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Sartharion 3D Druid MT tips


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#41 cana

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:23 AM

I had the same issue seeing the Torment debuff - I set up a custom Grid Debuff Aura as a 99 priority center icon, and it appeared consistently (it looked like the Vampiric Embrace icon). However, I can't get BuffBars to find it, nor does my custom SCT Alert show it. I have a hunch it has something to do with the source of the debuff being in the twilight realm, but that doesn't explain why Grid shows it.


I guess that's because Grid only updates Debuffs in an intervall greater than the time TT actually is inactive.
For Sarthaion+3, I'm using a seperate group of Elkano's BuffBars with really big bars solely filtering my own debuffs, works fine.

#42 Daboran

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:26 AM

Best and least-fussy way I've found to deal with debuffs on yourself is to install Buffalo. Move the debuff frame to above your character's head and enlarge by a little.
This way you can always see debuffs on your own character without having to look for them elsewhere in the UI. Also it's very fast to respond and I find it 100% reliable for attacking to remove TT before each Flame Breath hits.

#43 Falk

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:12 AM

Strange. Elkano's Buff Bars shows Torment just fine... If you have problems seeing the debuff, are you using any buff/debuff mods, or the default interface?

#44 Monedula

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:59 PM

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#45 Thessaly

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 04:29 PM

If you want more stamina scrolls can help you there. Latest PTR notes and mmo-champoin stated, most likely the 3.0.8 patchnotes say:

This means that fortitude no longer overwrites scroll of stamina VIII.
That is 132 extra stamina. Very useful for this fight.


I don't think they stack, it just means that a larger buff won't remove the scroll buff. It's not particularly relevant for the stamina scrolls, since the stamina buffs are all longer than 30 min. The problem was with agi and str scrolls being overwritten by totems or Horn of Winter. The wording of the patch doesn't imply that they'll stack, just that they can coexist.

#46 Monedula

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:23 PM

I don't think they stack, it just means that a larger buff won't remove the scroll buff. It's not particularly relevant for the stamina scrolls, since the stamina buffs are all longer than 30 min. The problem was with agi and str scrolls being overwritten by totems or Horn of Winter. The wording of the patch doesn't imply that they'll stack, just that they can coexist.

Indeed, I probably assumed too much. It should probably indeed be seen as the MotW and Shadow prot buffs. Though MotW will give shadow protection (as stated in the tooltip of the buff) this is not used because it is overwritten by Shadow protection.

#47 killets

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:41 PM

I've had Guardian Spirit save me in bear form. Unless its a bug that doesn't always happen...


It's supposedly fixed in 3.0.8, but it's been noted here:
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC: Direct Priest Questions ONLY

It looks like Ghostcrawler here pretty much acknowledges that it wasn't working.

There are also multiple threads on this here:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Guardian Spirit and Bear Tanks
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [HUGE BUG] Guardian Spirit

Anyways, probably not worth further discussing, since its "supposedly" fixed, but it didn't work on Sartharion breaths for me.

I am clearly out of touch with how resists work now, it seems that it no longer follows a 0-25-50-75-100 percentage scale.


I'm pretty sure they work on a 10% scale now, which provides more even resists (although it's still random). I unfortunately didn't find many good resources researching this, and I suppose that most people have no motivation to do so because there isn't a fight in game that really stresses resists at all.

All the old resources regarding resists, including wowwiki, are all outdated now.

#48 thalys

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:26 PM

As a minor note here, Torment shucking is out the window, so you're going to need either fantastic DPS on Shadron or some cooldown help to survive the hard crossover. Whether it was a wise way to go is moot, as they've apparently changed it from dropping and reapplying to just having an ICD on the damage you take from it.

#49 kalbear

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:58 PM

I'm trying the method of stacking FR gear. So far it's looking promising; I'm taking much less damage than I was before. I am hoping that barkskin->instincts->barkskin should make it through three breaths, and then the 4th I can hopefully be or Shadron will be dead. I have, IIRC, 280 FR with raid buffs, flask and gear.

Assuming the server lag abates, we're hoping to try this tonight. I'll let you know how it works.

ETA: you can, by the way, get rid of the debuff by hitting one of the blazes apparently. Faerie fire works for this as well. You may want to taunt and tank a pet blaze during the easier parts of the fight and use that to get rid of the debuff.

#50 Pzychotix

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:22 AM

As a minor note here, Torment shucking is out the window, so you're going to need either fantastic DPS on Shadron or some cooldown help to survive the hard crossover. Whether it was a wise way to go is moot, as they've apparently changed it from dropping and reapplying to just having an ICD on the damage you take from it.

That's gonna hurt a bit.

