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WotLK Gem Index


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#41 Asarra

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:21 PM

(*if severely under hit cap.)


This comment implies that reaching the hit cap is a goal, when it is not. It depends on your gear and spec. The agility or AP gems may be a better choice than the hit gems.

#42 Vitaro

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:28 AM

This comment implies that reaching the hit cap is a goal, when it is not. It depends on your gear and spec. The agility or AP gems may be a better choice than the hit gems.


I don't understand. Reaching hit cap is probably the very first goal a raiding hunter should have when juggling stats. If you mean to say that there are better ways to reach said hit-cap (through gear and spec) then you are at only partially right. Your most true statement is that it depends on your gear - but gemming is the no. 1 way to compensate for lacking hit from it.

#43 zápdos

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 11:08 PM

Actually if you use maxdps correctly you'll find that it gives all the correct choices. UNBUFFED the best choice of gem is ArP - however if you go to the 'buffs' tab (near your stats) you can enable them all and all the items there are correct for raids. You'll notice that ArP is less useful according to the spreadsheets there :)

#44 Garby

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 05:12 AM

Actually if you use maxdps correctly you'll find that it gives all the correct choices. UNBUFFED the best choice of gem is ArP

Not according to Shandara's. I loaded my character, stripped all buffs, and then traded the in my shoulders for a , to the tune of a 4 dps loss.

#45 Asarra

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 05:41 PM

I don't understand. Reaching hit cap is probably the very first goal a raiding hunter should have when juggling stats. If you mean to say that there are better ways to reach said hit-cap (through gear and spec) then you are at only partially right. Your most true statement is that it depends on your gear - but gemming is the no. 1 way to compensate for lacking hit from it.


In my situation, 1 Hit Rating is worth .417 dps, while 1 AP is worth .231 dps (according to Shandra's spreadsheet and assuming I'm not making a mistake). Therefore, Rigid Autumn's Glow is worth 6.7 dps and Bright Scarlet Ruby is worth 7.4 dps. I should choose the AP gem since my goal is to maximize dps.

Note: the dps values vary greatly depending on buffs, but in all cases the AP gem is better for me. Also note: the socket bonus sometimes makes a difference.


Edit: I played around with my hit rating and found that the value of additional hit rating becomes less as it approaches the cap. With my hit rating around 100 the two gems have about the same dps value, but at higher ratings the AP gem has a higher dps.

#46 Fierra

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 05:48 PM

In my situation, 1 Hit Rating is worth .417 dps, while 1 AP is worth .231 dps (according to Shandra's spreadsheet and assuming I'm not making a mistake). Therefore, Rigid Autumn's Glow is worth 6.7 dps and Bright Scarlet Ruby is worth 7.4 dps. I should choose the AP gem since my goal is to maximize dps.

Note: the dps values vary greatly depending on buffs, but in all cases the AP gem is better for me. Also note: the socket bonus sometimes makes a difference.


While this is technically true, also remember that hit rating transfers to your pet, and unless you have 8%+ hit rating, RNG can take you for a walk mid-boss fight, causing a string of misses, regardless of the probability of it. It's usually just safer to cap hit first, especially when the dps difference is as close as what you've quoted above.

#47 Guest_alarge_*

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

In my situation, 1 Hit Rating is worth .417 dps, while 1 AP is worth .231 dps (according to Shandra's spreadsheet and assuming I'm not making a mistake). Therefore, Rigid Autumn's Glow is worth 6.7 dps and Bright Scarlet Ruby is worth 7.4 dps. I should choose the AP gem since my goal is to maximize dps.

Note: the dps values vary greatly depending on buffs, but in all cases the AP gem is better for me. Also note: the socket bonus sometimes makes a difference.


Just to check something... Is it 1 AP that is worth .231 dps? Or is it "per item budget"? If it is the latter, then you are only getting 16*.231 = 3.7 dps for that gem, since the item budget consumes 2 AP.

#48 Asarra

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:10 PM

Just to check something... Is it 1 AP that is worth .231 dps? Or is it "per item budget"? If it is the latter, then you are only getting 16*.231 = 3.7 dps for that gem, since the item budget consumes 2 AP.


That's the dps value, not the per item budget value.

#49 Esoth

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:17 PM

That's the dps value, not the per item budget value.

That doesn't sound right and is very different from anything I've seen in there. Are you sure you're not looking at pet hit?

#50 Guest_alarge_*

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:27 AM

That doesn't sound right and is very different from anything I've seen in there. Are you sure you're not looking at pet hit?


I had also never seen a case where AP was valued higher than hit for someone who wasn't hit-capped, but I loaded him from the armory into the spreadsheet, and with no or minimal buffs, this is the case. Interestingly, I show intellect as his most valuable stat, followed by raw AP, followed by hit.

