Jump to content


Photo

SimulationCraft for Hunters


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
214 replies to this topic

#21 Rokh

Rokh

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 137 posts

Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:05 PM

Marks should have 2/2 Rapid Killing, 0/2 Rapid Recuperation. Other than that looks good.
I'm seeing the best Survival spec in the sheet as being 0/14/57. Also glyphs are Kill Shot, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot.

#22 Neruse

Neruse

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 12 March 2009 - 09:23 PM

I get 7/13/51 about 60-65 dps above 0/14/57. Maybe I have an older version spreadsheet...

Edit: Indeed it was an older version.

I still get 1/2 RR + 1/2 RK as 67 dps over 0/2 RR and 2/2 RK. It seems the mana gains from 1/2 RR is enough to prevent needing AotV on the 6 min test. Even when I drop length to 5 minutes with zero AotV needed, 1/2 RR + 1/2 RK still comes out ahead.

And even with v85h, 7/13/51 is 63 dps ahead of 0/14/57.

:monocle:

Rapid Killing only provides a benefit at certain intervals. Even if you know enough about the future to choose 1 or 2 points, the gain of a single Rapid Fire is quite small. I blame the low value of haste.

#23 Rokh

Rokh

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 137 posts

Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:40 PM

The difference I think is averaging everything out or using the simulated results in the spreadsheet. I've moved to using that and simulating 30,000 shots and it seems like it would be more accurate than just averaging everything out.

I should have stated that in my original post, just didn't think about it.

#24 dedmonwakeen

dedmonwakeen

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,302 posts

Posted 13 March 2009 - 07:39 AM

T8 hunter stuff:

SV:
1) 7/13/51 (Resourcefulness reduces the cooldown of Black Arrow on PTR).
2)
3) Replace Serpent Sting glyph with Kill Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf. Furious Howl is now 320 AP at 80, 20s buff with 40s CD.

MM:
1) 15/51/5
2)
3) Replace Steady Shot glyph with Kill Shot glyph. Replace IAotH glyph with Chimera Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf.

BM:
1) 53/13/5
2) Add Multi-Shot, in rotation after Arcane Shot.
3) Switch cat with devilsaur.

Eh, could do this myself. Have to devote some time to fiddle around.


The bulk of these changes have been committed under r1800.

#25 dedmonwakeen

dedmonwakeen

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,302 posts

Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:15 PM

The mechanics of specifying a pet in SimulationCraft has been greatly simplified.

Using the following config (3.1 mechanics)
#!simcraft

optimal_raid=1

Globals_T8.simcraft

Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Cat           summon_pet=cat
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Devilsaur     summon_pet=devilsaur
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Raptor        summon_pet=raptor
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Wind_Serpent  summon_pet=wind_serpent
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Wolf          summon_pet=wolf

Results in
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.0 (iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
  28356 100.0%  Raid
   5896  20.8%  BM_Wolf
   5876  20.7%  BM_Devilsaur
   5783  20.4%  BM_Raptor
   5713  20.1%  BM_Cat
   5138  18.1%  BM_Wind_Serpent

Player=BM_Cat  DPS=5713.2 (Error=+/-6.1 Range=+/-289)  DPR=31.5  RPS=181.2/140.5  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3220| 8%  DPET= 1952  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2124  Crit= 4930| 5852|39.1%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9078| 2%  DPET= 5500  DPR=  26.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5992  Crit=13930|16690|38.9%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3057| 4%  DPET= 1853  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2007  Crit= 4649| 5426|39.7%
    ranged                Count=178.5| 1.6sec  DPE= 2462|27%  DPET= 1536  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1734  Crit= 3580| 4244|39.5%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3154| 3%  DPET= 1912  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=649
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2098|10%  DPET= 1271  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1379  Crit= 3200| 3736|39.5%
   cat
    claw                  Count=138.8| 2.1sec  DPE= 1237|10%  DPET=  750  DPR=  49.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 828  Crit= 1684| 4066|51.6%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.9| 0.8sec  DPE= 1327|30%  DPET= 1727  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1107  Crit= 2209| 3671|30.0%  Glance= 829|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    rake                  Count= 35.1| 8.3sec  DPE= 1732| 4%  DPET= 1050  DPR=  86.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 681  Crit= 1416| 3461|52.7%  Dodge=3.9%  TickCount=67  Tick=364

