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DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10


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#761 Gort

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 02:10 AM

I would keep in mind, I haven't run the math for awhile, but since Icy Touch doesn't scale from weapon damage, there is a point where your regular abilitys will generate more threat, and obviously a lot more dps with a better weapon. My Heart strikes seem to generate at least as much threat with my 264 2 hander as an Icy Touch.


This point is not attainable in this expansion, and likely not in the next.

Assume IT hits for 1000; a fairly conservative figure. IT base threat = 7x damage, for 7000 threat. Frost Presence then applies, for a 2.04 multiplier, leaving a total of 14,280 threat. HS would, of course, need to hit harder than 7000 damage after armor modification to exceed this figure.

Now, let's assume 7000 AP. This is likely to be too high for tank gear, but who knows, I haven't looked at mine buffed. It's ballpark, and would give you a 1076 average IT assuming Imp. IT, which unless someone else is providing Imp. TC you take. Assume also a heroic Ramaladni's, a 294.7 DPS weapon, 3.5 speed, 825-1238 damage. Crit rate, etc are left aside for the moment; we just want hits right now.

HS is 50% weapon damage, modified by Bloody Strikes for +45% damage, make that 69%.

Average weapon damage from the axe is 1031.5, round up to 1032. 69% of this is 712. Instants follow the equation normalized_damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14), where X is a weapon-type-dependent value, in this case 3.3 for a 2her. Substituting in gives us:

normalized_damage = 712 + (3.3 * 7000 /14)

Which we can then proceed to solve for:

normalized_damage = 712 + (1650)

and then of course

normalised damage = 2362.

Thus, the average HS hit with a heroic Ramaladni's at 7000 AP is, pre-armor, 2362 points of damage. Add 20% for a 2-disease strike, and you have 2834. It is safe to say that we have a full stack of Dark Conviction, so adding a further 9% to that gives us 3089 damage, rounded up. With the 2.04 modifier from Frost Presence, we have a total of 6301 threat, assuming a 0-armor target.

So to say it again:

IT threat: 14,280.
HS threat: 6301.

There is simply no comparison.

#762 Zeofist

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 09:56 AM

On what fights in ICC would the talent's Acclimation in the frost talent tree be useful? It is overlooked by many talent builds including the talent build's including the three posted originally. I am curious as to why it is not taken as a serious survivability talent.

#763 Kaibah

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:14 AM

As a personal opinion, Acclimation is a situational ability at best and for the most part in ICC fights, gives minimal benefit if any at all. Lets pull out a few examples here, both for and against:

Marrowgar: Most of the damage your likely to be taking as a tank is melee/cleaves, with perhaps the odd tick here and there of coldflame should it be tossed in your direction (which I have had happen a few times and it's annoying as hell), and bonestorm on heroic mode hits like a truck. All this damage, bar coldflame, is physical, so acclimation has greatly diminished value for 3 very valuable tallent points.

Saurfang: All the damage is physical meaning acclimation has 0 benefit.

Festergut: Although there is the ticking shadow damage from the blight cloud and the big hit from his exhale, the vast majority of tank damage is physical.

However, there are times when I could see acclimation being useful, mostly on Sindragosa and Deathwhisper. The trouble is where you would take those talent points for acclimation from. There really isn't anything that you can get rid of that doesn't provide more regular benefit, or a higher benefit for the same amount of use. It'd be nice to get it on magic-heavy fights, trouble is there aren't a great many of them and the cost to pick it up outweighs its situational benefits. Thats how I understand it at least, but I could be wrong.

#764 Slay the Awesome

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 12:12 AM

However, there are times when I could see acclimation being useful, mostly on Sindragosa and Deathwhisper. The trouble is where you would take those talent points for acclimation from. There really isn't anything that you can get rid of that doesn't provide more regular benefit, or a higher benefit for the same amount of use. It'd be nice to get it on magic-heavy fights, trouble is there aren't a great many of them and the cost to pick it up outweighs its situational benefits. Thats how I understand it at least, but I could be wrong.


With Sindragosa you'll already be wearing frost resistance, so with acclimation you'd be recieving only partial benefit. (I wear 2 pieces of FR for heroic mode).
And with Deathwhisper the fight calls for high threat (you'll be giving up dps/threat talents)/the frostbolts should be getting interupted. So that's two reasons against using acclimation.

So yeah, the cons definitely outweigh the marginal benefits.

#765 Taiyoken

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 01:13 AM

Acclimation is pretty much useless on Sindragosa. Breaths are 45 seconds apart (or 40), and the buff lasts 18 seconds. Basically, acclimation will never be active during a frost breath, which is like the only reason you wear frost resist. Okay fine, you'll take minor damage from Frost Aura, but that isn't the source of deaths to a tank anyway.

#766 Cesrae

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 07:09 AM

Most of the deaths from sindragosa are from melee usually after a breath or in the last phase when healers are losing.

We have 3 abilites we can use for her breaths assuming you have.
You should have boss mod timers which will allow you to time your cd's so that it will be back up for the next round of breaths. I like to pre for first breath, Pre IBF second breath, and have ams for third breath. Usually there is only 1 time when IBF is down and you can just call for a external cd. Breaths should never be a problem unless your getting to many stacks of the buffet at the end of the fight.

As a side note, I like to switch to blood usually just for this fight. One of the major reasons is for the self heals. Also remember that there are 2 bosses that can parry haste and one of them is Sindragosa. Make sure you stack some expertise if you are getting gibbd.

Acclimation and Spell deflection are not reliable.

#767 Ridan

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 08:48 AM

You can launch your Anti Magic Shell 1s before the first breath and it will be back for the third breath, and then use the trinket for the second one.

#768 Pentagram

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:43 PM

Would acclimation be able to proc from Frost Aura - Spell - World of Warcraft on sindra?

#769 Torn

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:34 PM

I believe we have reached a point where DW tanking doesn't make sense anymore and we can close/archive this topic.

#770 riggins

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 09:45 PM

I disagree, it will still have its time and place, but you're right about archiving the topic. I'm sure all relevant information will be available in the DK Endgame Tank Thread.

#771 alfi

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:00 PM

No need for a separate tanking thread. Keep both 2h and DW tanking discussion to the Cataclysm end-game tanking thread.




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