Jump to content


Photo

[Enhancement] Rawr.Enhance thread


  • Please log in to reply
425 replies to this topic

#1 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:40 PM

Given I've started doing some work on the Rawr.Enhance module I thought it worth while to create a new thread to keep all the information about the work and questions and answers about the accuracy of the model in one place. I thought it best to do this rather than polluting the EnhSim thread, where whilst there is a degree of cross-over I felt separation was better.

Model progress :

The model as it stands has a lot of old lvl 70 stuff in it still. I'd like some assistance in digging out the right base values and testing the internal calculations if members here would be so kind as to assist. This way we can build a model to serve the purposes of the Rawr community as well as adding the EnhSim export to serve our purposes.

I am able to do some of the stuff whilst I am at work, unfortunately that means no WoW access to test things in game eg: strip off character to get some base stats. So it would be useful to have feedback from users who have such access, as typically by the time I am home my time is taken up raiding/guild management/eating/sleeping leaving little coding time.

I've got most of the base model stuff working, I need to clarify what the base melee & spell crit values should be though, ie: with no talents and no kit what is a lvl 80's base melee & spell crit percentages.

More questions and testing to follow as project develops. If you are willing to assist testing the alpha & beta phases please let me know here. I am aware that Toots Hepcat will also be doing a fair bit of work on the module, however having got the go ahead from Rawr co-ordinator to include the EnhSim config export into the model I was keen to get going faster, sorry if that interferes with anything you have done Toots. I'd love to co-ordinate better with you for the benefit of the whole community.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#2 Mindrila

Mindrila

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:40 AM

Well I don't know if you still need it, I unlearned all my talents and took off all my stuff:

Unluckily I am Master of Anatomy which grants me 32 Crit Rating, thus we have to substract something from the crit values I obtained.

Draenai, level 80, shaman:
Base stats
Strength: 121
Agility: 71
Intellect: 129
Stamina: 135
Spirit: 145

Armor: 142

Melee stats:
Atackpower: 332
Crit chance: 3,77% (4,47% - 32 CR (0.7%))

Spell stats:
Mana Regen: 45
Crit chance: 2,774% (3.67% - 32 CR (0.896%))

Defenses:
Armor: 142
Dodge: 3,04%
Block 5%

All values I didn't mention are zero.

I hope this is some kind of help.

#3 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:52 AM

Thanks yes that has helped. It confirms my own manual calculations as to what it should probably be but to see it confirmed is very helpful.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#4 Aximous

Aximous

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:01 PM

I can provide tauren naked stats if you still need them.

#5 OnosKT

OnosKT

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 111 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:47 PM

Saw your post in the EnhSim thread and just wanted to say that I am more than willing to help with testing it. Not sure how to get it though since the latest Rawr release incorporates what I assume is a wrong model (suggests stuff like str/stam gems) and your latest release contains only sources. I can probably get my hands on VS to build it, but if the Rawr.Enhance dll was available somewhere it would make it easier.

#6 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 04:01 PM

I am maintaining a thread at Some volunteer testers for Rawr.Enhance required which has a download link. I can update the initial post in this thread with the same info. The mmo-champion posters tend to be less stats focused and more results focused "End users". I'd anticipate that the EJ forum folks would be more picky little detail focused :) This should help the model reach greater degrees of accuracy, as I need people to test who can find picky little details.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#7 Mindrila

Mindrila

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

I can't promise that I'll be very active since I'm starting a new work in two weeks so I'll probably won't have much time left, but I'm also willing to test.

I downloaded the sources from the official rawr website and compiled it myself using Visual Studio Express for C#.
It worked fine so far, except the optimizer crashes but I don't know if that is a Enhance issue or a Rawr general issue.

Well I found some missing buffs, but perhaps I'm just a bit confused.

The Windfury Totem / Hastebuff is missing, Leader of the Pack / Totem of Wrath / Critbuffs are also missing. I think these are quite important.

But getting Rawr and the Sim on one level settingswise, the Rawr module is still quite off (using revision 32300) the difference was about 400 DPS but perhaps I missed something somewhere. All those checkboxes are making me dizzy ;)

#8 Santorayo

Santorayo

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:18 PM

Are the weapon slots not finished yet or is it a bug that no weapon has any dps value ?

#9 Malan

Malan

    Mike Tyson

  • Allied Members
  • 29,830 posts

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:44 PM

Are the weapon slots not finished yet or is it a bug that no weapon has any dps value ?


Toots never finished the weapon module.

Levva are you just doing this export function or are you also helping to tweak the dps models to be a little more useful? If the latter, it's worth mentioning that we actually had an existing rawr.enhance thread but it fell off the main page of this forum. Some older feedback (that likely still applies) is in there if you want it. http://elitistjerks....wr_enhancement/

#10 Bellante

Bellante

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:47 PM

After brief flirting with the elemental thread, I came to my senses and moved my post to THIS thread.