Player=BM_Devilsaur  DPS=5876.0 (Error=+/-6.4 Range=+/-315)  DPR=32.4  RPS=181.2/140.2  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.1| 6.7sec  DPE= 3242| 8%  DPET= 1965  DPR=  13.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2126  Crit= 4929| 5852|39.8%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9283| 2%  DPET= 5625  DPR=  26.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6010  Crit=14015|17311|40.9%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3044| 4%  DPET= 1845  DPR=   7.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2008  Crit= 4658| 5426|39.1%
    ranged                Count=178.4| 1.6sec  DPE= 2466|26%  DPET= 1538  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1735  Crit= 3581| 4244|39.6%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3164| 3%  DPET= 1918  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=650
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2100|10%  DPET= 1273  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1379  Crit= 3199| 3736|39.6%
   devilsaur
    bite                  Count=138.8| 2.1sec  DPE= 1361|11%  DPET=  825  DPR=  54.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 908  Crit= 1849| 4432|52.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.8| 0.8sec  DPE= 1447|32%  DPET= 1883  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1207  Crit= 2408| 4002|30.1%  Glance= 903|24.1%  Dodge=4.0%
    monstrous_bite        Count= 35.1| 8.3sec  DPE= 1228| 3%  DPET=  744  DPR=  61.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 806  Crit= 1685| 4156|51.6%  Dodge=4.0%

Player=BM_Raptor  DPS=5783.2 (Error=+/-7.0 Range=+/-386)  DPR=31.9  RPS=181.2/140.1  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3228| 8%  DPET= 1956  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2126  Crit= 4935| 5852|39.3%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9170| 2%  DPET= 5560  DPR=  26.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5986  Crit=13936|17311|40.1%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3064| 4%  DPET= 1857  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2010  Crit= 4655| 5426|39.9%
    ranged                Count=178.4| 1.6sec  DPE= 2469|27%  DPET= 1540  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1735  Crit= 3583| 4244|39.7%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3158| 3%  DPET= 1914  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=650
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2100|10%  DPET= 1273  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1380  Crit= 3203| 3736|39.5%
   raptor
    claw                  Count=166.9| 1.7sec  DPE= 1287|13%  DPET=  780  DPR=  51.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 858  Crit= 1752| 4379|51.9%  Dodge=4.1%
    melee                 Count=372.8| 0.8sec  DPE= 1380|31%  DPET= 1795  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1149  Crit= 2299| 4038|30.1%  Glance= 861|23.9%  Dodge=4.0%
    savage_rend           Count=  7.0|43.0sec  DPE= 2264| 1%  DPET= 1373  DPR= 113.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 716  Crit= 1600| 3560|49.3%  Dodge=3.6%  TickCount=20  Tick=394

Player=BM_Wind_Serpent  DPS=5137.8 (Error=+/-5.7 Range=+/-269)  DPR=28.3  RPS=181.3/140.5  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3228| 9%  DPET= 1956  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2124  Crit= 4930| 5488|39.4%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.2sec  DPE= 9056| 2%  DPET= 5488  DPR=  26.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5940  Crit=13798|16148|39.7%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.5sec  DPE= 3058| 5%  DPET= 1853  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2008  Crit= 4656| 5135|39.7%
    ranged                Count=178.7| 1.6sec  DPE= 2459|30%  DPET= 1536  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1730  Crit= 3572| 3976|39.6%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3152| 4%  DPET= 1911  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=649
    steady_shot           Count= 81.5| 3.4sec  DPE= 2112|12%  DPET= 1280  DPR=   8.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1385  Crit= 3209| 3576|39.9%
   wind_serpent
    bite                  Count=125.0| 2.3sec  DPE= 1045| 9%  DPET=  634  DPR=  61.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 735  Crit= 1490| 3292|45.1%  Dodge=4.1%
    lightning_breath      Count= 35.5| 8.2sec  DPE=  323| 1%  DPET=  217  DPR=  24.4  Miss=4.1%  Hit= 337
    melee                 Count=370.1| 0.8sec  DPE= 1051|26%  DPET= 1358  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 948  Crit= 1895| 2759|20.9%  Glance= 711|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    wolverine_bite        Count= 17.3|15.8sec  DPE= 1710| 2%  DPET= 1037  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1159  Crit= 2351| 5200|46.2%