Although 25-man will likely have enough people to cover you for cooldown rotations, 10-man is going to be extremely harder now.

#51 Ger

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:45 AM

Its needed 335 resistance (4th step) to get 1% chance of getting full damage (down from 5th step or 415 resistance before WotLK) right now.
Math:
130 - aura/totem, 25 - head, 20 - back, 35 - flask(+18 stats as well), 125 remained - badge gloves, badge legs, epic fr ring.
So you need only 125 gear resistance to get "permanent" breath reduction. You loose 2-3k health on this, but imho 20% stable breath reduction worth it. The breath is one of the main problems of this event.

#52 Yaelle

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:32 PM

As a minor note here, Torment shucking is out the window, so you're going to need either fantastic DPS on Shadron or some cooldown help to survive the hard crossover. Whether it was a wise way to go is moot, as they've apparently changed it from dropping and reapplying to just having an ICD on the damage you take from it.


You can combine the two. Since the encounter has changed, we tried to burn Tenebron without bloodlust/heroism, aiming at having him down before he hatches for the 2nd time. Since this worked fine for us, we used bloodlust/heroism on Shadron ignoring his add. It looked quite promising, then the server started lagging. Once Shadron is dead dps immediately uses the portal to kill the add. Once that has happened the threat of being oneshot is eliminated.

You should only have a short time in which both adds are alive, which you can chain-cd through without any problems.
(Of course relying on external cd's like Paladin bubble or anti magic shell.)

#53 Ger

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:21 PM

I am not sure is it worth zoning to kill Acolytes before all adds are down.
Breath thread dissapear after Shadron death. After this his will provide only the immunity to Sartharion. Vesperon add will be respawned soon again. The only thing you gain by this zonning - you remove immunity from Sartharion.

#54 Pzychotix

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 04:46 PM

I am clearly out of touch with how resists work now, it seems that it no longer follows a 0-25-50-75-100 percentage scale.


Greedy goblin: Elemental resistance
I'm not sure on how statistically accurate this is, but I trust the blogger enough to give it a looksie.

#55 Vaccine

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 01:24 PM

I am not sure is it worth zoning to kill Acolytes before all adds are down.
Breath thread dissapear after Shadron death. After this his will provide only the immunity to Sartharion. Vesperon add will be respawned soon again. The only thing you gain by this zonning - you remove immunity from Sartharion.



Gift of Twilight - Spell - World of Warcraft

You also cut his fire damage dealt.

Not been since patch but I believe last patch tooltip for it was bugged and was saying shadow.
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#56 Ger

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 01:54 PM

Gift of Twilight - Spell - World of Warcraft

You also cut his fire damage dealt.
Not been since patch but I believe last patch tooltip for it was bugged and was saying shadow.


I've analysed our after-patch log. Gift effect is still boosting boss fire damage.
To be honest, i was nether thinking about this buff, because after shadron death breath become not so hard - maximal hit i've seen - 25k, and this is survivable and healable.

#57 Habba

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 03:18 PM

Gift of Twilight - Spell - World of Warcraft

You also cut his fire damage dealt.

Not been since patch but I believe last patch tooltip for it was bugged and was saying shadow.


This is true. It originally stated shadow on the tool tip but, it still increased the fire damage from the breath.

I can confirm that Guardian Spirit is working just fine for me. However, the interesting thing is I've never seen this bug occur. Personally I have been saved multiple times by GS pre-patch while learning Sarth-3D and Malygos. I'm wondering if it has to do with the time frame of the GS buff landing and the buff proc? My priests have always used it as a safety net and have it on me well in advance of an attack that will kill me, be it a 1-shot capable breath or straight damage.

Our cool down rotation is the following. We also always stress safety and keep 2 healers on me (the Sarth tank).
Breath 1: Barkskin/Survival Instincts
Breath 2: BoSac/Bubble
Breath 3: Guardian Spirit

Usually Shadron is down at this point but I do have 2 more GS to go through before we really start getting in trouble.

#58 sal

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 05:56 PM

I tanked sarth3D and the changes make the fight slightly more challenging.

1. No Twilight Dance
2. Hunter pet survivability nurfed for sacrifice
3. Changed some resistance to stam and found the extra buffer was not equal to the reduction

So, a little digging including the source previously mentioned - Greedy goblin: Elemental resistance

suggested formula - damage = 440/(440+resistance)

formula reworked - resistance = [440/damage(%)]-440

example for 20% average reduction or 80% damage: resistance = (440 / 0.8) - 440 = 110


Tankspot shows the same graph for resistance - General Resistance mechanics have changed? - TankSpot

On the histogram spread a 20+% spread in damage reduction occurs. NPC abilities and varying damage reduction occurs during a fight giving slight variance. Another interesting note is damage reducing abilities after resistance. I assume this means damage taken will be along the lines of..

base * %damage * talents/buffs/meta/abilities.