#51 Natalis

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:15 AM

I had also never seen a case where AP was valued higher than hit for someone who wasn't hit-capped, but I loaded him from the armory into the spreadsheet, and with no or minimal buffs, this is the case. Interestingly, I show intellect as his most valuable stat, followed by raw AP, followed by hit.



It's true that being hit capped is one of the most important things for a hunter, especially considering how easy it can be. However, if you are only 10 points or so away from the cap it isn't necessary to socket a 16 hit gem instead of a 16 agi gem. Being that close the hit cap you will almost never miss, and for most fights you will never miss once.

#52 Guest_alarge_*

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 03:49 PM

It's true that being hit capped is one of the most important things for a hunter, especially considering how easy it can be. However, if you are only 10 points or so away from the cap it isn't necessary to socket a 16 hit gem instead of a 16 agi gem. Being that close the hit cap you will almost never miss, and for most fights you will never miss once.


Obviously you don't need to socket a 16 hit gem if you only need 10 hit (note that is not the case with the guy I was responding to: he was about 30 points short of the cap if I remember correctly).

The whole "almost never miss" argument is flawed in two fundamental ways:

1. Nobody is claiming that if you are at 7.9% hit that it is a huge dps loss. There is nothing "magic" about being hit capped. However, the question isn't the absolute value of hit, it is the relative value. Should you add a hit gem or an AP/AGI gem? It is almost always the case (this guy being one of the rare exceptions), that hit has a higher impact on dps (for the same item budget) than any other stat -- all the way up to the cap. If you are only 10 points shy of the cap, however, it may be the case that a hit/agi gem (that still leaves you 2 below the cap) provides a better dps gain than a straight hit gem (where 6 of the 10 points are wasted).

2. Hit is transferred to your pet in whole percentages. So if you were at 7.9% hit, your pet would only be at 7%. While you'd only miss an average of 1/1000 shots, your pet would miss 1/100. For BM, where your pet will actually do more dps than you do on many fights, this is a real concern. Note that this is also why Focused Aim (whose hit does not transfer to pets) is often a bad choice -- especially for BM hunters.

#53 Esoth

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 04:20 PM

I had also never seen a case where AP was valued higher than hit for someone who wasn't hit-capped, but I loaded him from the armory into the spreadsheet, and with no or minimal buffs, this is the case. Interestingly, I show intellect as his most valuable stat, followed by raw AP, followed by hit.

Why would you gem assuming no buffs? To be brutally honest, Asarra's talent build is wildly different from anything that would be recommended for BM on this site, and that's obviously going to mean that the "common rules" don't necessarily work here.

#54 lifesense

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 10:00 AM

-n.y.i.


i. as of 3.1.

#55 brokenarrow

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 10:32 PM

I'm a little confused about the prismatic gem. If I place a delicate dragon's eye in one of the blue sockets, does it also count as a yellow for my meta?

#56 Ashenmoor

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:19 PM

I'm a little confused about the prismatic gem. If I place a delicate dragon's eye in one of the blue sockets, does it also count as a yellow for my meta?


Yes jc dragon eye cuts count as every color.

#57 Guest_aammm_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:34 PM

so how does it work with the new patch 3.1
it been said that players benefit 25% extra on the armor penetration, so what should a survival hunter choose the agility gems or the armor penetration gems?

#58 Iru

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:47 PM

Given that ArP only affects physical shots, no hunter should chose ArP gems over agility (SV & maybe MM) or AP (BM & maybe MM), as the increased damage from non-physical shots, e.g. Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting more than covers the gap and wouldn't get anything from ArP anyway.

The only possible exception is BM where, as TrevvyTrev likes to remind us, autoshot is a significant part of a hunter's damage output. Even there though, ArP isn't going to be a huge value-add because it doesn't transfer to your pet.

#59 TrevvyTrev

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:38 PM

The only possible exception is BM where, as TrevvyTrev likes to remind us, autoshot is a significant part of a hunter's damage output. Even there though, ArP isn't going to be a huge value-add because it doesn't transfer to your pet.


Probably not even then. The problem with the ArP gems is that they are red, and both AGI and AP seem to be better options for any spec. Fractured (ArP) gems aren't as flat-out horrible as they used to be, though, so if for some reason or another you want to slot a new item with one until something better comes along, it's not too bad (at least for BM). I show a few dps lost for every AP gem that I replace with ArP in the spreadsheet. I have also noticed that the conventional wisdom that ArP gets better the more of it you already have seems to hold up. The per-point gap between ArP and AGI/AP is closing, and ArP is now ahead of crit.

This is all limited to my current gear/spec of course.

#60 Vøà d

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 05:23 PM

At this point in 3.1 I'm staying with survival and now that 8agi/12 stam gem is out I was wondering if it was worth it to swap my ap gems out seeing as I already have 36.5 unbuffed crit. Unfortunately I can't run the spreadsheet to figure the numbers out myself.
here is my armory link since I have the stupid characters in my name

The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you in advance for your responses.




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