Player=BM_Wolf  DPS=5895.9 (Error=+/-6.5 Range=+/-331)  DPR=32.5  RPS=181.2/140.4  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3305| 8%  DPET= 2003  DPR=  13.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2173  Crit= 5040| 6041|39.5%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.2sec  DPE= 9328| 2%  DPET= 5656  DPR=  26.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6126  Crit=14226|17292|39.5%
    multi_shot            Count= 23.0|12.4sec  DPE= 3127| 4%  DPET= 1895  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2048  Crit= 4753| 5576|39.9%
    ranged                Count=178.3| 1.6sec  DPE= 2522|27%  DPET= 1572  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1774  Crit= 3666| 4383|39.5%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3209| 3%  DPET= 1945  DPR=   7.4  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=661
    steady_shot           Count= 81.3| 3.4sec  DPE= 2127|10%  DPET= 1289  DPR=   8.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1400  Crit= 3245| 3819|39.4%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=173.4| 1.7sec  DPE= 1317|14%  DPET=  798  DPR=  52.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 879  Crit= 1793| 4391|51.8%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.9| 0.8sec  DPE= 1425|31%  DPET= 1854  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1187  Crit= 2373| 4034|30.1%  Glance= 891|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%

Gains:

    BM_Cat:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13769.6
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3121.6
        viper_aspect_shot=8189.5

    BM_Devilsaur:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13747.2
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3105.2
        viper_aspect_shot=8130.6

    BM_Raptor:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13776.3
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3084.8
        viper_aspect_shot=8098.9

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13791.1
        replenishment=9985.5
        roar_of_recovery=3992.9
        viper_aspect_passive=1983.9
        viper_aspect_shot=5302.0

    BM_Wolf:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13809.3
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3111.0
        viper_aspect_shot=8114.6

Procs:

    BM_Cat:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.4|2.1sec

    BM_Devilsaur:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.2|2.1sec

    BM_Raptor:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.7|42.5sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.5|2.1sec

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.7|2.1sec

    BM_Wolf:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.8|2.1sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : improved_scorch
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt
        100.0% : mangle
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath
        100.0% : winters_chill

    BM_Cat:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.9% : frenzy
        51.2% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Devilsaur:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.8% : frenzy
        50.8% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
        94.4% : monstrous_bite
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Raptor:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.8% : frenzy
        51.0% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        35.8% : savage_rend

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
         3.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        96.3% : frenzy
        51.7% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.1% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Wolf:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.9% : frenzy
        71.2% : furious_howl
        50.6% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.1% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

Waiting:
     0.0% : BM_Cat
     0.0% : BM_Devilsaur
     0.0% : BM_Raptor
     0.0% : BM_Wind_Serpent
     0.0% : BM_Wolf

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 8357873
  MaxEventQueue = 85
  SimSeconds    = 287132
  CpuSeconds    = 9
  SpeedUp       = 31904

The configs can be viewed from the trunk of the SVN repository: simulationcraft - Revision 1884: /trunk

#26 Midnight

Midnight

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 378 posts

Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:02 PM

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?
FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

#27 dedmonwakeen

dedmonwakeen

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,302 posts

Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:21 PM

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?


After much experimentation with the sim, the first order effects of "damge-per-execute-time" is pretty obvious, so that generates the initial priority list. As you mention, it gets interesting when something in the priority list is "almost" ready. In general, it is very rare that waiting provides a real noticeable benefit. (This is true across most classes/actions.)

However, Explosive Shot is one of those rare examples. In the trunk right now, ES will never over-write itself and the AI will never delay SS in favor of waiting. However, I do know that the Hunter dev has a "wait" action coded up in his sandbox that he is experimenting with.

#28 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:30 AM

I had completely missed the activity on this thread, sorry about that.

I did experiment a bit with that wait action, but my initial impression was that the added dps was so small that it disappeared in the general noise of the RNG so I never polished up the code to commit it. Hopefully I'll get around to it One Of These Days.

Note that we're not trying to simulate trap dancing so the number of LnL procs is pretty low.