#59 sal

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 06:44 PM

I asked myself yesterday which flask, which gems, which enchants... avoidance vs mitigation vs stam vs resistance.

For this fight "enough" stamina is needed to survive a breath and that is a lot. Yesterday a full stam set - 52k on pull did not have enough HP to survive an empowered breath through bear last stand.

Sartharion3D - StratsFu

* Power of Tenebron: +100% shadow damage taken
* Power of Shadron: +100% fire damage taken
* Power of Vesperon: -25% [raid] health
[*Will of Sartharion: +25% mob health]...
* Disciple of Shadron: +50% fire damage
* Disciple of Vesperon: Twilight Torment: 2-3k damage taken when you deal damage; +75% damage from Sartharion's breath...

The pressure of the fight comes when Shadron and Vesperon are both alive due to how the abilities multiple Sartharion's Flame Breath on your tank, combined with the fact that your tank has 25% less health until Vesperon dies:

* Base damage: 11k-14k
* Power of Shadron: 22k-28k
* Acolyte of Shadron: 33k-42k
* Twilight Torment: 57k-74k


Surviving 74k damage is thus the magic number, something that gear will not do alone.


Reductions:

Protector of the Pact: 12%
Vigilance / Sanc blessing: 3%
Effulgent Skyflare Diamond: 2%

Resistance Aura/Totem = 130FR = 23% - ~10% spread = ~13%?

disc Priest/pally automatic shields on crit?

Tricks:

Roar of Sacrifice - 40 yd range - 30 sec cooldown
transferring 30% damage taken to the pet. Lasts 12 sec.

Hand of Sacrifice - 30 yd range - 2 min cooldown / paladin bubbles
transfering 30% damage taken to the caster. Lasts 12 sec.

Guardian Spirit - 40 yd range - 3 min cooldown
Increased healing received by 40% and will prevent 1 killing blow. Lasts 10 sec.

Barkskin - 1 min cooldown
All damage taken is reduced by 20%. Lasts 12 sec.

Survival Instincts - 5 min cooldown
Grants you 30% of your maximum health for 20 sec.

Mighty Fire Protection Potion
Use: Absorbs 4200 to 6000 fire damage. Lasts 2 min.

Resistance vs Stam

Flask of Chromatic Wonder - 35 FR 18 Stam // Flask of Stoneblood - 650 health.

Fur Lining - Fire Resist - 60 FR // Fur Lining - Stamina - 90 stam

Pre-Wrath FR epics vs. current epics Items - World of Warcraft

Resistance Enchants vs. Alternatives Items - World of Warcraft

Resistance Gems Gems - Items - World of Warcraft

#60 Ocnarian

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 06:26 PM

This is true. It originally stated shadow on the tool tip but, it still increased the fire damage from the breath.

I can confirm that Guardian Spirit is working just fine for me. However, the interesting thing is I've never seen this bug occur. Personally I have been saved multiple times by GS pre-patch while learning Sarth-3D and Malygos. I'm wondering if it has to do with the time frame of the GS buff landing and the buff proc? My priests have always used it as a safety net and have it on me well in advance of an attack that will kill me, be it a 1-shot capable breath or straight damage.

Our cool down rotation is the following. We also always stress safety and keep 2 healers on me (the Sarth tank).
Breath 1: Barkskin/Survival Instincts
Breath 2: BoSac/Bubble
Breath 3: Guardian Spirit

Usually Shadron is down at this point but I do have 2 more GS to go through before we really start getting in trouble.


I've tanked all of our 3 drake kills for the past 2 months, and basically what I've noticed is with 2 healers, I can basically keep myself alive without other players cooldowns.

We lust on the first drake, when drake 2 + 3 are active at the same time (1 shot range), I usually only take 2 or 3 breaths while both are active. If you ever notice 90% of the time, the first breath while both drakes are up isn't a 1 shot breath if it's right after Vesperon is active (5 seconds or so), I usually just let that one go, and eat it, if vesperon is up any longer it will be a 1 shot. With 2 healers I live through the first one easily, Breathe 2 I barkskin and again live relatively easily. Breath 3, I use survival insticts if drake 2 isn't dead by now.

Are you guys taking portals in after each drake? We only take a portal after drake 1 + 2 are dead, and clean everything up. Although this has become a little harder as of 3.0.8, it's still doable, your healers and DPS just need to pay attention and keep the raid up through twilight torment.




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