Grim toll and Mirror of truth are listing their proc values as average over uptime in Rawr, presume it's the same for all proc trinkets. This is fine for Rawr's dps calculation I guess, but represents somewhat of a problem in doing the export to enhsim. Basically, since I have the two aforementioned trinkets, my AP and armor pen comes out too high. It's obviously not hard to fix manually, since the average proc values are listed on the tooltip of the items in Rawr, but I thought I'd just point it out in case it's been overlooked for the export module.

Edit: Also, the greyed out weapon imbues, with FT on the offhand, I presume is what is inflating my spellpower value. Still overvalues my spelldamage by about 43.1. Is FT adding too much spellpower?

#11 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:02 PM

Toots never finished the weapon module.

Levva are you just doing this export function or are you also helping to tweak the dps models to be a little more useful? If the latter, it's worth mentioning that we actually had an existing rawr.enhance thread but it fell off the main page of this forum. Some older feedback (that likely still applies) is in there if you want it. http://elitistjerks....wr_enhancement/


Thanks. I've been doing LOTS of tweaks, including setting up dps calcs. It needs a massive amount of more work yet though. It will never come out identical to how EnhSim does as the methodology is completely different. Rawr uses average values and estimated rates of procs to calc dps. EnhSim runs a simulation and actually does RNG rolls to see if something procced and repeats this for hours and hours of simulated combat.

Toots hadn't done much updating for ages. I was keen to get the project going so I've been getting things updated. I'm happy to take more of a back seat if and when Toots is able to contribute more. I'll check the old thread in the meantime.

After brief flirting with the elemental thread, I came to my senses and moved my post to THIS thread.

Grim toll and Mirror of truth are listing their proc values as average over uptime in Rawr, presume it's the same for all proc trinkets. This is fine for Rawr's dps calculation I guess, but represents somewhat of a problem in doing the export to enhsim. Basically, since I have the two aforementioned trinkets, my AP and armor pen comes out too high. It's obviously not hard to fix manually, since the average proc values are listed on the tooltip of the items in Rawr, but I thought I'd just point it out in case it's been overlooked for the export module.

Edit: Also, the greyed out weapon imbues, with FT on the offhand, I presume is what is inflating my spellpower value. Still overvalues my spelldamage by about 43.1. Is FT adding too much spellpower?


All trinkets, enchants, metagems, totems etc that have "On Use" or "Proc" effects, are treated by Rawr as adding to base stats. Actually the methodology is very very messy, sometimes they just add to AP or crit etc, other times they create a brand new variable to hold the extra values. I've proposed regulating this and tiding it all up as at present its practically impossible to deal with all eventualities they way its currently written.

The export however I wrote, and so what I do is reverse out all the direct adding of stats, so that the EnhSim config export SHOULD be base stats without the extras. What I haven't done at present is to check the buffs and reverse out them. So all initial dps testing should be done with zero ticked buffs.

The imbues : At present I've not changed the options to allow for more than one option on imbues. I feel its far more important to get the dps values calculated correctly for BASE stats + equipment and only then build up the various tweaks, buffs & options. If the basic calcs are wrong then no amount of adding buffs etc is going to work either.

What version are you using for testing BTW? Are you compiling from the committed source code? If not then nothing you are testing is up to date. I'm a bit stuck to release new versions at present unfortunately. The base code has been updated to include a whole new method of gemming, this changed all the models. I cannot therefore compile a new dll as it needs the v2.2 base code to work, so until the executable for v2.2 is released I can't release a new dll.

However to date almost all the export stuff is done, only the meta gems haven't been implemented yet. I've added support for tickboxes for glyphs only the Glyph of Shocking I've not implemented as I'm not entirely sure given the "flat calculation" method how I should deal with GCD calcs.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#12 Levva

Levva

    In Awe of Shocks

  • Members
  • 792 posts

Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:31 AM

Can someone check the validity of this calculation for Mongoose & Berserking. Its largely copied from the Cat model with a few tweaks. In passing I noted that the weapon enchants had largely been turned off for all of Rawr. I am not at all sure why this is, I'll need to check their forums for info.