And to clarify dedmon's post, simcraft itself doesn't do the prioritization, that's done by the actions list in the profiles. You can set up different profiles with different shot prioritization schemes.

#29 Dargonaut

Dargonaut

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 15 April 2009 - 05:34 AM

I may be confused about how calculate_scale_factors works, but shouldn't it return zero for hit rating if hit capped?

#30 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:55 AM

No, for stats that have caps it removes points and checks how much dps you lose.

#31 Starfox

Starfox

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 578 posts

Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:27 AM

Latest source has PTR 3.1.3 changes in, as always, just patch=3.1.3 to do your runs with PTR changes.
I hope we'll get a release out soon when all classes have their PTR changes in.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
3/3 IHM, 1/3 ISS, 0/3 IBarr
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7328 100.0%  Raid
   7333  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7333.3 (Error=+/-3.5 Range=+/-655)  DPR=40.5  RS=181.1/152.6  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5299| 6%  DPET= 3212  DPR=  17.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2903  Crit= 7231|10635|55.4%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4746| 9%  DPET= 2876  DPR=  19.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2521  Crit= 6269| 8191|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4832| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3030  Crit= 6250| 6935|56.0%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 7000| 9%  DPET= 4242  DPR=  15.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3826  Crit= 9516|12309|55.8%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14574| 4%  DPET= 8833  DPR=  41.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8010  Crit=19865|27095|55.4%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=243  Tick=721
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3496|25%  DPET= 1840  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2199  Crit= 4543| 6106|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=91321| 4%  DPET=55337  DPR= 201.1  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=923
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1945| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1103  Crit= 2627| 3416|55.3%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3467|12%  DPET= 2081  DPR=  18.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1841  Crit= 4584| 5951|59.3%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.1sec  DPE= 3840| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2420  Crit= 4992| 5679|55.2%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  648| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6352.5  (overflow=2.8%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20488.0  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=8972.4  (overflow=17.8%)
        replenishment=9940.5  (overflow=2.6%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.84sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.0|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.65sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|38.77sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.97sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.2% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         4.0% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.3% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22367571
  MaxEventQueue = 20
  TargetHealth  = 2194442
  SimSeconds    = 2999987
  CpuSeconds    = 20.812
  SpeedUp       = 144147

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000282 Range=1.000000 Gauss=0.999931

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
0/3 IHM, 3/3 ISS, 1/3 IBarr
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7288 100.0%  Raid
   7294  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7293.6 (Error=+/-3.5 Range=+/-650)  DPR=40.5  RS=180.1/152.9  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5434| 6%  DPET= 3293  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2888  Crit= 7191|10517|59.2%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4739| 9%  DPET= 2872  DPR=  19.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2516  Crit= 6258| 8086|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4767| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2995  Crit= 6176| 6862|55.7%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 6965| 9%  DPET= 4221  DPR=  15.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3813  Crit= 9486|12157|55.6%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14293| 4%  DPET= 8662  DPR=  40.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=7875  Crit=19570|26730|54.9%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=243  Tick=725
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3448|25%  DPET= 1815  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2168  Crit= 4478| 6031|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=90232| 4%  DPET=54670  DPR= 198.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=912
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1921| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1087  Crit= 2590| 3372|55.4%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3438|12%  DPET= 2063  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1825  Crit= 4542| 5901|59.4%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.1sec  DPE= 3791| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2386  Crit= 4922| 5609|55.4%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  647| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6371.9  (overflow=2.5%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20499.8  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=8980.5  (overflow=17.7%)
        replenishment=9971.2  (overflow=2.3%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.84sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.1|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.66sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|39.11sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.93sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.4% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
        11.4% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.1% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22446244
  MaxEventQueue = 21
  TargetHealth  = 2182712
  SimSeconds    = 2999771
  CpuSeconds    = 21.235
  SpeedUp       = 141265

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000351 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000029

