 6 Agi 6 Int 6 Stam is comparable to the purple options listed here.

#6 Vexia

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 03:34 PM

I think we'll probably see agility surpass AP again, on the 1:2 ratio next patch, with the nerf of the Steady Shot AP co-efficient. I haven't run any actual numbers on it, but it seems like a pretty solid guess to make.

#7 dssurge

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 11:33 PM

AP > AGI for quite some time as MM currently, but the amount by which is very very marginal. AP will probably always be better for BM because of how AP bleeds to pets.

#8 Esoth

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 09:29 PM

I think we'll probably see agility surpass AP again, on the 1:2 ratio next patch, with the nerf of the Steady Shot AP co-efficient. I haven't run any actual numbers on it, but it seems like a pretty solid guess to make.

This has been discussed before in some other threads. Short answer: no, AP will be worth the same amount relative to agi for BM as as it is worth now, if not more so.

#9 Harmann

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:28 AM

Jander, I see roughly the same with your toon on paper. About a .03 net dps gain switching from a Bright to a Delicate. With BM its rather pronounced that AP is superior and the invert is true for Survival. I'll really have to rethink how to describe MM. I'll revise accordingly.


I have no idea which gem comes out on top for a Marksmanship build, but I think the difference is so small that we can basically have two types of Hunters:

Those who gem with Brights (AP) and can pretty effectively switch between BM and Marks specs.

Those who gem with Delicate (Agil) and can very effectively switch between Marks and Survival specs.

I'm inclined to say Agility is better for Marksmanship cause of the little 4% boost the tree offers it... also Marks crit numbers are pretty high to say the least.

Marks Hunter with raid buffs:

100 Agility = 125.8 AP & 1.37% Crit
200 Attack = 220 AP

Survival Hunter with raid buffs:

100 Agility = 173.9 AP & 1.52% Crit
200 Attack = 220 AP

Obviously SV is the Agility spec, everyone knew that... but the scaling difference is quite pronounced compared to Marks, guess I just felt like doing a little math to show the difference.

#10 Serpent's Choice

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 03:58 PM

All else being equal, I am not a huge fan of Enchanted Tears. However, for agi-based characters (especially SV hunters), blue slots are currently problematic, since Shifting Twilight Opal (agi/sta) does not appear to be in game at current. In its absence, Enchanted Tear is probably the best option, at least for the first blue slot.

#11 Faerdael

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 04:27 PM

Actually I am seeing roughly on par with the Purple selections in-game currently, give or take, perhaps slightly under. Where they really shine is if needing a to fill both a Yellow and Blue socket for Meta requirements; I don't see any Green gems that are really comparable at the rare quality level (even +hit/(blue) gems). This is likely different at the epic gem level, since I don't believe there are any epic equivalents of the .

To elaborate on the AP gem topic, there are a few factors attributing to the apparent viability right now (for BM).
Agility at level 70 was worth .025% crit per point - at level 80 its down to .012% so the effective crit value is diminished while 14 AP still = 1 dps. Pet scaling has moved up to 22% and AP is the only value we have to directly scale up pet damage; with all the +damage modifiers in the BM tree, pets scale amazingly well with AP. Pre-WotLK, Agility got an extra +10% via Blessing of Kings in raids; in WotLK AP also scales by +10% in raid due to Trueshot Aura/Abomination's Might/Unleashed Rage. Lastly (and rather minor) is that Serpent Sting is now a viable part of the rotaion, and can only scale through AP.

I am noticing a few of these gem cuts may be currently not yet implemented (Shifting, Tenuous cuts?). If you notice one, please feel free to note it.

#12 Kathucka

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 11:47 PM

Hmmm. So, is Agility currently beating Crit Rating in all cases? If not, it seems like would be a good choice.

#13 Æthien

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:03 AM

Hey, are you ok with me using this list in my WotLK Pre-Raid gear & more thread on TKAsomething and Allakhazam?
As it is much better than what is in there at the moment.

You'll get the credits of course.

#14 Garby

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:43 AM

Hmmm. So, is Agility currently beating Crit Rating in all cases? If not, it seems like would be a good choice.

The fact that Agility is better aside, the extra blue gem requirement on the CSD is another hard knock against it.

#15 Ralektra

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:50 PM

For hunters that want to improve the size of their mana pool [Brilliant Autumn's Glow] (I apologize, I haven't learned how to link items yet) would be helpful. If you have [Careful Aim] as part of your talent build, then it will also be a direct DPS increse, albeit a small one.

Edit: Thank you Garby for the wonderful instructions on linking items. I linked the items in this post.

#16 Garby

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:07 AM

For hunters that want to improve the size of their mana pool a Brilliant Autumn's Glow (I apologize, I havent learned how to link items yet) would be helpful. If you have Careful Aim as part of your talent build, then it will also be a direct DPS increse, albeit a small one.

The gem is actually pretty decent at increasing your AP; it provides the same amount of AP as an agility gem. However, it would really only be worthwhile if you needed to decrease your Viper uptime; in a 25 man raid, I can't seem to spend my mana no matter what; this isn't necessarily the case in a 10 man or heroic, however.

And to link items, type the text you want to appear; then, copy the URL from Wowhead, highlight the text you want to link to the item, and click the hyperlink button (the glove with a paperclip below it). Paste the URL into the field, and you will have an item link. For reference, I modified the items in your original post to be links, so you can make sure you're doing it right.

#17 Hashash

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 07:40 PM

Would a be a feasible option until is implemented, you only lose 1 pt ea. agi/stam. I know it is an ugly green gem but the stats that you are looking for are there.
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#18 data261

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 11:14 PM

looking at your gems for mm hunters.....what exactly is the haste "softcap" you mention....i cant find these numbers anywhere (though im sure its mentioned somewhere)

#19 Æthien

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 12:51 AM

looking at your gems for mm hunters.....what exactly is the haste "softcap" you mention....i cant find these numbers anywhere (though im sure its mentioned somewhere)


at rougly 5% haste you'll be able to fit 5 steadies in between chimera shots, and until you are fully hastecapped that gives better dps than delaying chimera for an extra steadyshot.

(that is, if I'm not mistaken, I haven't been MM since well before 3.0)

#20 Faerdael

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:17 AM

Would a be a feasible option until is implemented, you only lose 1 pt ea. agi/stam. I know it is an ugly green gem but the stats that you are looking for are there.

If you are talking about Survival then yes, that would be logical, although at that point you may want to give an a close look. If for MM then no, go for the one of the other options.

As far as the goes, I'll add it to the list. They really aren't too bad for yellow options when considering CA (which all pve specs should have), but of course gemming int is a very personal decision. Biggest downfall really is that there isn't an Orange gem with Int for us. An orange gem will always have value over 16 int until you get to sustained durations of Viper time. Perhaps there is a "% of time in Viper" threshold where the Int gem can overtake the Orange options; I don't have a definitive answer on that.

A note on the 3.0.8 patch; haste gems have a lesser value than they do on at live, with more of shot rotations involving instants, to which the benefit of haste is nil. Assuming the accepted rotation involves a 6s instant, a 10s instant and a sting/chimera refresh, crit looks will likely be always better than haste for all specs when considering "yellow" stats. Expect this list to change in accordance with 3.0.8 going live.




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