if (stats.MongooseProc > 0)
            {
                if (character.MainHandEnchant != null & character.MainHandEnchant.Id == 2673)
                {
                    float whiteAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceWhiteMiss - chanceDodge) / baseHastedMHSpeed;
                    float yellowAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceYellowMiss - chanceDodge) / 3f; //TODO: Calculate this
                    float timeBetweenMongooseProcs = 60f / (whiteAttacksPerSecond + yellowAttacksPerSecond);
                    float mongooseUptime = 15f / timeBetweenMongooseProcs;
                    chanceCrit = Math.Min(0.75f, chanceCrit + (120f * mongooseUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAgilityMultiplier))/ 8333.333333f);
                    attackPower += 120f * mongooseUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAgilityMultiplier) * (1 + stats.BonusAttackPowerMultiplier);
                    baseHastedMHSpeed /= 1f + (0.02f * mongooseUptime);
                }
                if (character.OffHandEnchant != null & character.OffHandEnchant.Id == 2673)
                {
                    float whiteAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceWhiteMiss - chanceDodge) / baseHastedOHSpeed;
                    float yellowAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceYellowMiss - chanceDodge) / 3f; //TODO: Calculate this
                    float timeBetweenMongooseProcs = 60f / (whiteAttacksPerSecond + yellowAttacksPerSecond);
                    float mongooseUptime = 15f / timeBetweenMongooseProcs;
                    chanceCrit = Math.Min(0.75f, chanceCrit + (120f * mongooseUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAgilityMultiplier)) / 8333.333333f);
                    attackPower += 120f * mongooseUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAgilityMultiplier) * (1 + stats.BonusAttackPowerMultiplier);
                    baseHastedOHSpeed /= 1f + (0.02f * mongooseUptime);
                }
            }

            if (stats.BerserkingProc > 0)
            {
                if (character.MainHandEnchant != null & character.MainHandEnchant.Id == 3789)
                {
                    float whiteAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceWhiteMiss - chanceDodge) / baseHastedMHSpeed;
                    float yellowAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceYellowMiss - chanceDodge) / 3f; //TODO: Calculate this
                    float timeBetweenBerserkingProcs = 45f / (whiteAttacksPerSecond + yellowAttacksPerSecond);
                    float berserkingUptime = 15f / timeBetweenBerserkingProcs;
                    attackPower += 400f * berserkingUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAttackPowerMultiplier);
                }
                if (character.OffHandEnchant != null & character.OffHandEnchant.Id == 3789)
                {
                    float whiteAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceWhiteMiss - chanceDodge) / baseHastedMHSpeed;
                    float yellowAttacksPerSecond = (1f - chanceYellowMiss - chanceDodge) / 3f; //TODO: Calculate this
                    float timeBetweenBerserkingProcs = 45f / (whiteAttacksPerSecond + yellowAttacksPerSecond);
                    float berserkingUptime = 15f / timeBetweenBerserkingProcs;
                    attackPower += 400f * berserkingUptime * (1 + stats.BonusAttackPowerMultiplier);
                }
            }

Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#13 Drolfeir

Drolfeir

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 22 February 2009 - 03:35 AM

float timeBetweenBerserkingProcs = 45f / (whiteAttacksPerSecond + yellowAttacksPerSecond);

I was under the impression that Berserking was a 1.2 ppm effect (are we just going with a 1.3 average ppm for shamans? Is that how enhsim models it?). The mongoose section looks right.

I was looking through the rest of the committed code recently and noticed that the WFT haste is always included -- can you add that to the buffs section and make it optional? Apologies if this has been done and I haven't seen it.

#14 Malan

Malan

    Mike Tyson

  • Allied Members
  • 29,830 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:27 AM

In the 2.2 beta of Rawr that was just released when I load the enhancement model it only shows my current items. No other items listed in the model on the right hand pane.

#15 Katish

Katish

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:45 AM

I had the same issue but talking with Astry I got it fixed. You have to enable the gemming. Go to Tools > Gemming Template > hit the rare check box than Ok. You should get items than.

#16 Malan

Malan

    Mike Tyson

  • Allied Members
  • 29,830 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:49 AM

It seemed like it was enabled by default, that was the first window I opened and the rare gems had a check and was open. I'll check it again though.

#17 Katish

Katish

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:11 AM

If that doesn't work I know he just re-uploaded it with a couple of fixes that I had encountered. All the items loaded in the new version. It's still listed as the 2.2.01b so just need to re-download it if you still can't get items.

#18 Malan

Malan

    Mike Tyson

  • Allied Members
  • 29,830 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:11 PM

Levva maybe this is just a tooltip error, but the mouseover tips for Blessing of Kings and Improved BoK say that they add 2% and 7.84% stats. So BoK is correct, but Improved BoK should be 10%.

#19 Iku

Iku

    Von Kaiser

  •  Patrons
  • 92 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:51 PM

I guess Imp BoK is implemented as a multiplier to (base * BoK). 102% * 7.84% = 110%. But I agree that the tooltip is confusing.

#20 Malan

Malan

    Mike Tyson

  • Allied Members
  • 29,830 posts

Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:56 PM

Sure that makes sense. Definitely a tooltip issue then as it doesn't say that it's a multiplier. But that concept is a little counterintuitive and could be worded better regardless.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users