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
0/3 IHM, 1/3 ISS, 3/3 IBarr
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7313 100.0%  Raid
   7319  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7318.5 (Error=+/-3.4 Range=+/-684)  DPR=40.3  RS=181.6/153.0  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5741| 6%  DPET= 3480  DPR=  19.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2866  Crit= 7141|10517|67.3%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4677| 9%  DPET= 2834  DPR=  18.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2483  Crit= 6176| 8086|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4760| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2994  Crit= 6177| 6862|55.5%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 6899| 9%  DPET= 4181  DPR=  15.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3770  Crit= 9382|12157|55.7%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14383| 4%  DPET= 8715  DPR=  40.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=7879  Crit=19568|26730|55.6%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=244  Tick=741
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3447|25%  DPET= 1814  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2168  Crit= 4478| 6031|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=90258| 4%  DPET=54691  DPR= 198.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=912
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1918| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1087  Crit= 2588| 3372|55.4%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3435|12%  DPET= 2062  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1825  Crit= 4541| 5901|59.3%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.2sec  DPE= 3795| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2385  Crit= 4922| 5609|55.6%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.1| 1.2sec  DPE=  647| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6376.7  (overflow=2.5%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20508.7  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=9004.4  (overflow=17.5%)
        replenishment=9978.1  (overflow=2.3%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.85sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.1|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.70sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|39.11sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.99sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.3% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         3.9% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.1% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22419643
  MaxEventQueue = 20
  TargetHealth  = 2190113
  SimSeconds    = 3000699
  CpuSeconds    = 21.234
  SpeedUp       = 141316

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000192 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000031

So if you are the only hunter Imp.HuntersMark wins, no brainer if their are additional SV/BM hunters. Only problem is with 2+ MM hunters, as all others wasted their points in IHM. Would be nice to get something passive on the talent that only the hunter itself benefits, like with other raidbuff talents from other classes (Shaman Unleashed Rage gives them expertise, Warrior Blood Frenzy gives them some haste, etc.) so if there are 2 MM hunters, even the second one gets a benefit from his IHM talent.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

#32 Dralmoo

Dralmoo

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 289 posts

Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:37 PM

You can get IHM and Imp Barrage if you drop ISS, TSA, and SS for an overall dps gain.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 0... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss  DPS=7385.2 (Error=+/-3.4 Range=+/-622)  DPR=44.3  RS=166.8/147.3  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 25.0|11.9sec  DPE= 5833| 7%  DPET= 3535  DPR=  19.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2912  Crit= 7253| 9572|67.3%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.4| 7.0sec  DPE= 4770| 9%  DPET= 2891  DPR=  18.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2531  Crit= 6297| 7184|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.4|10.7sec  DPE= 4865| 6%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3053  Crit= 6297| 6984|55.9%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.4|10.7sec  DPE= 7006| 9%  DPET= 4246  DPR=  15.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3836  Crit= 9541|10792|55.6%
    kill_shot             Count=  6.0| 9.9sec  DPE=14688| 4%  DPET= 8900  DPR=  41.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8064  Crit=20041|26421|55.3%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=  inf| 8%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=nan%  TickCount=246  Tick=755
    ranged                Count=157.2| 1.9sec  DPE= 3530|25%  DPET= 1856  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2220  Crit= 4584| 6156|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=92516| 4%  DPET=56074  DPR= 203.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=930
    steady_shot           Count= 77.2| 3.8sec  DPE= 3498|12%  DPET= 2099  DPR=  18.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1856  Crit= 4618| 5985|59.4%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.9|15.1sec  DPE= 3887| 3%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2443  Crit= 5043| 5726|55.5%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1004| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.6%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  648| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 595  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%


You can get even more DPS using CS/SS/SrP glyphs, btw.
DPS Ranking:
  14770 100.0%  Raid
   7399  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-cs-srp-ss
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss


#33 Hagen

Hagen

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 104 posts

Posted 27 May 2009 - 11:20 PM

I was playing around with the new SimCraft release (pre 3.1.3) and I found something strange. I compared different specs with similar (in this case identical) gear and found a strange anomally:

Hunter_T8_00_15_56         Agi=1.54  Sta=0.29  Int=0.54  AP=0.54  ArPen=1.17  Hit=2.25  Crit=0.89  Haste=1.05  Wdps=4.07  Lag=7.28
  Hunter_T8_01_15_55         Agi=1.60  Sta=0.26  Int=0.60  AP=0.54  ArPen=1.15  Hit=2.23  Crit=0.94  Haste=1.29  Wdps=3.81  Lag=6.54
  Hunter_T8_02_15_54         Agi=1.57  Sta=0.30  Int=0.61  AP=0.57  ArPen=1.21  Hit=2.19  Crit=0.92  Haste=0.57  Wdps=4.01  Lag=6.26
The talent builds were:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

and the equipment was:
chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Can anyone of you explain the strange scaling of haste and weapon DPS or think of something I might have done wrong. Maybe it's just a stupid mistake from me.

Thanks in advance.

#34 Kharthus

Kharthus

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 144 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:38 AM

You can get even more DPS using CS/SS/SrP glyphs, btw.

DPS Ranking:
  14770 100.0%  Raid
   7399  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-cs-srp-ss
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss


What happens when you swap Aimed for SS glyph? The spreadsheet shows it as an upgrade.

#35 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:22 AM

Can anyone of you explain the strange scaling of haste and weapon DPS or think of something I might have done wrong. Maybe it's just a stupid mistake from me.

How many iterations did you use? Typically you need to run at least 10k iterations to get reasonably stable scale factors.

#36 Hagen

Hagen

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 104 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:48 AM

How many iterations did you use? Typically you need to run at least 10k iterations to get reasonably stable scale factors.

First I run 1k iterations, but confirmed with 10k iterations. The weapon DPS scaling evened out, but haste is stille the same. I don't understand why this one talent point should affects haste this way.

Hunter_T8_00_15_56         Agi=1.50  Sta=0.27  Int=0.54  AP=0.51  ArPen=1.15  Hit=2.26  Crit=0.89  Haste=1.05  Wdps=3.89  Lag=7.40
  Hunter_T8_01_15_55         Agi=1.57  Sta=0.27  Int=0.60  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.14  Hit=2.21  Crit=0.93  Haste=1.32  Wdps=3.89  Lag=6.59
  Hunter_T8_02_15_54         Agi=1.54  Sta=0.28  Int=0.62  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.20  Hit=2.20  Crit=0.90  Haste=0.56  Wdps=3.93  Lag=6.66


#37 Thrawn

Thrawn

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:03 AM

With the gear used in chardev you have only 5% haste. Adding 3% from Ret-aura you would need about 8% to reach the softcap (523 haste rating), after which haste offers significantly less benefit. The last two specs are using IAotH which count for 3% haste for one point and 6% haste for two points. So if IAotH procs you are at

8% haste -- 262 haste rating to reach the soft cap
11% haste -- 164 haste rating to reach the soft cap
14% haste -- 66 haste rating to reach the soft cap

I am not entirely sure how much simcraft adds to your stats in order to compute the scaling factors, but a value between 66 and 164 would explain the results since every point over 66haste rating would be above the haste softcap (when IAotH is up) and would be much less valuable than the haste rating used to reach the softcap. This would also explain the slightly higher value of weapon dps, because every haste point above the softcap increases the percentage damage of your autoattacks (and lowers the percentage of non-weapon-dps-related shots ES, BA, SrS).

#38 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:04 AM

That haste value goes down with more points in IAotH isn't surprising, but that it goes up when going from 0 to 1 point sure is. I'll dig around and see if I can find anything... Could you pm me the .simcraft file you used?

I am not entirely sure how much simcraft adds to your stats in order to compute the scaling factors, but a value between 66 and 164 would explain the results

We use +250. Shrinking that would need a massive increase in the number of iterations needed to converge, but we're working on some experimental stuff to combat this.

#39 Starfox

Starfox

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 578 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:13 AM

Regarding Haste: With softcaps you have to do HIGH iteration/LOW delta value runs. The default is to add 250 to a rating and rerun the whole sim, get the difference in dps, and scaling = DpsDiff / DeltaValue.
So it could be that with 1/5 IAofH haste increases your uptime significantly, because the proc itself doesn't give you that much haste, but with 2/5 the proc itself helps alot more in keeping itself up, so haste loses a bit of its value. Nevertheless a jump from 1.32 to 0.56 seems a bit big
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

#40 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:30 AM

Right, so if you don't mind doing a mind-numbingly long run, you could try setting scale_haste_rating=-167 (a negative value is probably safer than a positive and since your chardev profile has 167 haste rating, that's the max you can use) and run a gazillion iterations... You could try with 100k and see if that's enough.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users